Why heavyweights are bigger today

[Cap]

If you look at the heavyweights of yesteryear and compare them to the ones today, one aspect of their physiques should stand out and help explain at least 20 pounds of difference. Look at the spindly legs of old time heavies. Heavyweights today have huge legs by comparison, like tree trunks in some cases. From thigh to ankle you're probably talking at least twenty pounds of additional flesh and muscle. Put that on Schmeling or Dempsey or Tunney, etc and you've got guys weighing at least 210 or 215. Wonder what led to the increase in size?

Cap

[Robinson]

This is why

we as a animal are growing.

This is due to better nutrition (in many cases over eating) and
better under standing on food production. Our foods are much
more nutrient dense.

Plus we have better health care and less ailments which can
stunt growth from child hood as well as in the womb.

People also have a better idea of training and conditioning. People
have learned from the past and crossed over learning from other
sports.

Yes in principle boxing has been relatively unchanged, but at the same
time like so much it has progressed and grown.

Alot of the tubby HW's really reflect the society they come from.
Americans are notorious over eaters. A HW does not need to make
weight..so why bother dieting ?

[Diamond WEAPON]

As time has progressed there have been major improvements in health an nutrition on a much more widespread basis. That combined with modern food often containing growth hormones also has a little to do with the fact that people in developed countries are generally bigger in height and weight than their forebearers. That of course translates into the sports world as well as if you look at modern basketball, baseball, and football players they are clearly larger and stronger looking than their predecessors. Hell, just compare Lebron James to Michael Jordan. Lebron is clearly a more muscular, physically stronger person.

For instance, historically Mexican and Mexican-American fighters would only reach the World Class level at the very lowest weight classes, but nowadays and since the 80's especially you have guys like Andrade, Gonzalez, and Arreola campaigning with good success at the higher weight classes.

[Robinson]

Even in countries free of growth hormones and 'battery' meats have seen an
increase in populatuon growth.

Our diets are more protein dense. We eat more meats period. Also the
quality of meat and its yield is so much better. This has been achieved with
good cross breading, better farming and better feed.

In Australia we do not use growth hormones or meals, as we still have alot
of land where our animals can graze. We do however have alot of grain feed
lots. This has been the case post WW2.

In Australia the red meat industry boomed from the late 50s until the mid 90s.
It has slowly been replaced by poultry, pork and fish.

Since I have been in the meat industry (1986 as a kid working with my dad) I have
noticed the quality and size of carcass in lamb, goat and body beef change in
its averages.

This is a massive factor in how big we grow. We eat meat and evolve as inteligent
beings. Lets not over look the growth of populace as well. More people walking around
means that our average height, frame etc also goes up.

[Diamond WEAPON]

This is why

we as a animal are growing.

This is due to better nutrition (in many cases over eating) and
better under standing on food production. Our foods are much
more nutrient dense.

Plus we have better health care and less ailments which can
stunt growth from child hood as well as in the womb.

People also have a better idea of training and conditioning. People
have learned from the past and crossed over learning from other
sports.

Yes in principle boxing has been relatively unchanged, but at the same
time like so much it has progressed and grown.

Alot of the tubby HW's really reflect the society they come from.
Americans are notorious over eaters. A HW does not need to make
weight..so why bother dieting ?

yeah, plus add to the fact that even the best Heavies ever didn't look as cut up as their peers in the lower weight classes. They weren't fat, but they weren't totally depriving themselves, just getting in optimal shape without draining themselves. And I'd say that mainly continues today, except for nowadays they tend to have a little more fat tissue by and large than in the past and because they are naturally larger, think it will affect them less. For instance take guys like Peter and Maskaev. Yeah, both are a lil chubby, but both are also naturally VERY muscular and despite the fact that neither is a particularly quick fighter, it doesn't make a tremendous difference to their styles anyway, which focus much more on timing and power...

[kikibalt]

Because they eat much, much more... ...

[Diamond WEAPON]

Even in countries free of growth hormones and 'battery' meats have seen an
increase in populatuon growth.

