I say!!! ...Lay off Haye!!

[Loftgroov]

If I didn't know better, I'd swear David Haye had slept with your mothers...

The thread below on Haye is jammed full of rumours about him getting decked...claims that he is "chinny" ..."can't take a punch" and all the rest of it.

Exactly what has he done to piss so many of you off? I get the impression that if he was some plucky, salt of the earth, limited ability fighter who took the odd beating people would be far more behind him!!

Its indicative of the English mentality.

Here we have a fighter with huge talent, who has been knocked down (not OUT!) once in his career due to taking an opponent too lightly, yet he seems to be written off near enough by many of you.

"Oooo that David Haye...hes good,but when he steps up, he'll be clobbered I tells ya guv!" ...thats the most common line on him. The most common line on this country's top prospect???

I don't hear Enzo getting the same level of stick, and he HAS been beaten!!

So I say lay off David Haye, and wait till he gets BEAT before criticising him so heavily. In the meantime, enjoy what looks like this country's top young fighter for many a year.

[Guest]

If he was Lennox Lewis, non-Brits wouldn't mind criticising him.

[mrbassie]

Well said. Even if he does prove to be "chinny" I believe that's something that will diminish when he fills out a bit, he does have skinny legs+neck.
Anyway, he's exciting, sometimes too much pressure is put on a fighter so young, I suppose it's inevitable when there's hype so early on, that vicous backlash.

[Loftgroov]

I just think it's distinctly British....

"If you have someone good, pick holes in them and run them down. if you have a shitty little underdog, lets get behind him".

Well f**k all our crap little domestic fighters. Good luck to them in their careers, earning a wage etc, and I respect them for that.

However ....I'll stick with following the exciting prospects (i.e Haye).

[E]

I just think it's distinctly British....

"If you have someone good, pick holes in them and run them down. if you have a shitty little underdog, lets get behind him".

Well f**k all our crap little domestic fighters. Good luck to them in their careers, earning a wage etc, and I respect them for that.

However ....I'll stick with following the exciting prospects (i.e Haye).

Don't mistake critical discussion with personal attack.

I really hope David does well, is personable, approachable and extremely talented....but thjere are questions and we have the right to discuss them. It's not knocking him, it's juat discussing certain topics that are related to his boxing success....I hope he proves us all wrong.

[Loynesy]

Loftgroov

I like Haye (have seen him in both the amateurs and the pros on a number of occasions), he seems a top fella, but its a simple fact that he has been badly hurt/knocked out while sparring and fighting. I would love him to go to the very top of the game, but doubt how this can happen given his obvious flaws.

You say that people knock him and use Enzo as a cross reference: well they are coming from different hype levels - Enzo will never go higher than fringe top 10 in his divsion and the hype around him reflects that. While I think Haye will win a decent belt in a short but explosive career, we are being told he is the second coming of Sugar Ray Robinson, and he simply isn't.

[Twinkle Toes]

The only problem I have with haye, is he isn't busy enough.

I don't like seeing our prospects not fighting regular. Whats that all about?

[Matchfixer]

The only problem I have with haye, is he isn't busy enough.

I don't like seeing our prospects not fighting regular. Whats that all about?

Think he has been fairly busy. He was due to fight Swaby but it got called off.

Haye has always stated on the BBC that he wants to keep busy.

Also, finding suitable opponents is a problem as Haye, his trainer and numerous people on here have mentioned.

[hitman_hatton1]

come on its fair criticism its not secret there is serious doubt about haye's chin. he was dropped against a blown up super middle a couple of fights ago to say thats not worrying and worthy for discussion is plain stupid.

i want haye to make it and go all the way he's good for boxing

[dondada]

Not that I am comparing the two in any way, but once when a journalist put it to Floyd Patterson: "Do you know you have been knocked down more than any heavyweight champion?"

The reply: "No heavyweight champion ever got up as much either."

I'm not even sure whether the stat was right or not, but I like the answer.

Haye was badly hurt but got up and found a way to win. He's only had a few fights, let's think on.

[adamiw]

for some sad reason people feel the need to make up rumours about him. Lets see how far he goes. His punch resistance may not be the best, but lets noit make up stuff to back up our points.

