Is Ali great or the greastest?

kevdeuce · Post by **kevdeuce** » 10 Mar 2004, 01:12

Great! But not the greatest. Fighters today are stronger, faster and bigger. Just like over the years peope break records from running to jumping. Athletes just get better and better over the years and if you were to have Ali in his prime of course he would be a contender but would he really be that great?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 10 Mar 2004, 06:05

I guess nobody will really know.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 10 Mar 2004, 10:02

I would surmise that Ali would crack just about everybody's all-time top 10.

My own top 10 is:

1] Sugar Ray Robinson
2] Muhammad Ali
3] Joe Louis
4] Henry Armstrong
5] Willie Pep
6] Roy Jones Junior
7] Sugar Ray Leonard
8] Marvin Hagler
9] Roberto Duran
10] Benny Leonard

J · Post by J » 10 Mar 2004, 10:10

too hard to do for me but great list. no Salvador Sanchez tho?
not picking just surprised.

The Keed · Post by **The Keed** » 10 Mar 2004, 13:07

kevdeuce wrote:Fighters today are stronger, faster and bigger.

But NOT neccessarily better. Why?

1) It's hard to be "bigger" if you have to make weight. That's what's different in boxing than in any of the sports you're talking about. The theory "bigger, faster, stronger" only really can work in the heavyweight division.

2) Fighters today might be "faster, stronger", but while they're concentrating on getting "faster, stronger", they're not focusing on actually learning HOW to fight like the old-timers did. There is quite a bit of skill that goes into boxing. Fights aren't decided only by who is faster or stronger. The old-timers simply knew their trade much better than most of the guys today do.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 10 Mar 2004, 13:08

J wrote:too hard to do for me but great list. no Salvador Sanchez tho?
not picking just surprised.

Sanchez would have been in there almost certainly had he not died at 23.

J · Post by J » 10 Mar 2004, 13:24

bennie wrote:
J wrote:too hard to do for me but great list. no Salvador Sanchez tho?
not picking just surprised.
Sanchez would have been in there almost certainly had he not died at 23.

fair enough he still had 40 + fights tho.....but accepted thanks

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 10 Mar 2004, 13:48

On this kind of all-time p4p list, I have Armstrong #2, and I can see how some would rank him even slightly ahead of Robinson. Also, while Ali and Louis were great *heavyweights*, in p4p terms it's hard to justify putting them ahead of guys like Pep, Moore, Charles, and even their fellow heavyweight Marciano, to say nothing of the many stellar talents the lower weight divisions have brought us whose names aren't on the above list.

The Keed · Post by **The Keed** » 10 Mar 2004, 16:13

bennie wrote:
6] Roy Jones Junior
7] Sugar Ray Leonard
8] Marvin Hagler
9] Roberto Duran
10] Benny Leonard

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:x :x :x

The Keed · Post by **The Keed** » 10 Mar 2004, 16:15

Sanchez was a great fighter, no question, but he simply did not accomplish enough in his (tragically short) career to prove for sure that he's worthy of the all-time top 10 IMO.

Also, I rank at least Pep and Saddler over him at feather, so I would imagine I would have to rank them over him on the all-time list as well. Then again, these "all-time" lists are a pain in the ass so I generally avoid them.

J · Post by J » 11 Mar 2004, 05:26

ok thanks its just interesting to hear some people do their all time lists on accomplishments and achievements and others on purely who they think was the best and would have beaten the other....for example many people rank Iron mike in an all time heavy list above Lewis, that doesnt figure to me ......
Im more with the achievment brigade rather than he would have sparked him or whatever....as per ongoing discusion on another thread bout ali and holmes, but thanks for the input gents much appreciated and interesting. 8)

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 11 Mar 2004, 20:01

The Keed wrote:
bennie wrote:
6] Roy Jones Junior
7] Sugar Ray Leonard
8] Marvin Hagler
9] Roberto Duran
10] Benny Leonard
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:x :x :x

I sadly agree.

$eif · Post by **$eif** » 11 Mar 2004, 20:08

HELL YAH :x ! ALI IS THE GREATEST

revporl · Post by **revporl** » 15 Mar 2004, 12:27

I reckon the calibre of HW champs and contenders in the period 1960-75 was on balance the highest it has ever been. The fact that Ali was ahead of the pack for most of this period probably does qualify him for the reputation of the best heavy ever. It is of course entirely hypothetical as there is always the "what if..." factor involved. Makes for lively message boards though!

Is Ali great or the greastest?

Is Ali great or the greastest?

Re: Is Ali great or the greastest?