Why heavyweights are bigger today

[ebeneezer]

At the same time boxing "expert" Goldman was trumpeting that Dempsey "wasn't big enough" to beat Ali and Larry Holmes (both of whom were considerably smaller than Jess Willard).

And considerably more talented than Willard

[ebeneezer]

Better nutrition, better health care, better ways to condition and train such as weight training. Plus, in the world of the American Heavyweight boxer at least, many of them come late to the sport after having played football or basketball most of their lives. Weight training is a big part of both sports.

Cannot agree.

Weight training is not good for boxing.

The better fighters in earlier times all used the pulley weights, which imitate punchiing motions with some resistance.

They also shadow boxed holding 2,4, or 5 lb weights in each hand.

The so-called 'nutrition' conisisting of steroids, growth hormones, etc is not better.

As has been pointed out, the more recent excuses for fighters lack stamina.

The modern idea of weight training for boxing is garbage.

The so-called heavyweights of recent years are all 20-30 pounds overweight as compared to what an in shape boxer would be in years past.

That illustrates the incompetence in training methods for boxing more recently.

"Fighters" who have no stamina and are 20 or more pounds overweight are not 'better.'

Alan Sugar thinks otherwise Terap -

The difference today is the fighters have more modern methods, equipment, and have more quality muscle due to supplements, and weight and cable training through the use of free weights, bowflex, soloflex, and nautilus machines. The most glaring categories of comparison for proper analysis would embrace several issues. One must realize that there are advances in knowledge of nutrition, diet, and exercise equipment that are changing for the better approx., every 6 months. Fighters today have personal physical fitness trainers, like Holyfield’s Tim Hallmark, which is good and necessary. Years ago they feared weight training ONLY because they did not understand it. Old time trainers, some of whose backgrounds were simply physical education teachers, believed it made fighters "muscle-bound" which is one of the most misunderstood words. There is a way to train a fighter using free weights, cable work, and stretching techniques. Once each muscle group is developed properly and with the right fight teacher, and trainer, the fighter with a lot of boxing skill training, through sparring, working in front of the mirror, practicing all his techniques in offense, defense, and combination and power punching, will then be a superior fighter and can tap into extra power without sacrificing speed. If they can flex, control and separate each muscle group through training, this muscle control can be tapped into for speed and power. I teach this very well and have films of me hitting with more power in both hands than most any fighter today within 50 lbs. heavier. I have the films and films don’t lie.

Mike Tyson only trained his biceps and shoulders. Years have gone by where his build has atrophied, especially in his triceps, upper back, trapezius, and mid and lower back and abs and obliques. Don’t ever tell me boxing is not a bodybuilding contest, I know that, and I also know many muscular fighters cannot punch and many skinny ones can. But, with the right application of training, you can have the longevity of power. The fighters from the 60’s waned with too many fights and age. They did not know how to beat father time with supplements and modern training, so they burned out quicker with more fights and age setting in with only their courage and great skill winning for them. Boxing is half seconds and half inches. With fat in the wrong places you cannot move or execute power. Most 1960’s fighters had good biceps from plain boxing, but no real power in their triceps. The days of steak and eggs and cholesterol hell are supposed to be gone, yet look at the bodies of some of the top fighters today, they still haven’t learned because they don’t have the right people teaching them.

[The Great John L]

All interesting, but it's hard to watch “modern” HWs who have the supposed advantages of “modern” training being unable to sustain any decent work rate in a fight. While I believe many things have improved with modern advances, the simple, observable fact is that, in general, nearly all “modern” HWs have dreadful conditioning and run out of gas after a few rounds fought at a decent pace. A viewing of Lewis-Klitschko is all you need to see. Klitschko certainly is held up as a poster child for “modern” training, yet he and Lewis were both pretty much shot after about 4 rounds of fighting at a decent pace. Care to explain this example? It’s certainly more the norm with these “modern” well conditioned monsters. Is that we should expect from “modern” training techniques?

[dempseyfire]

Until I see a fighter who shows the combination of power, speed, and stamina like Robinson, Griffith, Hagler, Ali, Louis, Williams, (prime) Duran etc., all non weight lifters, who has weight lifting as an integral part of their training regime, I'll go with the evidence like John L.

