Campbell v Casamyor Or Guzman Not Khan

[Poncey]

Most important bit:

"The Galaxxy Warrior (32-5-1, 25 KOs) did say he would fight Guzman if Casamayor pulls out of the proposed bout, which will go to purse bids on May 27, and the WBO request that he do so instead of the number one contender for the title, Britain's Amir Khan."

http://www.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Ot ... le/boxing/

The more interviews I read with Nate, the more I like him.

[stujones]

What is the odds that Khan will have to fight another eliminator fight! I did notice that Khan vs Kirstjansen wasn't ever labelled a final eliminator.

[Autobarn]

Personally, I think why not forget the charade? Khan isn't going to fight any top lightweight - he's more likely to make a mark at 140. He's a natural light welter anyway - all his pre title fights were significantly above lightweight & he's a growing kid.

Move up to an unfashionable division and get one of the belt holders at the right time/right place.

Khan can have all the right ppl, the whole British boxing system behind it but he's never going to go near Guzman, Pac and Marquez.

[Rumpole]

Personally, I think why not forget the charade? Khan isn't going to fight any top lightweight - he's more likely to make a mark at 140. He's a natural light welter anyway - all his pre title fights were significantly above lightweight & he's a growing kid.

Move up to an unfashionable division and get one of the belt holders at the right time/right place.

Khan can have all the right ppl, the whole British boxing system behind it but he's never going to go near Guzman, Pac and Marquez.

Bang on.

Though in my view Khan is probably more a natural welter not light welter. at 5' 10". with his build I doubt that he is a natural light welterweight.

He has been kept fighting at 135 since the age of 16 and not been allowed to develop into manhood. If he continues to do so his body will soon feel the bad effects much as in the old days chinese woman's feet were strapped as young girls to stop them growing. The resultant deformaties were horrendous.

The question then arises does he have the punching power to be effective at the higher weights?

By no stretch of the imagination is Khan a big puncher at Lightweight, reasonable puncher perhaps, but definately not a massive puncher. He certainly has speed and skill but if he lacks the punching power at the weight then most of his fights will be likely to go the full 12.

[black panther]

Na you dont need to be a massive puncher to score stoppages - I agree Khan isnt a big one-hit puncher but very few are. Campbell isnt - when is the last time you saw him ko someone with one shot? Khan does however have speed and good technique - if he punch with speed and with all your weight behind you, and have the skill to land regularly, you will get accumulation stoppages.

[Rumpole]

Na you dont need to be a massive puncher to score stoppages - I agree Khan isnt a big one-hit puncher but very few are. Campbell isnt - when is the last time you saw him ko someone with one shot? Khan does however have speed and good technique - if he punch with speed and with all your weight behind you, and have the skill to land regularly, you will get accumulation stoppages.

Agreed, IF he stayed at Lightweight. The question is, what punching power will he have at a heavier weight? Oddly enough Khan was 136.5 for the I.B.F. Intercontinental title, which amazes me as to how a title can be allowed to be fought at a catchweight?

The question has to be asked, was he fighting for a lightweight title or not? If so, why was he allowed to fight at 1 and a 1/2 pounds over the weight limit???
I accept that Drilzane was also over the limit at 138.5, what the heck is going on?

[The_Don1]

Na you dont need to be a massive puncher to score stoppages - I agree Khan isnt a big one-hit puncher but very few are. Campbell isnt - when is the last time you saw him ko someone with one shot? Khan does however have speed and good technique - if he punch with speed and with all your weight behind you, and have the skill to land regularly, you will get accumulation stoppages.

Agreed, IF he stayed at Lightweight. The question is, what punching power will he have at a heavier weight? Oddly enough Khan was 136.5 for the I.B.F. Intercontinental title, which amazes me as to how a title can be allowed to be fought at a catchweight?

The question has to be asked, was he fighting for a lightweight title or not? If so, why was he allowed to fight at 1 and a 1/2 pounds over the weight limit???
I accept that Drilzane was also over the limit at 138.5, what the heck is going on?

The IBF inter-continental title he won was at light-welterweight, not lightweight.

[stovepipe]

Personally, I think why not forget the charade? Khan isn't going to fight any top lightweight - he's more likely to make a mark at 140. He's a natural light welter anyway - all his pre title fights were significantly above lightweight & he's a growing kid.

