Calzaghe v Pavlik - who wins?

[nickd]

Max you seriously talk some shit where Calzaghe is concerned. Pavlik is way more than a one dimensional slugger. Everyone can see that but you.

Everyone but me must have terrible judgmental skills then. I am right when Calzaghe wins though still.

Calzaghe will have an easy night with him and It's Insane to think Joe will have trouble with the Middleweight Gatti.

Calzaghe Is leagues above Lockett an Taylor and Taylor shouldn't of got a loss In the rematch, he out jabbed and boxed Pavlik pretty handily, Pavlik looked stiff and kept behind a tight guard throwing little.

Pavlik's a KO waiting to happen, If he trades with anyone like Kessler or Abraham, he's getting laid out. Abraham's one dimensional too but he takes a shot better than Kelly and has Insane durability.

Now you're comparing Pavlik to Gatti? You really need to find another sport to discuss because you don't have a f-ing clue!

As for Taylor he looked more impressive against Hopkins than Calzaghe did, a Hopkins who was 3 years younger too.

You just can't give anyone else in and around Calzaghe's weight any credit, it's like having a discussion with a child!

[Max Molyneux]

Yeah because 3 years ago Hopkins wasn't a cheat and a Ruiz like holder.

Pavlik takes too many shots like Gatti did. When he faces someone who hurts him, I can see a KO defeat happening.

I give credit when It's due, seems like your hardly here to see I do when It's due.

You guys can;t deny Pavlik would be out of his depth against Joe. It seems If the champions aren't British we can't criticise them without some of you being way oversensitive. oversensitivity Is bad for being a sports fan IMO

This is just ignorant, you don't hammer Miranda, beat Taylor twice and destroy Lockett by being leagues below JC.

I would fancy JC to edge him on points but he would have to be in the shape of his life.

Take the blinkers off, Pavlik is gettign better and JC is coming to the end of the road.

Max you seriously talk some shit where Calzaghe is concerned. Pavlik is way more than a one dimensional slugger. Everyone can see that but you.

Everyone but me must have terrible judgmental skills then. I am right when Calzaghe wins though still.

Calzaghe will have an easy night with him and It's Insane to think Joe will have trouble with the Middleweight Gatti.

Calzaghe Is leagues above Lockett an Taylor and Taylor shouldn't of got a loss In the rematch, he out jabbed and boxed Pavlik pretty handily, Pavlik looked stiff and kept behind a tight guard throwing little.

Pavlik's a KO waiting to happen, If he trades with anyone like Kessler or Abraham, he's getting laid out. Abraham's one dimensional too but he takes a shot better than Kelly and has Insane durability.

This is just ignorant, you don't hammer Miranda, beat Taylor twice and destroy Lockett by being leagues below JC.

I would fancy JC to edge him on points but he would have to be in the shape of his life.

Take the blinkers off, Pavlik is gettign better and JC is coming to the end of the road.

Don't even mention blinkers, I remember your bias for Hatton like many of you did. It took a guy who couldn't even KO Gatti to bring you all down to earth as well.

Miranda hasn't beaten any world class fighters to be even mentioned and couldn't even take advantage of Abraham's broken jaw. He was weirdly ranked so high In the IBF before Eastman without beating anyone decent too.

Taylor should of got the draw or a win In the rematch, Pavlik was very basic that night while Taylor moved and outboxed him. The first fight he had him down but was too negative to finish him.

Lockett as nice a guy he sounds tuned up on too many journeymen and this was my concern when he stepped Into the lions den.

Being at the end of the road means he will retire soon, he's not shot or lost his speed. 36 Is only old when your stupid and get Into too many wars or were boxing 50 years ago.

[nickd]

You seriously can't compare Pavlik to Gatti, that is just ridiculous.

[observer1]

I don't know.

as old as Hopkins was, He still proved a Classy Fighter making Calzaghe look like a Joke.

I dont think Pavlik can do that, Pavlik will be alot of Aggressive, looking to Set the pace of the fight to an aggressive fast paced Match...

Joe Should win this pretty easily on Points.

Pavlik is good, but i dont rate him THAT much.