Some limited work with cables and free weights is fine but heavy weight lifting has no place in boxing training.

[AngryGoon38]

I don't think the argument can be made that human beings are bigger these days as some do, I think that's nonsense. We can prove that human beings are built a little differently-for example taller, than they were several hundred years ago but we're talking a generation or two.
Essentially, heavyweights of today are bigger, in fact they're not, they're just heavier and that's because they lift weights and probably steroids has something to do with it also. But they're also slower and have far less stamina. I think if any heavy today had to fight at the pace of a Joe Frazier they may well collapse from exhaustion within five rounds let alone go fifteen. If you train to be fit you weigh less than if you train to be muscular.

i like this post!

it basically sums it up in a nutshell.

[Seamus]

Evander Holyfield has already proven that there is a place for heavy weightlifting in boxing. And I did say place, not main focus.

[JC]

Interesting thread with good points on either side, Robinson certainly seems to know his stuff and Dempseyfire, as always, make some good points.

While on the one hand I would imagine some of the guys form the 60s and 70s would have had a tough time with a big durable guy like Bowe. At the same time having seen how much better Rahman looked at 217lbs (I think) when he fought Holyfield its hard not to think he'd have had a much better career if he's fought sub 220 the whole time.

Question for the training/neutrition experts on here, how big a part do you think the move from 15 from 12 round fights has had on the weights HW choose to come in at? If it was a 15 round fight would Lewis come in at 230 and would Holmes have carried a few extra pounds if he knew it was only a 12 rounder? Just wondering.

Cheers

J-C

[granberry]

Shane Mosley admits to using BALCO steroids

BY TIM SMITH NYDAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER September 29th 2007

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_ ... stero.html

Shane Mosley said last night that he inadvertently took two designer steroids — "the cream" and "the clear" — before his championship fight against Oscar De La Hoya in 2003 after he was misled by BALCO founder Victor Conte about what he was actually taking.

"We were misled (by Conte)," Mosley told the Daily News. "I guess I got the clear and the cream."

Conte disputed that in an e-mail response to The News. "I've never misled or deceived any athlete," Conte wrote in the e-mail. "I've always been a man of full disclosure."

According to a report on SI.com yesterday, Mosley used the two types of designer steroids and EPO two months before his junior middleweight championship fight against De La Hoya in 2003.

Mosley said that his strength and conditioning coach at the time, Darryl Hudson, took a list of the substances Mosley believed he was using to the Nevada State Athletic Commission before his fight with De La Hoya and was told none of them were on the banned list.

Mosley said he didn't want to take any kind of drug or workout aids.

"To be honest with you, I told them I was already in great shape," he said, adding that he met Conte one time and gave him a check for $1500. "I didn't want to take anything. I didn't need anything. He (Conte) assured me it should be on the up and up. He assured me I'd never have a dirty test."

The SI.com report cited several unidentified sources who attended an international anti-doping conference in Colorado Springs last November where the government investigator in the BALCO case, Jeff Novitzky, said that Mosley began using the substances.

Mosley said he became aware that he might have used steroids after Conte was indicted "and I saw this guy on television."

Mosley said Hudson tried to reach Conte but that he would not return calls. "I saw this guy one time," said Mosley.

Mosley was subpoenaed in the BALCO investigation and testified before a federal grand jury in 2003. He has always denied using steroids and has never tested positive.

Mosley won a 12-round unanimous decision against De La Hoya in Las Vegas on Sept. 13, 2003. Oddly, Mosley is now working as head of boxer development at Golden Boy Promotions, De La Hoya's company. Mosley said then that he contacted the Nevada Boxing Commission about what he had been taking and they told him that nothing he was using was on its list of banned substances.

Mosley, 35, is currently training in Big Bear, Calif., getting ready to fight Miguel Cotto for the WBA welterweight championship at Madison Square Garden on Nov. 10. Ron Scott Stevens, the chairman of the New York State Athletic Commission, could not be reached for comment on whether the allegation that Mosley used designer steroids and EPO — a substance that increases the volume of red blood cells and the oxygen carrying capacity in the blood — would have an impact on his being licensed in New York for the fight against Cotto.