Move up to an unfashionable division and get one of the belt holders at the right time/right place.

Khan can have all the right ppl, the whole British boxing system behind it but he's never going to go near Guzman, Pac and Marquez.

Bang on.

Though in my view Khan is probably more a natural welter not light welter. at 5' 10". with his build I doubt that he is a natural light welterweight.

He has been kept fighting at 135 since the age of 16 and not been allowed to develop into manhood. If he continues to do so his body will soon feel the bad effects much as in the old days chinese woman's feet were strapped as young girls to stop them growing. The resultant deformaties were horrendous.

The question then arises does he have the punching power to be effective at the higher weights?

By no stretch of the imagination is Khan a big puncher at Lightweight, reasonable puncher perhaps, but definately not a massive puncher. He certainly has speed and skill but if he lacks the punching power at the weight then most of his fights will be likely to go the full 12.

wow I have never thought about this possibility and its side effects. At 5ft10, naturally he might weigh considerably more and it could distort the natural patterns of a growing body by keeping him weight starved. Some people grow until the age of 25.

[Rumpole]

Personally, I think why not forget the charade? Khan isn't going to fight any top lightweight - he's more likely to make a mark at 140. He's a natural light welter anyway - all his pre title fights were significantly above lightweight & he's a growing kid.

Move up to an unfashionable division and get one of the belt holders at the right time/right place.

Khan can have all the right ppl, the whole British boxing system behind it but he's never going to go near Guzman, Pac and Marquez.

Bang on.

Though in my view Khan is probably more a natural welter not light welter. at 5' 10". with his build I doubt that he is a natural light welterweight.

He has been kept fighting at 135 since the age of 16 and not been allowed to develop into manhood. If he continues to do so his body will soon feel the bad effects much as in the old days chinese woman's feet were strapped as young girls to stop them growing. The resultant deformaties were horrendous.

The question then arises does he have the punching power to be effective at the higher weights?

By no stretch of the imagination is Khan a big puncher at Lightweight, reasonable puncher perhaps, but definately not a massive puncher. He certainly has speed and skill but if he lacks the punching power at the weight then most of his fights will be likely to go the full 12.

wow I have never thought about this possibility and its side effects. At 5ft10, naturally he might weigh considerably more and it could distort the natural patterns of a growing body by keeping him weight starved. Some people grow until the age of 25.

It is of course possible that, if Amir is allowed to fight at his natural weight, whatever that is, perhaps 140 or even 147 he will prove to have even greater punching power because he will not be muscle starved. Burning off fat to make the weight is one thing but burning off muscle could actually be reducing Khan's power.

One thing is for sure though, in spite of all Khan's speed and obvious skill, until he finds the best weight for his physique and build he will never be able to achieve his true potential. He certainly can't stay at lightweight for much longer.

[stujones]

Naseem could have been a world champion at Bantam, let alone at Super Bantam - I don't want Khan to have the same "what if" scenerio.

[Rumpole]

Naseem could have been a world champion at Bantam, let alone at Super Bantam - I don't want Khan to have the same "what if" scenerio.

Good point. But Khan is never going to be able to stay at Lightweight from 16 years of age, through his amateur career and continue to retirement.

It is clear that he is struggling to make the weight now, so the sooner he elects to fight at a weight suitable, and close to, his natural body weight the better. It is not a case of what if.

Khan and his advisors have a decision to make and the sooner they do it the better.

[stujones]

Naseem could have been a world champion at Bantam, let alone at Super Bantam - I don't want Khan to have the same "what if" scenerio.

Good point. But Khan is never going to be able to stay at Lightweight from 16 years of age, through his amateur career and continue to retirement.

It is clear that he is struggling to make the weight now, so the sooner he elects to fight at a weight suitable, and close to, his natural body weight the better. It is not a case of what if.

Khan and his advisors have a decision to make and the sooner they do it the better.

But isn't the Khan situation similar to the Cotto one - Cotto though will always go down on the record books as a two weight (at least) champion.

Cotto found it harder to make 10stone than Khan does to make Light weight. I don't think it is clear he is struggling to make the weight. He did 12 rounds solidily vs St Clair and scored a past half way KO vs Limond and Kirstjansen. He wasn't weakening.

