Any career wrecked by inability to get fights?

[VoiceOnTV]

I'm wondering about quality fighters who's careers were ruined by an inability to secure fights. I know in the old days a lot of fighters were ducked shamlessly (see Charlie Burley), but I'm definitely interested in what posters here come up with.

[granberry]

Worst case:

SAM LANGFORD

Should have gotten his shot at the Jack Johnson's heavyweight title.

[jimglen]

Britain's Charley Burley; Scottish middleweight legend Bert Gilroy, the most cheated athlete in British sporting history!

http://search.msn.co.uk/images/results. ... &FORM=BIRE

[Robinson]

Harry Wills comes to mind as well.

[granberry]

. . . Scottish middleweight legend Bert Gilroy, the most cheated athlete in British sporting history!

http://search.msn.co.uk/images/results. ... &FORM=BIRE

Tell us more about Bert Gilroy.

[jimglen]

here's a great link, http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w0906-glen.html
Google him there's a good bit more.

[granberry]

here's a great link, http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w0906-glen.html
Google him there's a good bit more.

Here are some quotes from jimglen's site:

To know this man, Bert Gilroy's career and facts, it is nowhere near complete to look solely at his record, but rather listen to the words of the man himself, the equally truthful words of his gallant opponents and the recorded voices of those great writers who 'scribed' the events before us and for us:

Bert Gilroy on Jock McAvoy: "I was a strong favorite to beat him and I chased him from 1938 to 1945, with the crucial years being 1938 to 1943. McAvoy's rush-in style was tailor-made for my own boxing style and ability."

Jock McAvoy on Bert Gilroy: "They (BBB of C), won't let me defend my title and the bigger men won't have any part of me. I've been following the progress of the middleweight contenders, and I feel the Scottish champion Bert Gilroy is the one most likely to take the title given the right chance."

Bert Gilroy on Freddie Mills: "Most of the judges and reporters had me ahead that night, Freddie cut me in the first round, afterward in the eighth when he landed a bomb on the referee, a minute later the referee stopped the fight, I was ahead on points. He was the strongest man [physically], I ever fought."

Freddie Mills on Bert Gilroy: "Try as I would, I just could not put him away. He was just far too clever. It was Bert who got the bigger share of the applause, and well he merited it."

Bert Gilroy on Bruce Woodcock: "There was very little between us in our first fight, in fact I took the first three rounds, he was just too big and he would lean on me in close quarters, push down on my shoulders, and elbow my forearms trying to create an opening, he caught me with good uppercuts and short hooks. When Woodcock hit you it was like getting hit by a fuckin' freight train!"

Bruce Woodcock on Bert Gilroy: "I was sorry this second fight with Gilroy ended so soon, Bert Gilroy was such a scientific boxer, I wanted to learn more from him."

Bert Gilroy on Marcel Cerdan: "Cerdan was good, all right, but I know I could have given him a better showing if it wasn't for drying out [making weight). How would Cerdan have done if he fought the same big men I fought?"

Bert Gilroy on Don Cockell: "If he could have remained at light-heavyweight, he might have been a world champion. I was at the end of my career when we fought he was just coming into top contention."

Bert Gilroy on Randolph Turpin: "He was just starting out as a pro as I was rounding out my last few years, I was still in contention, and I couldn't get a fight with either one of them, Randy or Dick. Dick was there with me through the whole of our careers. Given the chance, I think McAvoy or myself would have been Britain's first world middleweight champions before Randy Turpin."

Bert Gilroy on Ernie Roderick: "I was the only top middleweight contender he wouldn't fight, as he was manipulating his way into the middleweight title scene, he was chosen over me to fight Ginger Sadd -- 1942, who I beat in the first place in a final eliminator for the British middleweight title."

Bert Gilroy on Bert Gilroy: "They shut me out! I probably fought more heavyweights than any British middleweight. I believe I am Scotland's longest champion, and I was widely reported to be British champion and a world champion if not for the war!"