According to the SI.com report, evidence seized during a raid of BALCO showed that Mosley had blood work done measuring his hematocrit levels — the volume of red blood cells. There was also a calendar in Mosley's file with July 26 circled accompanied by the word "start'' and the letter "e" by Aug. 8 and it noted that his levels had increased from 44 at the start to 52.2 (an abnormally high level) on Aug. 8, according to the report. In his statement Mosley does not address the issue of whether he took EPO.

Mosley said he recalled taking two blood tests "to see if I was low on iron or calcium."

"I know in my heart that I'm a clean guy and a good guy," he said, "and I think all the fighters, promoters and even the boxing writers know what type of person I am, what type of fighter I am, and I don't need that type of edge. My record speaks for itself in this matter, I've always been a clean fighter, and I have nothing to hide. That one little hiccup should never have happened, and it won't happen again."

[granberry]

McCline gets fighting chance despite steroid report

BY TIM SMITH NY DAILY NEWS BOXING COLUMNIST
October 5th 2007

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_ ... e_ste.html

News report on McCline steroid controversy

The heavyweight championship fight between Samuel Peter and Jameel McCline at Madison Square Garden on Saturday night will go on despite a report in the Daily News that revealed McCline received more than $12,000 worth of steroids, human growth hormone and other related drugs between 2005 and 2006. After consulting with the New York Department of State, Ron Scott Stevens, chairman of the New York State Athletic Commission, said they would not stop McCline from fighting Peter for the interim WBC title.

"It seems clear that professional athletes from difference disciplines are being investigated as it relates to steroids," Stevens said. "That being said, the NYSAC will continue to vigorously enforce our steroids policy, that is we will continue our policy that mandates that we test boxers pre-and-post fight for anabolic steroids, performance enhancing drugs and any illegal substances. The NYSAC will cooperate with any law enforcement agencies on this matter."

McCline (38-7-3, 23 KOs) replaces Oleg Maskaev, the WBC heavyweight champion, after he pulled out of the mandatory defense against Peter because of a back injury. Oddly, McCline became available when his match against Vitali Klitschko in Munich, Germany on Sept. 22 was canceled because Klitschko injured his back and had to have surgery.

[granberry]

MSG inspectors beefed up due to steroid allegations

BY TIM SMITH NY DAILY NEWS BOXING COLUMNIST October 7th 2007

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_ ... id_-1.html

The New York State Athletic Commission assigned two inspectors to the corner of heavyweight contender Jameel McCline for his match against WBC interim champion Samuel Peter at Madison Square Garden last night. The commission took the unusual action in light of the allegations first reported in the Daily News on Thursday that McCline received more than $12,000 worth of steroids, human growth hormone and other related drugs between 2005 and 2006.

George Ward, a former New York corrections officer and long-time inspector, and Bobby Wall, former chief inspector for the commission, worked McCline's corner and dressing room. They supervised his pre- and postfight drug tests.

McCline lost the fight to Peter in an unanimous decision.

Ron Scott Stevens, NYSAC chairman, said he took the extra measure to ensure that there are no problems, considering the fact that McCline's name has surfaced in the Albany County District Attorney's investigation into Internet steroid and drug distribution operations. Stevens decided to allow the fight to go on after consulting with lawyers from the New York Department of State.

McCline, 37, replaced Maskaev, the WBC heavyweight champion, after Maskaev pulled out of the mandatory defense against Peter because of a back injury. McCline became available when his match against Vitali Klitschko in Munich, Germany, on Sept. 22 was canceled because Klitschko injured his back and had to have surgery.

It isn't the only time that someone has taken extra precautions with McCline before a boxing match.

Rumors of McCline using steroids prompted heavyweight title contender Calvin Brock to ask his promoters to insist that McCline submit to random steroid tests during his preparation for their bout outdoors at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas on April 23, 2005.

"I didn't want to take a chance," Brock said. "I wanted everything in my fight with him to be fair and equal."