[SWEET]

Loynesy stated..."the simple fact is that haye has been badly hurt/knocked out in sparring and fighting"........he also says he has watched David in the amateurs and pros.

In truth......Loynesy is talking out of his a**ehole. David has been stopped twice, both occassions on his feet, and dropped by Lolenga Mock, whom he took too lightly. He has never been dropped in sparring. Never knocked out.

They are the FACTS. So when you use the phrase "simple facts", make sure that the facts are correct.

[J]

The only problem I have with haye, is he isn't busy enough.

I don't like seeing our prospects not fighting regular. Whats that all about?

Think he has been fairly busy. He was due to fight Swaby but it got called off.

Haye has always stated on the BBC that he wants to keep busy.

Also, finding suitable opponents is a problem as Haye, his trainer and numerous people on here have mentioned.

yeah i mean he has eight fights in his first year how busy would you like him to be? Perhaps he could pitch iup a marquee and we could wait and take turns to receive a beating haha
In seriousness, I think the criticism does stem form the fact that everyone has such high hopes for David in being the new generation Cruiser and eventually heavy.
So if we praise him too high then we are biased cos we are the same nationailty, but if we point out any deficiencies then we are picking on him? Damned if you do.........

I dont think anyone has said anything nasty about Mr Haye , he is genuinely well liked amongst the boxing public and everyone wants him to be our next superstar in doing so people may well gaurd this wish for success by sensibly pointing out potential deficiencies they have noticed.

I mean the Mock fight is bound to raise some alrm bells but having said that these may well be dissipated with one performance where he takes a few shots and we put the mock fight down to a flash knockdown.
We dont know for sure yet though. One thing is for sure he needs to hold his left up higher!
I have nothing but high hopes for Mr Haye, and I look forward to lending my support fully when he is boxing in London. just my take fellas

[Loftgroov]

J - OK not "nasty" as such, but plenty seeming to be gearing themselves to say "SEE! I told you so" ...as if they pretty much WANT him to be knocked out or something.

(just to prove themselves right!)

[jamesmcdonnell]

I don't think anyone here has anything against him, he seems to be a very nice bloke as far as I can tell, very approachable affable character, and bags of natural talent.

Whether he's been decked in sparring etc, I just don't know, it's what he does in the ring that counts, and though getting decked by Lolenga mock may have been an abberation, you cannot expect it not to raise a few eyebrows.

All fighters are open to criticism, and being a big talent invites more interest and also more criticism. It's an opportunity for people to try and prove that they know their boxing in a sense, because if someone says early 'that Haye, never amount to shite' and he ends up getting his career derailed, they get bragging rights.

I would like to see Haye change a few things, and I'm sure his training team would too, but that doesn't mean I don't think he has talent. I just worry that having that left so low, will mean his talent gets derailed.

As for Haye having faster hands and more unorthodox angles than Enzo, not sure I agree with that one. Unlike Enzo, he does move his head though. Enzo is totally static in there, Haye I think is more naturally agile, but chooses to stand and feint rather than move around the ring.

[J]

agree agree agree!
I for one hope Mr Haye fulfulls his potential, he looks a natural to me.
keeping my fingers well and truly crossed.

[stujones]

I wouldn't necessarely say that Haye has recieved criticism here - its just some people like to keep their feet on the ground. I didn't post on a British forums when Hatton faught Magee, but I'm sure there were people who were labelling him chinny.

Haye has done nothing to suggest he isn't chinny, so questions will be continually asked untill he proves it one way or the other. There were certainly worrying signs, especially as his opponent was a lot smaller than Haye.

I think Enzo has recieved a similar level of criticism as Haye, maybe you think he hasn't - but that is possibly because question marks about Haye's chin is old news. People know there is a question mark, so it doesn't bode that much discussion.

[MightyWarrior]

Yeah I agree with that. I like Haye, he's a very exciting talent.
I don't feel the need to knock Brit fighters, I was always a big fan of boxers like Naz, Honeyghan, Benn etc.
I've never thought any of those guys had glass jaws ( ok Benn was a but vunerable, but that just made his fights even more explosive )
But I'm just being honest in saying it really looks like Haye doesn't hold a shot too well. Enzo as well.

Just an opinion. Doesn't mean he can't go all the way either: he's got huge talent and a big punch. That can take him far. He just needs to keep his guard up a little more.
Roger Mayweather would be a good act to follow.

