Mark Hobson vs Tony Moran - Should it have happened?

MGibbonsMC · Post by **MGibbonsMC** » 13 Mar 2004, 19:45

I may be out on a limb here. But I cant get my head round how Tony Moran not only was allowed to challenge for the titles, but his management team (ignore the money) agreed to the fight.

The lad has only been boxing about 2 and a half years. He has no amateur experience. Agreed, he stood toe to toe and traded, and for a brief moment presented a few problems for Hobson,but he didnt have a game plan, could we say he had the experience ? And was that nasty Knock down a warning to the would be Rags to riches style matchups of the future ?

Moran's pro rec brags names like Paul Bonson (yes i know about the Carl Thompson fight) he is a tough durable fighter, but still nothing more than a journey man, Tony Booth, Michael Pinnock. Only 13 bouts with 11 wins (4 inside the distance).

I personally feel that the Moran camp would have done their man no harm in waiting a little while longer and perhaps get more experience under Moran's belt, perhaps a couple of 8 rounders, looking at his record the guy aint been past 6, your expecting him to up the class for major honours over twice the distance for me is a little too optimistic.

Hobson's record brags 21 wins from 25 five contests 10 of which came inside the distance. Former challenger for the WBU Cruiserweight title, and as we know current British and Commonwealth Cruiserweight champion.

Whats your views ?

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 13 Mar 2004, 20:47

I think that 'soft' voluntary defences have always been around in boxing, and always will. Hobson won the British title in his last fight in a tough 12-rounder with Rob Norton (a fight that saw him desperately close to losing on a cut eye and also badly hurt by a Norton southpaw left) - and is setting his sights on an IBO title showdown with hard-hitting Carl Thompson later this year, so perhaps deserved a low-risk night tonight. Even the greatest fighters in boxing history (Louis, Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, etc) have enjoyed such nights.
But you're perfectly right: it wasn't a nice ending and Moran did look raw. Tommy Gilmour, who manages both fighters, looked mightily relieved at the end, almost as if he knew Moran would get taken out.

MGibbonsMC · Post by **MGibbonsMC** » 13 Mar 2004, 21:06

Very true, but still not pleasant from a former boxer's point of view and someone that is still heavily involved in both the pro and am side of things, to watch any boxer go down in the manner Moran went down, he fell very heavily.

I like Tommy Gilmour and I agree with you when you put that he expected that Moran would be hurt or at least someone may get hurt. The way Moran went down, it may have been that Tommy's worse fears became a tragic reality.

Thank god that never came about and Moran stood up and appeared to have recovered quickly.

As you rightly say binnie, its been in the game for many years, and will never change.

The Devil In Roy Jones · Post by **The Devil In Roy Jones** » 13 Mar 2004, 22:24

Moran looked horribly out his depth from the get go. So loose and open. It was a sickening knockout that I'm sure pleased the blood-thirsty. Though Moran seemed content with the outcome (more power to him), I feel someone who knows him should have stopped it from happening.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 14 Mar 2004, 04:09

Indeed, he was horribly out of his depth. That defeat could be a career ender. Moran had nothing at all, (apart from heart and guts) and I just don't see a future for him. He should get out now, IMO.

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 14 Mar 2004, 08:06

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I can't remember any of you suggesting the fight shouldn't go ahead before the event. If you did, I apologise.

Moran knocked out Mathew Ellis last time out. Tommy Gilmour's matchmakers will have looked at that result and decided from it that the Liverpool man could look after himself.

I have no problems with the match.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 14 Mar 2004, 08:27

Indeed, hindsight is always 20/20 and I had no problem with the match up. I don't think any of us could have foresaw Moran's performance. It wasn't just his lack of boxing ability that surprised me but the fact that he seemed exhausted - during the second round. Perhaps the occasion got to him and he just 'blew up'.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 14 Mar 2004, 08:29

Do you think Moran might have hyped himself out with nervous energy?

He looked fucked in the second round, and there wasn't a lot of snap or power to his punches throughout the fight.

I've not seen Moran before, so don't know whether it is just one of his traits.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 14 Mar 2004, 08:39

Have a look at my report on BBN for my full views, if you're interested. I think you are being too nice - if one of a fighter's traits is to be fucked in the second round, he shouldn't be fighting.

Surely he can't have been so unfit. I think that there has either been some problem (medical/training) we don't know about or, more likely, his nervous energy has done for him.

MGibbonsMC · Post by **MGibbonsMC** » 14 Mar 2004, 08:45

[quote="FlawedGenius"]Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I can't remember any of you suggesting the fight shouldn't go ahead before the event. If you did, I apologise.

Moran knocked out Mathew Ellis last time out. Tommy Gilmour's matchmakers will have looked at that result and decided from it that the Liverpool man could look after himself.