[MOST significant:]

Jimmy Wilde: "Bert Gilroy is an excellent boxer and should come out a starting favorite!"

[Being called "an excellent boxer" by the great Jimmy Wilde is highly significant.]

Elky Clarke: "Bert Gilroy has everything that goes into the making of a champion: skill, stamina, and punching power."

[Robinson]

Some good quotes there. He has been in with some top guys at near all weights !


Thanks Gran

Kym

[dr_devious]

And lost to most of them by the sounds of it. Jimglen is related to Bert Gilroy so is a little biased towards him. I'm not saying he wasnt a good fighter, but comparing the what if Gilroy had got a shot to guys like Langford and Burley is a bit far fetched.

[jimglen]

there's plenty more info when you Google him... Jim Glen isn't related to the reports & pieces that were written 20 years before my birth.

[VoiceOnTV]

Langford and Wills are very good examples. I'm hoping for some more modern examples. James "The Heat" Kinchen might qualify. He was rated #1 at middleweight for 2-1/2 years without getting a shot. Then they set him up for an eliminator and changed his opponent the week of the fight. The opponent (Iran Barkley), who defeated him and took his ranking admitted later that he had been training for Kinchen for almost two months, so clearly he knew something Kinchen and his people didn't. Can you say set-up? Kinchen did eventually get a crack at SUPER middleweight, where he had Tommy Hearns on the canvas and lost a controversial decision. He went on to lose some matches where his heart just wasn't in it anymore. He's an amazingly honest guy if you ever talk to him. "Juan Roldan beat the cr@& out of me." he onced confesed to me.

[granberry]

jimglen,

Thanks for calling attention to Bert Gilroy.

For those of use familiar with who Jimmy Wilde is,

this quote has great significance:

Jimmy Wilde: "Bert Gilroy is an excellent boxer."

Jimmy Wilde was one of the best fighters in the entire history of boxing.

When he calls another fighter "an excellent boxer" that has great meaning.

[Woller]

What about a boxer called Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali?

He had some trouble getting fights when in his prime.

Woller

[jimglen]

there are a lot of great quotes & reports re: Bert and Wilde was by NO means alone!

Eugene Henderson, the same ref who raised Turpins hand against none other than SRR, Henderson's accessment of Gilroy states it all... all the Top reports, Frank Butler & Barrington Dalby, Norman Hurst, the great little Flyweight Elky Clark.

But by enlarge the greatest commment & evaluation of Gilroy was made by Boxing Legend, Broadway Charley, Charley Rose. Rose seen them all, managed or co-managed many of the greats, and he invited Bert to the U.S during and after the war, stating "he'd had seen the next middleweight champion of the world" and that he could get him on the Louis v Conn bout to showcase him in the States if he came along.

Fate is the toughest of opponents, Shame, but still no excuse for the treatment Bert recieved from the 'sharks' that controlled British boxing back then!

[HomicideHenry]

If I recall Jersey Joe Walcott for alot of years couldn't even make a living as a professional fighter, and had to work as a garbage man, mainly because he was so good, that no manager wanted to risk their own fighters records and reputations against him. Up until the Louis fight, Jersey Joe was basically somewhat of an unknown, though he was so good. He was just avoided, and had it not been for Louis, who knows we may not be talking about him today.

[Ambling Alp]

Walcott wasn't avoided, he just lost too often. He had no legitimate complaint for not getting a title shot until he did.

Some fighters that never got a chance that deserved it:
Jimmy Bivins
Sam McVey
Joe Jeannette
Holman Williams
Lloyd Marshall
Eddie Booker

[Nile4000]

Mitch Green, to a varying extent.

[Seamus]

Then there was a guy who beat Sandy Saddler, Jackie Graves, Beau Jack, Arthur King, Lester Felton, Willie Pastrano, Johnny Saxton, Johnny Bratton, Jimmy Martinez twice, Kid Gavilan, Ralph "Tiger" Jones, Virgil Akins, Gil Turner, Ralph Dupas and Wilf Greaves, without getting a shot at a World title.