Keith Kizer, the executive director of the Nevada commission, said his office was not aware of any random steroid tests that McCline underwent while training for the fight with Brock. But according to Brock, he was told by one of McCline's sparring partners who was in camp the entire time with McCline that McCline was randomly tested three times during his training camp.

"This guy who was there told me that someone came three times and tested him, because everybody in the camp was talking about it," Brock said. "So I was confident that he was clean when he came into the ring. I was satisfied."

Brock said he noticed a difference in McCline's physique when he got into the ring with him.

"I had sparred with him before he fought Chris Byrd in the fight before mine because he needed a lefthander and this guy was just ripped up. He was all muscle," Brock said. "When he got into the ring with me for our fight, he was soft and flabby. He was still big, but he wasn't rock hard like he had been when we sparred."

Brock won a 10-round unanimous decision.

Byrd, a close friend of McCline's, said he, too, noticed some differences in McCline when he fought him.

"I just remember at the press conference he was in a rage, screaming about this fight not having anything to do with friendship," Byrd said. "I was like, 'Just calm down.' I couldn't figure out why he was getting all upset."

Byrd also noticed a difference in McCline's physique when he stepped into the ring on fight night.

"His arms were massive," Byrd said. "He was ripped. Everything he hit me with hurt. I've been in with some big punchers, but I've never been punched as hard as he punched me. He was strong. The fight right after mine against Calvin Brock, he didn't look nearly as ripped or as strong. I was thinking, 'This isn't the same guy that fought me.'"

[Robinson]

steroids and enhancers dont make one big.
they CAN most often in body building.

steroids have been in sports since the 50s.

[Diamond WEAPON]

MSG inspectors beefed up due to steroid allegations

BY TIM SMITH NY DAILY NEWS BOXING COLUMNIST October 7th 2007

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_ ... id_-1.html

The New York State Athletic Commission assigned two inspectors to the corner of heavyweight contender Jameel McCline for his match against WBC interim champion Samuel Peter at Madison Square Garden last night. The commission took the unusual action in light of the allegations first reported in the Daily News on Thursday that McCline received more than $12,000 worth of steroids, human growth hormone and other related drugs between 2005 and 2006.

George Ward, a former New York corrections officer and long-time inspector, and Bobby Wall, former chief inspector for the commission, worked McCline's corner and dressing room. They supervised his pre- and postfight drug tests.

McCline lost the fight to Peter in an unanimous decision.

Ron Scott Stevens, NYSAC chairman, said he took the extra measure to ensure that there are no problems, considering the fact that McCline's name has surfaced in the Albany County District Attorney's investigation into Internet steroid and drug distribution operations. Stevens decided to allow the fight to go on after consulting with lawyers from the New York Department of State.

McCline, 37, replaced Maskaev, the WBC heavyweight champion, after Maskaev pulled out of the mandatory defense against Peter because of a back injury. McCline became available when his match against Vitali Klitschko in Munich, Germany, on Sept. 22 was canceled because Klitschko injured his back and had to have surgery.

It isn't the only time that someone has taken extra precautions with McCline before a boxing match.

Rumors of McCline using steroids prompted heavyweight title contender Calvin Brock to ask his promoters to insist that McCline submit to random steroid tests during his preparation for their bout outdoors at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas on April 23, 2005.

"I didn't want to take a chance," Brock said. "I wanted everything in my fight with him to be fair and equal."

Keith Kizer, the executive director of the Nevada commission, said his office was not aware of any random steroid tests that McCline underwent while training for the fight with Brock. But according to Brock, he was told by one of McCline's sparring partners who was in camp the entire time with McCline that McCline was randomly tested three times during his training camp.

"This guy who was there told me that someone came three times and tested him, because everybody in the camp was talking about it," Brock said. "So I was confident that he was clean when he came into the ring. I was satisfied."

Brock said he noticed a difference in McCline's physique when he got into the ring with him.

"I had sparred with him before he fought Chris Byrd in the fight before mine because he needed a lefthander and this guy was just ripped up. He was all muscle," Brock said. "When he got into the ring with me for our fight, he was soft and flabby. He was still big, but he wasn't rock hard like he had been when we sparred."

Brock won a 10-round unanimous decision.

