MESSAGE TO THE LOCKETT SUPPORTERS

[Deserter]

Now while I love a good debate it's very rare that I'll post something controversial on these boards. However, given the events of the weekend have vindicated the 'regulars' on this board I do have to say I'm increasingly f**ked off with the fans of some boxers who drop in out of nowhere, have a go at many posters for 'not getting behind their man', try to make ridiculous cases for how their man will win and then disappear, never to be seen again, when they're proven to be utterly wrong.
Look, I'd have loved Lockett to have pulled it off, but the reality is that this proved to be the mismatch we all said it would be. If you're going to berate people for not supporting your boxer, at least have the humility and good grace to come on here and acknowledge how wrong you were. After all, it's us, the paying fans (whether that's in person or through Setanta), who get completely ripped off by things like this. A match-up like this does no-one any favours, whether that's us, the credibility of boxing in general, or Lockett himself - he was quoted as saying he was hurt by some of the criticism surrounding this match-up but he justified it with an utterly p*ss-poor performance.
To be honest I'm sick of seeing sh*t like this - we said beforehand that Lockett didn't deserve to share the ring with Pavlik and so it proved. Saying Lockett would get a hiding had nothing to do with a lack of patriotism, just a recognition that he was way out of his depth. Some of the time the posters on this board deserve a lot more credit than they get - amidst all the bullsh*t and hyperbole coming from the likes of the TV Channels and biased supporters or camp insiders, it's one of the few places you can expect to see people passionate and knowledgable and who simply tell it how it is.

[Old bones Ian]

Well 'Deserter' you've certainly got the Monday morning head on.
And although i did put a case forward for a possible Lockett win, it was more heart ruling head, which does happen sometimes in sport.
I've only just seen the fight on 'youtube' , and it was a mismatch in the end, but i do feel that its importent for our boxers to test themselves against the best. Otherwise we end up with our boxers going their whole career winning the WBU titles or such like, and never taking the risks to show what they can do at the top level, this ends up for me ripping the fans off even worse.

[Old bones Ian]

Oh and after 4000+ posts , i won't be hiding when i get a prediction wrong on a fight.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

I hoped Locket would bring the belts home but I'd never seen him fight Pavlik was looking for a gimme, I hoped Locket would be a dark horse

[ALI]

It was the mismatch that 99% of us on here predicted it would be. As Deserter points out, those "hardcore" Lockett fans who turned up on here (only once in his entire career when the bright lights were upon him) should return once more for a round of appologies to all they had insulted pre-fight.

To Lockett's credit, he came to fight, did not wilt at the enormous challenge put in front of him as many have done in the past. He had a very good first round getting off with some good clean hard shots. When Pavlik began dominating from the 2nd onwards, knocking Lockett down twice, Lockett still fought game'ly. He deserves a lot of credit for that. As strange as it may sound, he's actually gone up in my estimations.

[Deserter]

Well 'Deserter' you've certainly got the Monday morning head on.

Harsh but true!
Should point out Ian that my rant wasn't aimed at you or any other 'regular' - Christ, I've got my share of predictions wrong.
No, rather it was aimed at those posters who 'drop in' to visit us and don't merely champion their man (which is perfectly fair enough), but then berate all those who don't sign up to their viewpoint, no matter how warped or subjective it is.
As for the match-making, I completely agree with you, but what's needed is a sensible strategy of building fighters through gradual progression rather than them suddenly going from fighting at a British level to facing a world-class operator like Pavlik... it just creates lambs to the slaughter.

[Autobarn]

I didn't like what Rawling said, when he mentioned that Lockett said if you've got nothing contructive to say, then you might as well shut up. I felt that was aimed at ppl who post on sites like BoxRec.

Well, anyway, even the harshest of cynics were pretty much proven right, that it was a fight that meant little (apart from further calling into question the rankings of the WBO and how Warren fighters can get so highly rated), provided little in the way of competitive action, exposed the shocking gulf between elite world class and WBU pretender, etc etc.

Brave but futile, from Lockett, and so on. He can buy more to let properties, so he gets something from the experience.

The biggest plus is that Pavlik will fight whoever his top contender is, that he didn't vacate so that Lockett could end up fighting Paul Smith for the vacated WBO belt, and that we got to see an all-business Pavlik take care of business and help set up a big fight with Calzaghe.

I hope Pavlik fits in Rubio, if he ends up challenging Joe later this year. Good to see an exciting fighter keep busy.

[Goz]

Good enough post Desterter, and you are right about the flood of posters that appear only to dissapear after the 'event'. Very poor form - stick to the Gary Lockett forums if such a thing exists.

[Lenny]

Didn't some of the Lockett supporters go over there and watch the fight? Maybe they could be given a bit longer than 2 days before they have to come back on here and admit we were right all along?

[Deserter]

Didn't some of the Lockett supporters go over there and watch the fight? Maybe they could be given a bit longer than 2 days before they have to come back on here and admit we were right all along?