[elmersalsa]

jimglen,

Thanks for calling attention to Bert Gilroy.

For those of use familiar with who Jimmy Wilde is,

this quote has great significance:

Jimmy Wilde: "Bert Gilroy is an excellent boxer."

Jimmy Wilde was one of the best fighters in the entire history of boxing.

When he calls another fighter "an excellent boxer" that has great meaning.

And some people want granberry out of this forum? I do not get it!!!

[elmersalsa]

Then there was a guy who beat Sandy Saddler, Jackie Graves, Beau Jack, Arthur King, Lester Felton, Willie Pastrano, Johnny Saxton, Johnny Bratton, Jimmy Martinez twice, Kid Gavilan, Ralph "Tiger" Jones, Virgil Akins, Gil Turner, Ralph Dupas and Wilf Greaves, without getting a shot at a World title.

Damn, that is some great quality of opposition. And he NEVER fought for the world title? I wonder who he was. I will look it up in the database.

Aaron Pryor had trouble getting fights, ESPECIALLY, at lightweight.
Mike McCallum too.

[elmersalsa]

Then there was a guy who beat Sandy Saddler, Jackie Graves, Beau Jack, Arthur King, Lester Felton, Willie Pastrano, Johnny Saxton, Johnny Bratton, Jimmy Martinez twice, Kid Gavilan, Ralph "Tiger" Jones, Virgil Akins, Gil Turner, Ralph Dupas and Wilf Greaves, without getting a shot at a World title.

Damn, that is some great quality of opposition. And he NEVER fought for the world title? I wonder who he was. I will look it up in the database.

Aaron Pryor had trouble getting fights, ESPECIALLY, at lightweight.
Mike McCallum too.

That was the GREAT Del Flanagan, Seamus....He should be in the HALL OF FAME.

[giacomino]

Hagler had a tough time getting a title fight but he eventually made up for it. Before there was Hagler, though, there was Bennie Briscoe. Bennie was highly rated for a long time but couldn't get the big-money bouts in his prime because he was considered too tough. Monzon finally gave him a title shot and beat him when Bennie was nearing 30 (Monzon was 30 as well). Bennie got another title shot a few years later and lost to Valdez, but he was past his prime by the time the best fighters scheduled him for bouts.
Archie Moore and Ezz Charles were two other fighters who were avoided and had to wait a long time for title shots. However, like Hagler, they eventually became legends

[dr_devious]

Walcott wasn't avoided, he just lost too often. He had no legitimate complaint for not getting a title shot until he did.

Some fighters that never got a chance that deserved it:
Jimmy Bivins
Sam McVey
Joe Jeannette
Holman Williams
Lloyd Marshall
Eddie Booker

Great list Alp, sums up a lot of the avoided black fighters who didnt get a title shot, not already mentioned on this post. Scandalous that greats like these didnt get a title shot

[VoiceOnTV]

Yeah, Archie had to wait an unusually long time, and Charles got famous at Heavyweight although his best years were clearly at light heavy. Somebody mentioned McCallum. McCallum could get fights, just not the ones he really wanted (Hearns, Leonard,etc). I"m curious about the Mitch Green post cause it did seem like Mitch had periods of great innactivity.

[Goodnight, Irene]

jimglen,

Thanks for calling attention to Bert Gilroy.

For those of use familiar with who Jimmy Wilde is,

this quote has great significance:

Jimmy Wilde: "Bert Gilroy is an excellent boxer."

Jimmy Wilde was one of the best fighters in the entire history of boxing.

When he calls another fighter "an excellent boxer" that has great meaning.

And some people want granberry out of this forum? I do not get it!!!

Don't despair, Elmer. The forum no longer wants him gone --- we simply have him on Ignore.