Byrd, a close friend of McCline's, said he, too, noticed some differences in McCline when he fought him.

"I just remember at the press conference he was in a rage, screaming about this fight not having anything to do with friendship," Byrd said. "I was like, 'Just calm down.' I couldn't figure out why he was getting all upset."

Byrd also noticed a difference in McCline's physique when he stepped into the ring on fight night.

"His arms were massive," Byrd said. "He was ripped. Everything he hit me with hurt. I've been in with some big punchers, but I've never been punched as hard as he punched me. He was strong. The fight right after mine against Calvin Brock, he didn't look nearly as ripped or as strong. I was thinking, 'This isn't the same guy that fought me.'"

That's interesting, because in the past couple years I've thought McCline has looked much more solid and lean and despite not losing any weight, and he looked like a monster against Peter.

[zslayton]

Interesting thread with good points on either side, Robinson certainly seems to know his stuff and Dempseyfire, as always, make some good points.

While on the one hand I would imagine some of the guys form the 60s and 70s would have had a tough time with a big durable guy like Bowe. At the same time having seen how much better Rahman looked at 217lbs (I think) when he fought Holyfield its hard not to think he'd have had a much better career if he's fought sub 220 the whole time.

Question for the training/neutrition experts on here, how big a part do you think the move from 15 from 12 round fights has had on the weights HW choose to come in at? If it was a 15 round fight would Lewis come in at 230 and would Holmes have carried a few extra pounds if he knew it was only a 12 rounder? Just wondering.

Cheers

J-C

You make a good point. I think fighters are bigger today because of the weight training and diet that they eat. I think if guys from the old school lifted weights and ate the way the guys do now (supplements and such) they'd have been bigger guys too. I do think there are more fighters today that are over 6'4" in the heavyweight division than 30 years ago.

Anyway, I think the fact that guys only train for 12 rounds, and not 15, might have something to do with them being heavier these days in not able to maintain a fast pace, but they are heavyweights anyway. How many heavyweights in history have been able to throw 80 punches a round, every round? I'm sure a few could do that, but really, it is not realistic.

Here is another bit of interesting information. When I was working on my M.S. in Exercise Science at LSU, we had a professor that is well known for his work with the Olympic weight lifting team and research in exercise science. He was 100% sure that boxers needed more fast twitch muscle fiber work than endurance and stamina work. He advocated 'Olympic' style lifting for the explosion and power it could give a fighter. However, he didn't think much of the endurance work and felt that it should be kept to a minimum. Can't say I agree with that one because boxing is a sport where you need to be able to go 12 hard rounds, but also need to have the speed and power for the short, explosive infighting that occurs in a fight. SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO TRAIN ALL THE SYSTEMS OF THE BODY, NOT JUST FOCUS ON ENDURANCE OR POWER.

That was a little off track from what we started out talking about. Sorry.

The problem with most fighters is they don't have personal fitness trainers so they pick up a magazine or go let some untrained gym jockey teach them how to lift. Most gym jockey's are not training for sports performance. They are training to look like Arnold. This type of training is counterproductive for a boxer. Boxers can lift weights and see good results from that, but they have to know what lifts to do and what lifts to avoid for their sport. They also need to know how many sets and reps to do. Like I said, the guys that don't have personal fitness experts/trainers will do what the gym jockey advises them to do or they will fall back on old high school football workouts which are not good for boxing either. Although they are good for packing on weight and building strength.

Back to the statement again. I think fighters today don't train for the marathon, they train for the sprint. Plus, with the abundance of fat heavyweights out there, it's obvious that they might not be training at all and just eating a bunch of cookies.

[granberry]

"When I was working on my M.S. in Exercise Science at LSU, we had a professor that is well known for his work with the Olympic weight lifting team and research in exercise science."

US Olympic weightlifting went under decades ago when longtime US Olympic coach Bob Hoffman died and those who used weights congregated around power lifting and bodybuilding.

This "professor" is connected with the totally failed current US Olympic weight lifting team and you expect that to impress?

These so-called "experts" from academia trying to stick their incompetent noses into what is left of "boxing" is a sick joke.

LOL.