[Max Molyneux]

as old as Hopkins was, He still proved a Classy Fighter making Calzaghe look like a Joke.

Cheating classy? He lasted the distance faking low blows, excessively holding and butting/elbowing.

You seriously can't compare Pavlik to Gatti, that is just ridiculous.

Likes to trade, has a trading style that he will find harder to use at a higher weight like Gatti. Easy to hit with jabs and hooks as well. Easy to move around too.

Can compare them style wise.

Kelly won the undisputed title while Gatti didn't though.

[nickd]

They are nothing alike. Pavlik has height and reach for a start which he uses, and has already proved he is a class above Gatti. When did Gatti ever beat a top tier fighter? It seems you'll make no end of ridiculous comments and comparisons to stubbornly try and make your futile point.

I really hope Calzaghe v Pavilk happens, because it's certainly not going to be the walk in the park you seem to think it's going to be. At his advanced age and showing clear signs of slipping I think it will probably be his hardest fight.

[states]

Whilst I think Calzaghe would beat Pavlik at this stage, should it happen, I'd be cheering Pavlik on purely because of you Max. You'd have been right at home in the Politburo, circa 1980.

[Max Molyneux]

They are nothing alike. Pavlik has height and reach for a start which he uses, and has already proved he is a class above Gatti. When did Gatti ever beat a top tier fighter? It seems you'll make no end of ridiculous comments and comparisons to stubbornly try and make your futile point.

I really hope Calzaghe v Pavilk happens, because it's certainly not going to be the walk in the park you seem to think it's going to be. At his advanced age and showing clear signs of slipping I think it will probably be his hardest fight.

The fact you say futile makes you Insecure and desperate maybe feeling sensitive towards my points?

Used his height and reach against Miranda and swarmed him not giving Edison a chance to put enough sting In the shots, but like Gatti, Pavlik Is Not HARD to hit with hooks and the jab. It's not ridiculous at all to make small comparisions just because you disagree.

Style wise, Joe will have an easy night, a come forward pressure guy Joe likes. The last one he fought he battered. Showed signs of slipping before he was 34 and then gave us some great performances still.

Heard alot of you says It will be his hardest before with his previous opponents and then he clearly beat them.

Joe could get over eager and get hit with a right while being over eager but thats all I could see, Pavlik will lose otherwise as Joe has taken harder punches then what Kelly throws.

[Max Molyneux]

Whilst I think Calzaghe would beat Pavlik at this stage, should it happen, I'd be cheering Pavlik on purely because of you Max. You'd have been right at home in the Politburo, circa 1980.

So since you'll be cheering on Kelly what will be your reaction to when Calzaghe slaps him Into submission?

[states]

FFS, pull your head out of Calzaghe's arse. Learn to appreciate other boxers. And stop thinking that you're always right.

Your constant chat about Calzaghe/judges/whatever, etc makes you look either incredibly arrogant or incredibly stupid. And I don't think you're arrogant.

[bugs]

It is getting a little fristrating that people keep bringing up the Hokpins fight to guage this one. Hopkins fights spoilers, has done for years, arguably always has done, with hopkins you just have to beat him, not worry about how close it looked or anything else, you either win or you dont, even if you are far superior his spoiling tactics will make it an ugly battle, Calzaghe had to come forward in that fight which is a tactical change for him, he did it and he won (clearly in my books), but it does nto say a great deal about what he has left in the tank, or how good he would be against Pavlik.
The Kessler fight was a good fight, but Joe won hands down again for me. Pavlik likes to walk forwards, Calzaghe likes to counter punch, use his lateral movement and hit them with flurries from angles, Pavlik is just the kind of fighter Joe does well against, sure he can hit Joe, maybe even floor him, but noone has looked anything like KOing Joe, not once, and he has fought equal or bigger hitter than Pavlik at higher weight classes. Plus Pavlik has done nothing to suggest any sort of unorthodox ability, he is a good solid come forward fighter, but not particularly special in anything other than his consistency, kind of like Kessler.

[nickd]

The fact you say futile makes you Insecure and desperate maybe feeling sensitive towards my points?

Hardly, I am just flabbergasted that you continually come out with so much shit!