I have no problems with the match.[/quote

Of course we all know he beat Ellis, who himself had an impressive record. And was unlucky in the early rounds against A Force,
we know that A Force wiped the floor with him from round 2 on wards.

But can we go matching lads up on the back of one great win ? I dont think so. And consider this one, Moran's last victory was against Ellis who himself was boxing on the back of a nasty stoppage, at the hands of Audley.

If your saying its an even match up im sorry i disagree with you, if your saying with Moran beating Ellis presented the matchmaker to take a little gamble and perhaps push his fighter infront of Hobson in the slim hope that Moran may cause an upset and set the British Cruiserweight Division alight, then I feel that this is more near the truth.

I agree with the two previous comments, the fight should never have been made, and the result could have ended Moran's career which is still in its early days. Im not saying that Hobson V Moran should never happen, im saying it shouldnt have happened yet, it was too soon.

Everyone see's it different though that what makes a beutiful sport.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 14 Mar 2004, 09:43

Moran is garbage, and he got sparked, end of.

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 14 Mar 2004, 10:41

MGibbonsMC
I was not saying it was a 50/50 fight, I am saying I had no problems with the match, there's a difference.

A matchmaker has to look at the stats and any available footage and make a decision.

In Moran they had a man, who whilst being relatively new to the sport, has been in with various "known" heavy and cruiserweights. He had never been stopped and was coming off a win against a name (of sorts). He also spars with heavyweights who can punch.

The champion has only a 50% Knockout ratio, so isn't anything close to nuclear. The matchmakers will have weighed these things up and decided the match was OK. The board saw no problem with the fight either.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 14 Mar 2004, 11:30

Moran's win over Ellis looked good on paper and secured him the shot, but it's well known Ellis injured his shoulder again in the fight and that's why he was forced to retire after four rounds.
He had previously injured the shoulder in the game effort against Audley.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 14 Mar 2004, 11:35

bennie wrote:Moran's win over Ellis looked good on paper and secured him the shot, but it's well known Ellis injured his shoulder again in the fight and that's why he was forced to retire after four rounds.
He had previously injured the shoulder in the game effort against Audley.

how sokn did he injure his shoulder again, and what was the fight like up to that point? I had quite good hopes for Ellis as a cruiser.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 14 Mar 2004, 11:42

adamiw wrote:
bennie wrote:Moran's win over Ellis looked good on paper and secured him the shot, but it's well known Ellis injured his shoulder again in the fight and that's why he was forced to retire after four rounds.
He had previously injured the shoulder in the game effort against Audley.
how sokn did he injure his shoulder again, and what was the fight like up to that point? I had quite good hopes for Ellis as a cruiser.

Moran pretty much dominated Ellis according to reports, but if Ellis' left shoulder 'went' early in the fight, then you would expect that. Moran throws a lot of punches and, for all his inexperience, is willing and fit.
Ellis suffered the shoulder injury in the Harrison fight in May 2003, then dropped down a weight and took on Moran in October 2003, only for the shoulder to go again.

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 14 Mar 2004, 12:49

Ellis is a brimson, always has been. He's got an excuse ready for everything. Moran beat him fair and square in that fight.

MGibbonsMC · Post by **MGibbonsMC** » 14 Mar 2004, 21:40

FlawedGenius wrote:MGibbonsMC
I was not saying it was a 50/50 fight, I am saying I had no problems with the match, there's a difference.

A matchmaker has to look at the stats and any available footage and make a decision.

In Moran they had a man, who whilst being relatively new to the sport, has been in with various "known" heavy and cruiserweights. He had never been stopped and was coming off a win against a name (of sorts). He also spars with heavyweights who can punch.

The champion has only a 50% Knockout ratio, so isn't anything close to nuclear. The matchmakers will have weighed these things up and decided the match was OK. The board saw no problem with the fight either.

As I say everyone has their own beliefs in boxing, and good luck to them.

In my wealth of experience I agree with the remainder of the comments on this subject, should the fight have been made. In response to a majority of the replies, the answer is clearly no.

Thanks to everyone on this one, apart from Flawed, we all seem conclusive that the fight shouldnt have happened so soon into Moran's career.

I know the BBBofC sanctioned it, why shouldnt they ? I am just speaking from an ex boxers point of view. Nerves drained Moran of energy, I could live with that. The fact clearly remains, he was out classed, and by the way fight ended clearly out powered, I am in association with some of the best match makers in the business, I have seen what a good match up looks like, I have also seen what a poor match up looks like, covering a boxing career that spans over 20 years in the business, my belief is this was a poor match up and shouldnt have happened at this stage of Moran's career.

Thanks everyone for you comments, I clearly wasnt on my own with my thoughts.