DLH was never going to stay a career long Super Feather - indeed, part of the reason why he was rushed to fight and beat an average champion because he couldn't make the weight any longer. But he still got the belt. I think it will be a bit of a waste that Khan has managed to manover to the top 10 in all of the governing bodies and doesn't go for the title fight. Not necessarily Campbell - but someone else. He should have pressed for David Diaz.

[hitman_hatton1]

But isn't the Khan situation similar to the Cotto one - Cotto though will always go down on the record books as a two weight (at least) champion.

surely just a 2 weight beltholder.

[Rumpole]

Naseem could have been a world champion at Bantam, let alone at Super Bantam - I don't want Khan to have the same "what if" scenerio.

Good point. But Khan is never going to be able to stay at Lightweight from 16 years of age, through his amateur career and continue to retirement.

It is clear that he is struggling to make the weight now, so the sooner he elects to fight at a weight suitable, and close to, his natural body weight the better. It is not a case of what if.

Khan and his advisors have a decision to make and the sooner they do it the better.

But isn't the Khan situation similar to the Cotto one - Cotto though will always go down on the record books as a two weight (at least) champion.

Cotto found it harder to make 10stone than Khan does to make Light weight. I don't think it is clear he is struggling to make the weight. He did 12 rounds solidily vs St Clair and scored a past half way KO vs Limond and Kirstjansen. He wasn't weakening.

DLH was never going to stay a career long Super Feather - indeed, part of the reason why he was rushed to fight and beat an average champion because he couldn't make the weight any longer. But he still got the belt. I think it will be a bit of a waste that Khan has managed to manover to the top 10 in all of the governing bodies and doesn't go for the title fight. Not necessarily Campbell - but someone else. He should have pressed for David Diaz.

I agree to some extent Stu but through no fault on any ones part the timing turned out all wrong for Amir. He was not ready for world title fights when the opposition was easier and now he is not, in my opinion, good enough to face the current crop of champions for world honours.

If he is prepared to take his time and get more experience, who knows, but if he and his camp insist on rushing in for world honours, I can see him becoming dramatically unstuck.

I am still of the opinion that a full grown man cannot expect to maintain the same weight that he fought at as a teenager, at least not without there being some serious consequences.

I believe he would be best served to move to light welter at least, if not full welter.

[Autobarn]

I think the reason he hasn't moved up to light welter is because Rees lost the WBA title.

Kind of begs the question: are Brits just not interested in fighting good world champions?

[stujones]

I think the reason he hasn't moved up to light welter is because Rees lost the WBA title.

Kind of begs the question: are Brits just not interested in fighting good world champions?

Well I would like to see if Guzman bank balance is significantly improved in the last month or so. Why was Guzman making statements that he was ready to face Arthur and the Visa problems were just fabrication - and then all of a sudden he isn't interested in fighting at Super Feather.

Why not flat out say "I cannot make the weight" - there is no shame in that.

The record books of the brits doesn't bode to well in recent years.

Joe Calzaghe - Beats Chris Eubank (who hadn't won a meaningful fight in over 3 years) - then beats 43 year old Hopkins.... okay cannot fault Lacy and Kessler.
Scott Harrison - No A level fighter in his title reign. (Medina is a solid B level fighter IMO).
Clinton Woods - Only time he challenged a champion was vs Jones. 3 stabs at a vacant belt.
Junior Witter - Vacant Belt against a guy who hasn't won since.
Alex Arthur - World champion having not fought at World class.
Gavin Rees - Beats a guy who just won a title discarded by Hatton.
Enzo Maccarinelli - Again, champion vacates/retires go via the interim route.
--------------
Perhaps there are others - but can only really think of Hatton, Catley, Haye and Nelson who actually beat a champion. Even Carl Thompson and Rob Reid fought guys who really do not deserve the right to be called world class, let alone a world champion. You could possibly mention Richie Woodhall - but again he was OVER WHELMING favourite to beat Malinga.

[stujones]

In time (and soon) he will move up to Light Welter and I can see him at the end of his career (if he sticks around) being even a Light Middle and possibly Middle. He is definately going to be bigger than Cotto is now (he has the frame to grow) and Cotto isn't making Welter easy.

However, I think he stands a chance against the likes of Santa Cruz, David Diaz (too late for him now) Kastidis, and maybe even Campbell and Casamayor (not much left in either tank)... I think as much of a chance as vs Hatton, Malignaggi, Torress, and maybe even Kotelnik and Bradley.