[ebeneezer]

These so-called "experts" from academia trying to stick their incompetent noses into what is left of "boxing" is a sick joke.

LOL.

Like you peddling your bitter conspiracy theorist nonsense over at cyverboxingzone and getting laughed off the board?

[zslayton]

"When I was working on my M.S. in Exercise Science at LSU, we had a professor that is well known for his work with the Olympic weight lifting team and research in exercise science."

US Olympic weightlifting went under decades ago when longtime US Olympic coach Bob Hoffman died and those who used weights congregated around power lifting and bodybuilding.

This "professor" is connected with the totally failed current US Olympic weight lifting team and you expect that to impress?

These so-called "experts" from academia trying to stick their incompetent noses into what is left of "boxing" is a sick joke.

LOL.

Dr. Kyle Pierce is his name. He is at training center on the LSU-S campus. Look him up.

I won't argue about US Olympic Weight Lifting. It hasn't done anything in my lifetime, but science is science. He has also worked with the Bulgarians and a number of other countries where their Olympic teams did well. Olympic lifters don't like powerlifters and powerlifters think Olympic lifters suck. IMO powerlifting is not good for a boxer, but Olympic lifts are useful for developing explosion. However, neither is going to do much for their endurance, which is what I think more fighters need.

[granberry]

"When I was working on my M.S. in Exercise Science at LSU, we had a professor that is well known for his work with the Olympic weight lifting team and research in exercise science."

US Olympic weightlifting went under decades ago when longtime US Olympic coach Bob Hoffman died and those who used weights congregated around power lifting and bodybuilding.

This "professor" is connected with the totally failed current US Olympic weight lifting team and you expect that to impress?

These so-called "experts" from academia trying to stick their incompetent noses into what is left of "boxing" is a sick joke.

LOL.

Dr. Kyle Pierce is his name. He is at training center on the LSU-S campus. Look him up.

I won't argue about US Olympic Weight Lifting. It hasn't done anything in my lifetime, but science is science. He has also worked with the Bulgarians and a number of other countries where their Olympic teams did well. Olympic lifters don't like powerlifters and powerlifters think Olympic lifters suck. IMO powerlifting is not good for a boxer, but Olympic lifts are useful for developing explosion. However, neither is going to do much for their endurance, which is what I think more fighters need.

A competent BOXING trainer who knows BOXING is needed for a boxer.

That should be obvious.

The academics collect salaries and try to justify their own existence with their total crap.

They know NOTHING about boxing.

[zslayton]

"When I was working on my M.S. in Exercise Science at LSU, we had a professor that is well known for his work with the Olympic weight lifting team and research in exercise science."

US Olympic weightlifting went under decades ago when longtime US Olympic coach Bob Hoffman died and those who used weights congregated around power lifting and bodybuilding.

This "professor" is connected with the totally failed current US Olympic weight lifting team and you expect that to impress?

These so-called "experts" from academia trying to stick their incompetent noses into what is left of "boxing" is a sick joke.

LOL.

Dr. Kyle Pierce is his name. He is at training center on the LSU-S campus. Look him up.

I won't argue about US Olympic Weight Lifting. It hasn't done anything in my lifetime, but science is science. He has also worked with the Bulgarians and a number of other countries where their Olympic teams did well. Olympic lifters don't like powerlifters and powerlifters think Olympic lifters suck. IMO powerlifting is not good for a boxer, but Olympic lifts are useful for developing explosion. However, neither is going to do much for their endurance, which is what I think more fighters need.

A competent BOXING trainer who knows BOXING is needed for a boxer.

That should be obvious.

The academics collect salaries and try to justify their own existence with their total crap.

They know NOTHING about boxing.

He isn't training fighters. He is conditioning them. Conditioning is a science.

[Knucklez]

Boxing makes you a better boxer, lifting weights does not.

For all these modern enhancements in training techniques and nutrition, modern fighters are simply not as fit or conditioned as fighters of old.

Fact.

[granberry]

Was it Joe Gans and Battling Nelson who fought 42 rounds for the lightweight title?

Or was it two fighters 'trained' by current college 'professors'?