They did, so maybe I'm jumping the gun somewhat, but based on similar precedents we won't see them again. I'm not singling out merely the Lockett die-hards as they're just the latest in a long line of fans who do a similar thing. Basically coming on saying that regulars don't know what they're talking about, don't respect or understand the boxer's real ability, aren't patriotic, are just cynical tw*ts etc, etc, etc, and then disappearing like a puff of smoke when their man gets his clock cleaned.
Again, I'm not talking about all the Lockett fans, as some were prepared to have a decent debate and fought their case without insulting people. But I'm just honestly sick to death of those who have close ties to a particular fighter and who consequently treat us like sh*t when we give objective opinions or criticisms of their man.

[black panther]

If I'm honest I kinda wanted Lockett to win - for Britain but the writing was on the wall from the first. I gave him a punchers chance but but it seems his power was overrated as well. But I think boxers do need to take that "step up" in their careers to see how good they really are...Lockett showed he is short of world class but theres no shame in that.

[stujones]

Well to be honest Deserter, I think the main thing that upset the hardcore Lockett fans, was when the posts went beyond boxing and more personal.

I didn't think Lockett was worthy of the chance, indeed I had a little debate with Terry in that I would have rather seen Trinidad and Mayorga in there..... and now I feel somewhat worthy. However, some of the other posters used terms like "I hate Lockett for gettng this chance".... which I do think is a bit much. Was it his fault he was #1 with the WBO - nope, was it his fault Duddy got a cut - nope.

Now as an outsider, I do think there was an air of a shambles with the whole thing - I mean idea that a notorious cutter like Lockett didn't have Mick Williamson or Benny King (or even Powell) on board seemed rediculous. However, I hope there is a logically explanation for this and I am sure Gary will note himself there was somethings that could have been done better.

I honestly hope that the Lockett fans, and even Gary himself, will respect the views of those who just stuck to the boxing - when it went a bit personal (like using the term hate) for him just getting the shot.... then, yes I can see why his fans would be upset.

[hitman_hatton1]

horrible match up.

always looked horrible.

i just can't believe i thought he'd last 6 rds.

[Deserter]

Well to be honest Deserter, I think the main thing that upset the hardcore Lockett fans, was when the posts went beyond boxing and more personal.

I didn't think Lockett was worthy of the chance, indeed I had a little debate with Terry in that I would have rather seen Trinidad and Mayorga in there..... and now I feel somewhat worthy. However, some of the other posters used terms like "I hate Lockett for gettng this chance".... which I do think is a bit much. Was it his fault he was #1 with the WBO - nope, was it his fault Duddy got a cut - nope.

Now as an outsider, I do think there was an air of a shambles with the whole thing - I mean idea that a notorious cutter like Lockett didn't have Mick Williamson or Benny King (or even Powell) on board seemed rediculous. However, I hope there is a logically explanation for this and I am sure Gary will note himself there was somethings that could have been done better.

I honestly hope that the Lockett fans, and even Gary himself, will respect the views of those who just stuck to the boxing - when it went a bit personal (like using the term hate) for him just getting the shot.... then, yes I can see why his fans would be upset.

Fair points Stu, I certainly wouldn't condone the likes of Search.

[hitman_hatton1]

It is a still a better fight than those novelty ones. We need real fighters taking on contenders otherwise what is the point of boxing? Very few make it to titles and if the guys who get recycled without having to win the odd fight we may as well pack it all up. Tito is coming off two defeats, only one actually at middleweight so he is not worthy on the basis of anything but his name.

true.

but give me pavlik-tito over a lockett fight anyday of the week.

[tenbyblue]

There are plenty of locket fans who regulally contribute to the forum who's heart odviously rulled there head like every fighter has on here(me probably included as although I did think Pavlik would win i thought Gary would take it alot further). I know that some were compelled (as rightlfully put by stu) to defend their man from hurtful comments written about him. Gary is genuinly a really nice down to earth family guy that will do anything for his friends. He works his arse off in the gym and does plenty of local charity work. All this paid off when he was given a shot at the title (and as Pavlik said himself he was in Gary's position a couple of years ago) there are plenty of fighters less deserving than him that have got a shot.
He didn't let himself down, he gave all he had but in the end it wasn't enough.
Plenty of his supporters who were over in the states will be back on here to keep chatting about boxing in general (some with their tail between their legs), you will be stupid to just mock them while they are down (remember a forum only works when there are plenty of contributers and everybody has their fave fighters).

Pete

[Captain Hook]

Who does Deserter mean?

I thought Lockett would put up a good performance but it wasn't to be, a lot of people on here underestimated Pavlik and I was one of them.

Bit of a pathetic thread to be honest! What's wrong with getting behind your man? There are too many on here who slate our homegrown lads in favour of making the easy call.

Props to Gary for getting in there, he's a nice bloke and I wish him well. Pavlik is just too powerful.