Our diets are more protein dense. We eat more meats period. Also the
quality of meat and its yield is so much better. This has been achieved with
good cross breading, better farming and better feed.

In Australia we do not use growth hormones or meals, as we still have alot
of land where our animals can graze. We do however have alot of grain feed
lots. This has been the case post WW2.

In Australia the red meat industry boomed from the late 50s until the mid 90s.
It has slowly been replaced by poultry, pork and fish.

Since I have been in the meat industry (1986 as a kid working with my dad) I have
noticed the quality and size of carcass in lamb, goat and body beef change in
its averages.

This is a massive factor in how big we grow. We eat meat and evolve as inteligent
beings. Lets not over look the growth of populace as well. More people walking around
means that our average height, frame etc also goes up.

That's true, I didn't mean for the growth hormone thing to sound like an overwhelming factor in my argument cause it wasn't. I was really trying to get at the fact that like you said, our diets are MUCH more nutrient dense and humans in developed and even developing countries are getting a much more dense diet nutritionally, thus are bodies are able to build and rebuild more tissue more easily, leading to growth across the board for humankind.

The modern nutrition combined with 24 hour weigh-ins etc. is also a part of why it can sometimes be hard for me to compare modern fighters an past greats head-2-head, because while weight draining has been a common practice through much of boxing history, in the past 20 years it's become a much more precise and effective science. I mean compare someone like Willie Pep who was tiny and probably never weighed more than 135 walking around and was likely always close to the same in the ring when he'd weigh in at 126, to the modern top Featherweights like Jorge Linares and Steven Luevano who recently came into big bouts at 137 and 139 lbs. respectively, and despite gaining all that weight in 24 hours or so, looked perfectly healthy and capable.

[Robinson]

And that is what a good amateur background gives you...
the ability, will and knowledge of cutting weight.

One thing Americans are generally good at is cutting.
whether it be boxing, wrestling or mma.

[Borinken25]

Probably too much Burger King or Mcdonalds

[Diamond WEAPON]

Probably too much Burger King or Mcdonalds

So you're saying if I eat a Whopper every day for lunch I'll get Wladimir Klitschko's physique?

[Ezzard]

All the above plus pharmaceitcal enhancers...

[mrbassie]

I don't think the argument can be made that human beings are bigger these days as some do, I think that's nonsense. We can prove that human beings are built a little differently-for example taller, than they were several hundred years ago but we're talking a generation or two.
Essentially, heavyweights of today are bigger, in fact they're not, they're just heavier and that's because they lift weights and probably steroids has something to do with it also. But they're also slower and have far less stamina. I think if any heavy today had to fight at the pace of a Joe Frazier they may well collapse from exhaustion within five rounds let alone go fifteen. If you train to be fit you weigh less than if you train to be muscular.

[Ezzard]

I don't think the argument can be made that human beings are bigger these days as some do, I think that's nonsense. We can prove that human beings are built a little differently-for example taller, than they were several hundred years ago but we're talking a generation or two.
Essentially, heavyweights of today are bigger, in fact they're not, they're just heavier and that's because they lift weights and probably steroids has something to do with it also. But they're also slower and have far less stamina. I think if any heavy today had to fight at the pace of a Joe Frazier they may well collapse from exhaustion within five rounds let alone go fifteen. If you train to be fit you weigh less than if you train to be muscular.

I pretty much agree...

[Jaywheel]

I think our eyes are becoming smaller... therefore, we think that HW are bigger today. Hell, even Shannon Briggs looks bigger than 12 years ago...

[granberry]

I don't think the argument can be made that human beings are bigger these days as some do, I think that's nonsense. We can prove that human beings are built a little differently-for example taller, than they were several hundred years ago but we're talking a generation or two.
Essentially, heavyweights of today are bigger, in fact they're not, they're just heavier and that's because they lift weights and probably steroids has something to do with it also. But they're also slower and have far less stamina. I think if any heavy today had to fight at the pace of a Joe Frazier they may well collapse from exhaustion within five rounds let alone go fifteen. If you train to be fit you weigh less than if you train to be muscular.

All true.

.