[Loftgroov]

Do you rate Adam Booth as a trainer?

Danny Williams (against Samil Sam) and Haye (against Mock) both seem to have the somewhat cocky, hands kept low style...and look what happened to them.

And Noooo...I'm not exclusively blaming Adam Booth, but he is their trainer, so is he the man for the job in Haye's case?

When you have Nijinsky in your stable, don't you want Lestor Piggot riding.. not a trained monkey?

(and no, I'm calling Booth a monkey, it's merely a metaphor..)

[stujones]

Do you rate Adam Booth as a trainer?

Danny Williams (against Samil Sam) and Haye (against Mock) both seem to have the somewhat cocky, hands kept low style...and look what happened to them.

And Noooo...I'm not exclusively blaming Adam Booth, but he is their trainer, so is he the man for the job in Haye's case?

When you have Nijinsky in your stable, don't you want Lestor Piggot riding.. not a trained monkey?

(and no, I'm calling Booth a monkey, it's merely a metaphor..)

Danny was with Jim Macdonnel for his fight with Sam.

[MightyWarrior]

I couldn't honestly rate Booth as I don't know enough about him.
Hadn't heard much about him till I read Ian's interview last week.

Does Haye have a manager yet? I always thought that was a bit of a problem, as he seemed to be choosing his own opponents for awhile.

Haye came on line a few months ago, and talked about that loss he had to Twite, among other things: very intelligent guy, and very honest too.

I thought Jim McDonnell was the main man in William's corner for the Sam fight? Not sure I rate Jim as much of a tactician...

[E]

Loynesy stated..."the simple fact is that haye has been badly hurt/knocked out in sparring and fighting"........he also says he has watched David in the amateurs and pros.

In truth......Loynesy is talking out of his a**ehole. David has been stopped twice, both occassions on his feet, and dropped by Lolenga Mock, whom he took too lightly. He has never been dropped in sparring. Never knocked out.

They are the FACTS. So when you use the phrase "simple facts", make sure that the facts are correct.

Have you seen the Jim Twite stoppage? David was all over the place, and stopped as he was unable to defend himself.

How often do we see pure 'count to 10' knockouts these days?

The World champs stoppage was not that bad - Haye was just exhausted, but against Twite, he was wiobbling everywhere - as good as a clean knockout...

[Twinkle Toes]

Just to clarify my point about him not being busy enough, because I knew somebody would pick up on it. Yeah no doubt he had a busy 2003, but In the last five months, he has had 1 fight, and that was a one round blow out.

He hasn't fought since November 14th, which is nearly 4 months out of the ring. For one of our top prospects to be out of the ring for so long is a bit shite to be honest, and there is still no news about when he is fighting next..or is there now?

I don't blame Haye for that really, but maybe he needs to be looking at a promoter that can keep him busy, because it's not been a blistering start to 2004 has it, and that's my point.

The Swaby cancellation was a bit of a joke as well. Not very professional at all.

[J]

fair comment thanks for the explanation.

But dont forget the traditional xmas break in boxing schedules. I mean if hew was planning to fight swaby then that got cancelled perhaps he just thought right this is last time Im gonna have a xmas off properly for a long time.
Pure speculation but you can see how it might be feasible.

[Chambers]

If I didn't know better, I'd swear David Haye had slept with your mothers...

The thread below on Haye is jammed full of rumours about him getting decked...claims that he is "chinny" ..."can't take a punch" and all the rest of it.

Exactly what has he done to piss so many of you off? I get the impression that if he was some plucky, salt of the earth, limited ability fighter who took the odd beating people would be far more behind him!!

Its indicative of the English mentality.

Here we have a fighter with huge talent, who has been knocked down (not OUT!) once in his career due to taking an opponent too lightly, yet he seems to be written off near enough by many of you.

"Oooo that David Haye...hes good,but when he steps up, he'll be clobbered I tells ya guv!" ...thats the most common line on him. The most common line on this country's top prospect???

I don't hear Enzo getting the same level of stick, and he HAS been beaten!!

So I say lay off David Haye, and wait till he gets BEAT before criticising him so heavily. In the meantime, enjoy what looks like this country's top young fighter for many a year.

I wholeheartedly agee good post