[Captain Hook]

The fact you say futile makes you Insecure and desperate maybe feeling sensitive towards my points?

Hardly, I am just flabbergasted that you continually come out with so much shit!

Rise above it mate, he hasn't a clue. He can't have seen Pavlik fight...

[boxbet]

will Calzaghe have the motivation to win??? will he see it as one last pay day?? What if the the fight is made at LIGHT HEAVY??? yes bring it on . alot could depend on where its held.

[Autobarn]

I wouldn't call him 3D either, though, Terry. He's somewhere inbetween and I'm still not convinced with his body punching. I want to see Kelly fight a slickster, not a brawler (which at least 3 of his 4 opponents have been, and Taylor I was a bit of a brawl). Then I'll believe the hype.

Taylor was pretty slick in fight II and Pavlik went for the body at a crucial time so there is a sign that he thinks in there. He is definitely not 1-D. Fighters like him, and Marciano for that matter, look like anyone could step into the ring and defeat them but the reality is that before you know it they are undercutting your supposed greater skills and taking you apart.

He is effective at what he does.

I'm probably being cynical (let's be honest, we all are) but to say Kelly is a true great in the making when the two biggest names on his record struggled to make the weight, and I thought Taylor almost won the second fight (115-113 Kelly), doesn't exactly enthuse me about this Kid.

It's a shame there isn't that much quality at 160 like there is at 135 and 147 to test him properly.

Pavlik could become an overachiever like Israel Vazquez. Vazquez could look ordinary and lost fights along the way and struggled in others. Yet his persistence, his power and his attention to detail saw him prove his superiority to Larios, get by Johnny Gonzalez in a great fight and then gett he better of Marquez in one of boxing's great rivalries. Now he is bound for the Hall of Fame, with potentially big $$ fights (JM Lopez, Linares) before he retires.

Kelly's doing things 1 step at a time. Winning the elim (Zertuche), knocking out the top contender (Miranda), beating the champ (Taylor). Kelly was forced into that Taylor rematch - everything was on Taylor's terms - and yet Kelly edged by, vs the worst style.

Normally, a rookie champ gets a hand picked opponent to look good against, but Pavlik had to fight a fitter, stronger Taylor.

I think he'll carry on improving. That was a very hard learning curve he's had, so I'm very encouraged by what he can go on to do. Americna TV love him, and Kelly can start using his reach a bit more, take less punishment, and have plenty of good years.

IMO middleweight can be great. Pavik-Abraham unification. Then wait a year for Peter Quillin perhaps. And then look to Germany again, for Dmitry Pirog & Gennady Golovkin, who could go on to big things. I just hope Kelly can make the weight long enough. Plenty of tough contenders - Rubio, Lorenzo, Lopez, Grififn - in the meantime. Stay busy and make the weight easier, I say

[Autobarn]

will Calzaghe have the motivation to win??? will he see it as one last pay day?? What if the the fight is made at LIGHT HEAVY??? yes bring it on . alot could depend on where its held.

Arum said it has to be at super middle.

[Max Molyneux]

FFS, pull your head out of Calzaghe's arse. Learn to appreciate other boxers. And stop thinking that you're always right.

Your constant chat about Calzaghe/judges/whatever, etc makes you look either incredibly arrogant or incredibly stupid. And I don't think you're arrogant.

Did you pull your head out of Hatton's or did It take Floyd to do that for you?

I talk about other fighters too or do you guys only read certain posts of mine?

Rise above it mate, he hasn't a clue. He can't have seen Pavlik fight...

Rise above what, I'm discussing my thoughts on Pavlik, I am starting arguements you mong.

I've seen Pavlik from Miranda to the Lockett fight. He clearly wouldn't trouble Calzaghe.

If you guys can't accept someone elses thoughts without the fustration some are showing then maybe you need another sport for the sake of your own healths.