[The Great John L]

I don't think the argument can be made that human beings are bigger these days as some do, I think that's nonsense. We can prove that human beings are built a little differently-for example taller, than they were several hundred years ago but we're talking a generation or two.
Essentially, heavyweights of today are bigger, in fact they're not, they're just heavier and that's because they lift weights and probably steroids has something to do with it also. But they're also slower and have far less stamina. I think if any heavy today had to fight at the pace of a Joe Frazier they may well collapse from exhaustion within five rounds let alone go fifteen. If you train to be fit you weigh less than if you train to be muscular.

Excellent post mrbassie

[Seamus]

The often repeated claim that HW's today are heavier, not bigger, is positively false. Of the top 50 Heavyweights in the World today, 29 are 6-3 or taller.

[granberry]

The often repeated claim that HW's today are heavier, not bigger, is positively false. Of the top 50 Heavyweights in the World today, 29 are 6-3 or taller.

Are they as tall as Jess Willard, Ed Donkhurst, Bill Tate, George Godfrey, Harry Wills, Primo Carnera, Abe Simon, etc etc etc?

[Cap]

Joe Frazier's legs weren't sticks either. If you look at old time heavies, proportions were very different than in the last 40-50 years. Bob Fitzsimmons was an extreme example. Standing beside Jim Jeffries, from the waist up they looked like they weighed about the same. From the waist down, Fitz looked like a middleweight. Look at films of Dempsey, Tunney, Sharkey, Wills, Baer, etc. Big on top with thin legs. If they had modern proportions, they would've weighed 20 pounds more overall.

Just weird.

[dempseyfire]

I don't think the argument can be made that human beings are bigger these days as some do, I think that's nonsense. We can prove that human beings are built a little differently-for example taller, than they were several hundred years ago but we're talking a generation or two.
Essentially, heavyweights of today are bigger, in fact they're not, they're just heavier and that's because they lift weights and probably steroids has something to do with it also. But they're also slower and have far less stamina. I think if any heavy today had to fight at the pace of a Joe Frazier they may well collapse from exhaustion within five rounds let alone go fifteen. If you train to be fit you weigh less than if you train to be muscular.

Bingo.

Our meat/processed foods and produce today are more nutrient-dense?? A completly false statement. The widespread use of pesticides, fertilizer, and the greater distance food is traveling (which mushroomed since the 1960s) is ensuring the majority of food the population is consuming en masse is LESS nutritious. The organic movement that's exploded in the past 5-10 years is a step forward but the megafarms still have the power and output.

Spindly legs? I guess the likes of Jefferies, Marciano, Louis, young Foreman were a bunch of stick figures Completly depends on the fighter's body type . . .the Klitschkos have very skinny legs for their massive upper bodies.

Sam Peter has so much fat on him it's disgusting. He's not any naturally bigger than Sonny Liston, yet Liston actually did roadwork and regularly trained, putting him at a cut 212.

[Borinken25]

You might not get his physique but you will weight the same in about a year no matter you height.

[dempseyfire]

Joe Frazier's legs weren't sticks either. If you look at old time heavies, proportions were very different than in the last 40-50 years. Bob Fitzsimmons was an extreme example. Standing beside Jim Jeffries, from the waist up they looked like they weighed about the same. From the waist down, Fitz looked like a middleweight. Look at films of Dempsey, Tunney, Sharkey, Wills, Baer, etc. Big on top with thin legs. If they had modern proportions, they would've weighed 20 pounds more overall.

Just weird.

I think your observation about the legs is just not true. Look at this photo of Oleg and Hasim . . their legs don't look any more skinny than a Sharkey or Johnson.
http://www.boxnews.com.ua/photos/1012/H ... kaev31.jpg

Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eisx8ek0l0g

[granberry]

PLEASE give 24 year old JIM JEFFRIES some steroids for his scrawny legs..

[granberry]

PLEASE give ROCKY MARCIANO some steroids for his scrawny legs..

[granberry]

PLEASE give poor scrawny 6' 6 1/2" JESS WILLARD (right) some steroids and growth hormones.