[Deserter]

I

There are plenty of fighters less deserving than him that have got a shot.
He didn't let himself down, he gave all he had but in the end it wasn't enough.
Plenty of his supporters who were over in the states will be back on here to keep chatting about boxing in general (some with their tail between their legs), you will be stupid to just mock them while they are down (remember a forum only works when there are plenty of contributers and everybody has their fave fighters).

Pete

Who's mocking them? I've just got a problem with the minority who tried to tell people on here that they didn't know what they were talking about.
As for there being plenty of fighters less deserving than him, I'm curious to know who, as I'm struggling to name more than a couple, and I think Lockett himself would be the first to admit he did let himself down, which is why you've got American fans refering to him as the "punchbag on legs". We know he's better than that, but he certainly didn't show it on Saturday night.
No doubt that he's a nice guy, but that's still no justification for him sharing the ring with the likes of Pavlik.

[Captain Hook]

PS Tito wouldn't last too much longer than Lockett IMO. Not given the shape he is in now. Rubio then Calzaghe would be good, as someone mentioned.

I agree with Deserter to a point if he's talking about the people who post 7 times, come on here the week before the fight then disappear, that's fair enough.

It must be said that a lot of Witter's 'fans' have been silent since the Bradley fight, whereas staunch suporters like Chambers came back on and faced the music

I fancied Lockett to do well, be competitive and go the distance as he seemed to have a good chin. Pavlik is a monster, I hold my hands up.

[Deserter]

I agree with Deserter to a point if he's talking about the people who post 7 times, come on here the week before the fight then disappear, that's fair enough.

That's exactly who I do mean fella, no-one else. I've only got a problem with the minority of fans who champion a fighter through rose-tinted specs to the degree that they fail to acknowledge any objective criticism or view other than their own. Some 'drop in', tell people they don't know what they're talking about and then b*gger off never to be seen again when they're proven wrong.
I think I speak for most in that I want to see the Brit boys succeed, but am objective enough to recognise when they're getting breaks they don't deserve, being put into mismatches etc.
I don't want this to get too bogged down in Lockett specifics as I was just using it as an example of one of many such occurances.
Yes, I would have liked Lockett to do the impossible, but why should I 'get behind him' when I didn't believe he'd earned his shot and had no right being in the same ring? The result was an embarrassing mismatch and the same people now saying he did us proud etc are the same people who'd be slagging him if he was an American facing Calzaghe. You've got to be consistent.

[Captain Hook]

It's because he's Welsh isn't it Deserter? come on, give it to me straight

[Lenny]

I agree getting annoyed at being told who you should support and the whole get behind the Brit and as said by John Rawling, if you've nothing positive to say then say nothing. I preferred Pavlik to Lockett for many reasons and am glad of the result.

oh and he's Welsh

[stujones]

It is a still a better fight than those novelty ones. We need real fighters taking on contenders otherwise what is the point of boxing? Very few make it to titles and if the guys who get recycled without having to win the odd fight we may as well pack it all up. Tito is coming off two defeats, only one actually at middleweight so he is not worthy on the basis of anything but his name.

Well I think Tito put on a good enough show against Light Heavyweight Jones to show he could be a threat at Middle.... although I do know AND Agree with what you are saying.

My only criticism/arguement with your point is what has Lockett done to place him in the contenders bracket. Ryan Rhodes is a good win, but then Rhodes has lost all his major fights at Middleweight. I would like to see a more substansial win before I class someone as a contender.... Now if Lockett was a light middle, and he fought Rhodes and beat at Light Middle - then yes, I would rather see him fight DLH rather than... ummm... trying to think of a past it former world champion who could fight at Light Middle..... well Gatti then at 154.

But, problem is - Lockett has really done naff all as a Middleweight against a middleweight of any note.... even a domestic top 5 middleweight... he aint fought them. So for me, he is not even a contender.

Note: Not saying Gary couldn't beat a top 5 domestic Middle, or it is his fault that he hasn't fought them - just stating he hasn't fought them.... so therefore, shouldn't be on the radar for a world title shot.

[banjo]

Lockett was to Pavlik what Manfredo was to Calzaghe, a sacrificial lamb, only Pavlik slaughtered Lockett whereas the referee spared Manfredo the punishment against Joe.

Total mismatch, the only chance Gary had was a punchers chance.

Sad but true.

[stujones]

Yeah, I think Cherifi would count as a meaningful win - he was world champion about 2 years previous and in the top ten. Plus he did beat Mayorga, who as scored one or two decent wins at Middleweight.

I do agree with the logic with what you are saying getting the #1 out of the way... and for that I applaud him, but my arguement point isn't supposed to be a dig at either boxer involved - just mearly a who do I think is more deserving of a shot (irrespective of alphabet rankings) - Mayorga or Trinidad, or Lockett - I would say the name fighters.

I know what you are saying regarding the WBO, but the point is - if Pavlik is moving up to face Joe - why keep his WBO belt. He could have done a "Barrera" and defended his ring belt/challenged - Abraham/Sturm - then faced Joe. If he is moving up to Super Middle, then no real point going for some number of defences record at Middle, is there.