It is getting a little fristrating that people keep bringing up the Hokpins fight to guage this one. Hopkins fights spoilers, has done for years, arguably always has done, with hopkins you just have to beat him, not worry about how close it looked or anything else, you either win or you dont, even if you are far superior his spoiling tactics will make it an ugly battle, Calzaghe had to come forward in that fight which is a tactical change for him, he did it and he won (clearly in my books), but it does nto say a great deal about what he has left in the tank, or how good he would be against Pavlik.
The Kessler fight was a good fight, but Joe won hands down again for me. Pavlik likes to walk forwards, Calzaghe likes to counter punch, use his lateral movement and hit them with flurries from angles, Pavlik is just the kind of fighter Joe does well against, sure he can hit Joe, maybe even floor him, but noone has looked anything like KOing Joe, not once, and he has fought equal or bigger hitter than Pavlik at higher weight classes. Plus Pavlik has done nothing to suggest any sort of unorthodox ability, he is a good solid come forward fighter, but not particularly special in anything other than his consistency, kind of like Kessler.

Yeah, It Is hard to look good when the other guy just wants to spoil and cheat. Froch looked bad against Barney because he came to spoil.

Plus Joe thrives off come forward fighters and It's easy to see Joe will win easy against Pavlik.

[Max Molyneux]

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/displa ... 583.0..php

[Counter-puncher]

Max i am a Calzaghe fan, have been since i saw his 5th pro fight. please think of the following comments as from a concerned fan, not a hater or pavlik-booster.

To me several aspects of Joe's game have noticeably dropped off in the last few fights (say from Lacy).

His speed of foot isn't what it was IMO
His hands are even worse, he managed to hurt them giving Manfredo little more than lovetaps.
His reflexes are slowing- he was caught by shots from kessler and hopkins that i doubt would have got him 3 years or so back.

against Kessler the hand problems didn't stop him outworking kessler as kessler was (a) tight at the weight and (b) hurt by the bodyshot in the 8th, and couldn't come back. I don't think Pavlik would have those problems. I think he will be throwing hard shots from the first bell to the last and we haven't seen Joe in with someone who can do that- well, possibly ever.

pavlik is indeed straight-up and no-frills, and if you listen to joe he will tell you that makes him a perfect fit for his style. possibly true. however it also makes pavlik a perfect fit to stay in there with Joe and outwork him- with 90 proper punches a round rather than 90 biscuit-handed shoeshine lovetaps, sorry but its true the headshots Joe lands nowadays would hold few fears for most decent class amas never mind top pros IMO.

joe simply can't stop Pavlik IMO, the question then is who lands the most effective shots. and because of the deficit in the power joe can put into his shots, IMo that means he has to outland pavlik maybe 3 shots to 2, or even more. thats fine against someone like kessler, who is cautious, weight-drained, and always fights half on the backfoot so was always unlikely to outwork joe. pavlik doesn't (fight on the half-backfoot), so he can, if that makes sense.

also think of Joe's fitness. he only just- only just IMO- managed to come back in the later rounds vs hopkins, who was at the time throwing, what? 30 punches a round and as we all know is about 60. i have to wonder if finally the time has come where it will not be Joe who is the stronger man late on- especially as he will be getting hit with the harder shots, make no mistake about that.

put it this way max, with lacy-kessler-hopkins i got my prediction spot-on: even down to the early KD and the S/D with hopkins both of which i predicted. and a pavlik fight gives me more grounds for concern, as a calzaghe fan, than anyone he has yet fought. it isn't his punch, its the fact that he throws lots of them, takes a shot well, so you will have to outwork him. yes maybe he will get KO'd one day but Joe ain't gonna do it is he? its Joe's 80 relatively feeble shots a round vs Pavlik's 80 hard ones. by my reckoning joe's gonna have to have Pavlik landing at about 20% to make sure the extra weight of shots is on his side. and i am not sure he can do that nowadays, even 2 years back i would have been much more confident but i think i have seen enough signs of decline in Calzaghe that I could call this close to a 50/50 fight, with a slight edge to calzaghe on the grounds of experience/versatility and level of opposition.

[Captain Hook]

FFS, pull your head out of Calzaghe's arse. Learn to appreciate other boxers. And stop thinking that you're always right.

Your constant chat about Calzaghe/judges/whatever, etc makes you look either incredibly arrogant or incredibly stupid. And I don't think you're arrogant.

Did you pull your head out of Hatton's or did It take Floyd to do that for you?