LOL

Was it Stanley Ketchel and Joe Thomas who fought 32 rounds for the middleweight title?

Or was it two fighters 'trained' by current college 'professors'?

[dempseyfire]

US Olympic weightlifting went under decades ago when longtime US Olympic coach Bob Hoffman died and those who used weights congregated around power lifting and bodybuilding.

This "professor" is connected with the totally failed current US Olympic weight lifting team and you expect that to impress?

These so-called "experts" from academia trying to stick their incompetent noses into what is left of "boxing" is a sick joke.

LOL.

Dr. Kyle Pierce is his name. He is at training center on the LSU-S campus. Look him up.

I won't argue about US Olympic Weight Lifting. It hasn't done anything in my lifetime, but science is science. He has also worked with the Bulgarians and a number of other countries where their Olympic teams did well. Olympic lifters don't like powerlifters and powerlifters think Olympic lifters suck. IMO powerlifting is not good for a boxer, but Olympic lifts are useful for developing explosion. However, neither is going to do much for their endurance, which is what I think more fighters need.

A competent BOXING trainer who knows BOXING is needed for a boxer.

That should be obvious.

The academics collect salaries and try to justify their own existence with their total crap.

They know NOTHING about boxing.

He isn't training fighters. He is conditioning them. Conditioning is a science.[/quote]

One thing about science though is that it is often completly wrong.

Many things assumed to be right just 10 years ago are now in the medical profession have been proven to be wrong.

Sports-science has recently exploded in the past 20 years, but in it you will find many papers/essays coming to very incongruent conclusions.

I have never seen anything, via results (most importantly) or in an essay, that shows how making weights a regular part of your boxing training regime will improve you as a fighter.

Push-ups, pull-ups, chopping wood, medicine ball exercises, heavy-bag will create all of the strength you need in the sport of boxing.

[John Galt]

Boxing conditioning.

http://www.sportsci.org/news/news9709/hatfield.html

[dempseyfire]

Boxing conditioning.

http://www.sportsci.org/news/news9709/hatfield.html

I've seen that article. Yes, the same Holyfield who teetered out late vs both Moorer and Bowe in the rematch and often became a sitting duck for Foreman's punches in their fight.

The best Holyfield stamina wise was vs Qawi when he weighed 190. Holyfield always had stamina issues at Heavyweight.

Doing plyometric-type exercises and other drills for 3 minute durations (a round) with a minute rest in beween has been apart of training since the teens.

[The Great John L]

I've seen that article. Yes, the same Holyfield who teetered out late vs both Moorer and Bowe in the rematch and often became a sitting duck for Foreman's punches in their fight.

The best Holyfield stamina wise was vs Qawi when he weighed 190. Holyfield always had stamina issues at Heavyweight.

Yes you’re right. For years I’ve been miffed at the discussion of Holfyfields “great conditioning”, because in general as a HW Holyfield was seldom able to keep up much of a pace, and he probably had very few fights where he averaged even 45 punches per round. I guess relative to much of his opposition his conditioning has been good, but compared to earlier breed HW fighters, it was ordinary at best.

As you noted he had much better stamina as a CW, which makes sense. I’ve never seen a distance runner bulk up for events.

Doing plyometric-type exercises and other drills for 3 minute durations (a round) with a minute rest in beween has been apart of training since the teens.

At least the teens, if not earlier.

[Ambling Alp]

Holyfield showed great stamina against Qawi when he weighed 190. That fight went 15 rounds and there was a lot of action.

I don't know if the Bowe and Moorer fights showed that he had bad stamina. (I'm guessing that you mean the first Moorer fight and the 3rd Bowe fight)
Supposedly he had a bad shoulder in the Moorer fight and hepatititis in the Bowe fight. Of course fighters and their fans always have their excuses, but something did seem to be wrong with him in those fights. You could tell early on that something was wrong, so it seems like it was something other than stamina.

There doesn't seem to be much evidence that shows lifting weights does more for a boxer than other techniques. In some situations it may be a good idea to bulk up to a certain extent, but that can be done other ways as well.
The big problem is that some guys bulk up (with or without steriods) way too much. This does hurt their stamina, as well as their speed and agility.