Top Fighters Who Had Poor Defense

[Seamus]

I'll name just one to start, that I don't expect an argument over.

Matthew Saad Muhammad

[Robinson]

Holyfield at times showed a total dis regard to self preservation.

[Seamus]

At Cruiserweight, no one could hurt Holyfield, so at times he seemed careless about his defense. At HW though, he had some moments where his defense looked pretty tight, vs Bowe in the second fight and Tyson in the first.

[Jaywheel]

Arturo Gatti

[My2Sense]

Alexis Arguello

Notorious for never really being able to roll and slip with punches well, but his freakish height/range and two-fisted punching power generally more than compensated for that.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Interesting Thread. I think a good example is Gene Fullmer.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I don't see how Gatti qualifies as a top fighter. Anyway, for me, there's no going past Julio Cesar Chavez.

[Brute]

Rocky Graziano was always prepared to take a punch to give a couple back.

[Seamus]

Quite a few very aggressive fighters often ignored there defense. Frazier, Marciano and LaMotta come to mind.

[Jaywheel]

I don't see how Gatti qualifies as a top fighter. Anyway, for me, there's no going past Julio Cesar Chavez.

He was a legitimate world champ, so he qualifies. What do you need? By definition any fighter who has a poor defense is not a top fighter. The thread starts with Muhammad as an example, so I don't see what is the problem with naming someone who's been champ more than once in different categories and who's been 3 times voted for FOTY.

[My2Sense]

Quite a few very aggressive fighters often ignored there defense. Frazier, Marciano and LaMotta come to mind.

I think Frazier actually had pretty decent defense. That was one of his keys to beating Ali in their first fight... he kept slipping under Ali's punches and countering with hooks to the body. I think Ali himself was surprised by how deceptively good his defense was.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Quite a few very aggressive fighters often ignored there defense. Frazier, Marciano and LaMotta come to mind.

I think Frazier actually had pretty decent defense. That was one of his keys to beating Ali in their first fight... he kept slipping under Ali's punches and countering with hooks to the body. I think Ali himself was surprised by how deceptively good his defense was.

True, it's part of the same reason why Juan Diaz has been so successful, he has a similarly deceptive defesne because he's a high-workrate inside brawler, but the fact that he's always moving his head allows him to dodge most punches, which is why he actually is only 2nd behind Mayweather on Compuboxes +/- ratio for percentage of punches landed versus percentage of punches landed on him. In fact, his ratio is even better than Roy Jones and Pernell Whitaker's. The Nate Campbell fight seemed to change that a bit though, cause once he got cut and his eye swelled up he couldn't see a lot of the punches coming so his connect percentage dropped significantly from it's norm while his received punch percentage soared from it's norm... but I digress...

Ricardo Mayorga is probably one of the most obvious examples of a Top fighter with poor defense, the guy would actually stick his chin out and take punches from dangerous opponents just to look macho.

Lamon Brewster's defense seems to be a very weak point for him. He'd get hit by everything, so it was a good thing he has a great chin.

Jorge Arce's defense seems pretty nonexistant as well. When he was younger he seemed to slip punches more often and easily but even then and especially now, it seems like he tries to just walk through his opponent's punches to land his own.

[My2Sense]

True, it's part of the same reason why Juan Diaz has been so successful, he has a similarly deceptive defesne because he's a high-workrate inside brawler, but the fact that he's always moving his head allows him to dodge most punches, which is why he actually is only 2nd behind Mayweather on Compuboxes +/- ratio for percentage of punches landed versus percentage of punches landed on him. In fact, his ratio is even better than Roy Jones and Pernell Whitaker's. The Nate Campbell fight seemed to change that a bit though, cause once he got cut and his eye swelled up he couldn't see a lot of the punches coming so his connect percentage dropped significantly from it's norm while his received punch percentage soared from it's norm... but I digress...

I think an even bigger factor in the Campbell fight than the cut eye, was the fact that Campbell went inside of Diaz and whacked him to the body. That's the first time I can remember a fighter really applying pressure on Campbell and looking to put some hurt on him (basically, giving him a test of his own medicine). Most other fighters that I can remember looked to stay away and box him from a distance, including Freitas if I remember correctly.

[delisa]

Lew Jenkins

[Goodnight, Irene]

"He was a legitimate world champ, so he qualifies..." - Jay

You're automatically deemed a top fighter if you win the title? Please, that's nonsense. Primo Carnera & Hasim Rahman were, "top fighters" in your book, I take it, & you didn't simply use his championship status as one of several lines of evidence for him being a top fighter, you flat-out said winning the title automatically qualifies you as a top fighter.

Arturo Gatti was a good fighter who fought great. He wasn't a great fighter, & he certainly wasn't a top fighter. You're none-too-familiar with the sport if you believe him to be.

[Robinson]

I guess a top fighter could also be some one who was on the world or national stage...or someone ranked in the Top 50 or so.

Elite or Great are different to Top.

In any case...your all tops to me :)

[Goodnight, Irene]

The man lost against every truly top fighter he ever met. How many other top fighters can you say that about?

[Robinson]

me :)

[Goodnight, Irene]

me :)

Kym "Iiiiiiiiiivan" Robinson!

You're in a different sport though, aren't you?

[Robinson]

Im just an armchair boxer :)

[Jaywheel]

"He was a legitimate world champ, so he qualifies..." - Jay

You're automatically deemed a top fighter if you win the title...

THX for acknowledging my point.

U see I can take five words out of a quote and make it seem like you don't understand nothing IRENE. Quite easy. Now if you read what I wrote after, you would understand why we have the likes of Mayorga, Rahman and Brewster named in the thread.

So who do you come up with? Truly top fighters like you call them have good defense.

[Counter-puncher]

I don't see how Gatti qualifies as a top fighter. Anyway, for me, there's no going past Julio Cesar Chavez.

i don't agree, for a come-forward fighter i thought JCC was good defensively, good at slipping punches by the barest margin and rolling his shoulders, and he took a lot of the impact out of the shots he did take.
otherwise, how do you explain a come-forward fighter who nearly always landed at a much higer rate- often 45-50% than he took punches at- often more like late 20s- early 30s %.

[Jaywheel]

Irene will soon say Pernell Whitaker had a poor defense.

[Diamond WEAPON]

I don't see how Gatti qualifies as a top fighter. Anyway, for me, there's no going past Julio Cesar Chavez.

i don't agree, for a come-forward fighter i thought JCC was good defensively, good at slipping punches by the barest margin and rolling his shoulders, and he took a lot of the impact out of the shots he did take.
otherwise, how do you explain a come-forward fighter who nearly always landed at a much higer rate- often 45-50% than he took punches at- often more like late 20s- early 30s %.

Exactly. That's kinda what I was talking about with Juan Diaz. Guys like them and Roberto Duran are known largely for being tough, aggressive brawlers, but despite that, they all have/had good defense simply because they were always moving their bodies on the inside as they unleashed their barrages.

Speaking of which, Meldrick Taylor's defense wasn't exactly top notch, it was way too easy to draw him into a brawl with a few connected punches.

[Seamus]

Not prior to the Chavez fight. If you can get to see the Meldrick Taylor vs Buddy McGirt fight in it's entirety, it's one of the most amazing displays of boxing ability of the last 20 yrs. McGirt is a borderline HOF'er and he look's totally out of his league against Taylor.