I talk about other fighters too or do you guys only read certain posts of mine?

Rise above it mate, he hasn't a clue. He can't have seen Pavlik fight...

Rise above what, I'm discussing my thoughts on Pavlik, I am starting arguements you mong.

I've seen Pavlik from Miranda to the Lockett fight. He clearly wouldn't trouble Calzaghe.

If you guys can't accept someone elses thoughts without the fustration some are showing then maybe you need another sport for the sake of your own healths.

It is getting a little fristrating that people keep bringing up the Hokpins fight to guage this one. Hopkins fights spoilers, has done for years, arguably always has done, with hopkins you just have to beat him, not worry about how close it looked or anything else, you either win or you dont, even if you are far superior his spoiling tactics will make it an ugly battle, Calzaghe had to come forward in that fight which is a tactical change for him, he did it and he won (clearly in my books), but it does nto say a great deal about what he has left in the tank, or how good he would be against Pavlik.
The Kessler fight was a good fight, but Joe won hands down again for me. Pavlik likes to walk forwards, Calzaghe likes to counter punch, use his lateral movement and hit them with flurries from angles, Pavlik is just the kind of fighter Joe does well against, sure he can hit Joe, maybe even floor him, but noone has looked anything like KOing Joe, not once, and he has fought equal or bigger hitter than Pavlik at higher weight classes. Plus Pavlik has done nothing to suggest any sort of unorthodox ability, he is a good solid come forward fighter, but not particularly special in anything other than his consistency, kind of like Kessler.

Yeah, It Is hard to look good when the other guy just wants to spoil and cheat. Froch looked bad against Barney because he came to spoil.

Plus Joe thrives off come forward fighters and It's easy to see Joe will win easy against Pavlik.

Max, you're an idiot, you are to this thread what Jade Goody is to philosophy.

There are so many contradictions in your posts. And the Gatti argument is breathtakingly bad.

There is a height and weight difference, a significant one, and Pavlik is a much better boxer. He also delivers when he steps up in class and has the ability to adapt. Unlike Gatti v DLH or Mayweather for example. He just got blitzed.

JC would have to be at his very best to beat Pavlik.

[Captain Hook]

Bloody hell Ted you agreed with me, you must be drunk

[Captain Hook]

Bloody hell Ted you agreed with me, you must be drunk

Not yet mate i at effing work and just missed out on thing called "club lunch" which would of meant on the slash from 1pm. nyway i said some things on reflection i shouldn't of but he shit happens.. I always had the impression that Max thought he was some sort of guru on boxing but his posts lately have been shocking.

He thinks he's a guru, God bless him.

At least he's keen....

[Autobarn]

Well, it looks like Joe has "turned the fight down" according to the fight/<news article.

Calzaghe rejects Pavlik fight!
The proposed October 18 superfight between WBC/WBA/WBO super middleweight champ Joe Calzaghe and WBC/WBO middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik appears to be off. "I think it's unlikely," Calzaghe told the South Wales Argus. "I'm not sure if Pavlik really wants to face me at the moment. He would have little to gain because I believe I would definitely beat him and, with respect to Gary Lockett, I would be a step-up too far for Pavlik." Calzaghe called a clash with Roy Jones Jr. "the right fight for me at the moment."

[Chambers2]

Well, it looks like Joe has "turned the fight down" according to the fight/<news article.

Calzaghe rejects Pavlik fight!
The proposed October 18 superfight between WBC/WBA/WBO super middleweight champ Joe Calzaghe and WBC/WBO middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik appears to be off. "I think it's unlikely," Calzaghe told the South Wales Argus. "I'm not sure if Pavlik really wants to face me at the moment. He would have little to gain because I believe I would definitely beat him and, with respect to Gary Lockett, I would be a step-up too far for Pavlik." Calzaghe called a clash with Roy Jones Jr. "the right fight for me at the moment."

I'm abit gutted to be honest, Calzaghe-Pavlik is a far better fight than Calzaghe-Jones. Jones is by far the easier option IMO.

[Abbo]

I think Pavlik by stoppage, not KO.

If Joe isnt winning on points then I can see Pavlik forcing a sympathy stoppage late on.