Big John Tate

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 13 Jun 2008, 23:23

Hey guys

Out of all of the alphabet gang from the late 70s and through the 80s, it is
John Tate who I know the least about and have seen the least fights of.

Would you guys be able to tell me about him... what you recall, impressions,
experiences and so on/

It would be greatly appreciated

Kym

Jaybird · Post by **Jaybird** » 14 Jun 2008, 20:07

I always liked Big John. Born in West Memphis Ark, or Marion ,ARK , where he's buried... then hooked up with Ace Miller as a teen in Knoxville, TN. John had good skills I always thought. but kind of slow and robotic. Not alot of power either for a guy 6' 4" 240lbs. And of course a bad chin. He would prove to not be mentally fit when defeat arose as well.He was moved along the division very well. The right opponents at the right time. Fought in a 4 man title elimination. He KO'd Kallie Knoetze, and Gerrie Coetzee Ko'd Leon Spinks in 1 round which set up Tate-Coetzee in 79. Tate won on points. Tate never got over the Weaver loss in his hometown, a fight, most know he was cruising to a victory and a few million dollar fight with Ali (if he unretired) Then the loss to Berbick did him in , except for a few wins in about a 6 year span, until he lost a decision in 88 I believe to a European, can't think of his name.

Overall? Good skills, very good stamina, not a big puncher and a bit plodding. I always liked him though, sad story. I have an original copy of Weaver-Tate with prefight interviews.

Jay

Jaybird · Post by **Jaybird** » 14 Jun 2008, 20:34

By the way may dad took me to Weaver-Tate, March 31, 1980 when I was 7. I've been to a few Holyfield fights and none of them were as electric as Big John's crowd at Stokley Coliseum that night...

Jay

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 14 Jun 2008, 23:52

Thanks for that Jaybird/

Realrobroy · Post by **Realrobroy** » 15 Jun 2008, 01:17

Here is a link to Eastside...(change the xx to tt)
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=10927&more=1
Puts all you might want to know about Big John in clear text. He was a kinda hero of mine when I was a teen always cam through and no one had a bad word to say about him , nor did he ever disgrace himself .... till he failed to come through against Weaver .By that point he had a warm spot in my heart and I felt for him in his downfall. He was never ( at least to my knowledge ) associated with any crime or vice after he fell out of grace . Class.Not all can deal with defeat and tragic fall from stardom and still maintain class.Hats off to you Big John !

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 15 Jun 2008, 01:47

Thank you for that

Jaybird · Post by **Jaybird** » 15 Jun 2008, 12:45

yEAH, That's it, Quarless..who i think Lewis KO'd in 2...Thanks Merc...Robinson, there was an outstanding article on Tate not long after his death in ring, I still have it if you want a copy

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 16 Jun 2008, 03:51

I put up Quarless vs Eklund for your enjoyment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsQ-lx9pKZ0

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 16 Jun 2008, 04:08

Love your vids Collins

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 16 Jun 2008, 15:54

I remember Tate blowing out Duane Bobick in the first round on TV. That sort of put him in the big time. He deserves more credit than he gets for beating Coatzee on South Africa in front of a huge crowd.

You wonder what would have happened with his career if he had hung on and beat Weaver. He sort of went into a funk after that.

Does anyone else remember his fight with Berbick? If I remember accurately, at one point, Tate actually started to run away from Berbick and Berbick started to chase him!

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 16 Jun 2008, 16:21

Ambling Alp wrote:I remember Tate blowing out Duane Bobick in the first round on TV. That sort of put him in the big time. He deserves more credit than he gets for beating Coatzee on South Africa in front of a huge crowd.

You wonder what would have happened with his career if he had hung on and beat Weaver. He sort of went into a funk after that.

Does anyone else remember his fight with Berbick? If I remember accurately, at one point, Tate actually started to run away from Berbick and Berbick started to chase him!

I remeber that fight, it was on the Leonard - Duran 1 undercard.
I think that Trevor hurt him with a shot or two and Tate turned around and started to stagger away only to get clocked again .
Sometimes a guy gets hit hard and kinda losses his bearings. The legs dont cooperate.
At least that is how I recall it.
Tate had good skills and he was a good fighter.
I remember Teofilo Stevenson belting him out in the olympics though.
A delayed type of ko off a big right hand from Teo.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 17 Jun 2008, 03:36

Jaybird wrote:And of course a bad chin.

Bad chin??

He beat one of the hardest hitters of the 80s in Gerrie Coetzee to win his belt (in front of 80, 000 south africans rooting for him to fail)

To question his chin or his mental toughness considering who he had to beat and how to win his title is naive in the extreme IMO.

His first defence was against another puncher, Mike Weaver, and his chin held up til the last rd when he was dead tired and nailed with a shot that would fell anyone.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 19 Jun 2008, 10:17

Actually, it was raining during the Tate-Coetzee fight. Tate had the right kind of shoes and Gerrie did not. At one point, Coetzee nailed Tate and would have finished him, but slipped on the wet canvas.

The win by Berbick over Tate was a great one for Canadian boxing fans. Most experts figured Tate would at least eke out a decision over the brawny battler from Halifax, but Berbick was relentless and finally got to Tate up against the ropes where he finished him.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 20 Jun 2008, 16:11

Cap wrote:Actually, it was raining during the Tate-Coetzee fight. Tate had the right kind of shoes and Gerrie did not. At one point, Coetzee nailed Tate and would have finished him, but slipped on the wet canvas.

Disagree with this. I have the fight on tape.

The rain and hurting Tate and being close to finishing him seems fabricated.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 22 Jun 2008, 07:57

The fight was outdoors it was either raining or had just stopped, because the canvas was soaking wet. You were obviously watching some other fight or are suffering from the DTs.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 22 Jun 2008, 08:33

Nope. I do have the fight.

'Blaming' Tates win or Coetzees inability to knock him out on shoes is weak.

Maybe Tate was just the better man that night? It certainly looks that way to anyone who has the fight.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 23 Jun 2008, 03:47

I put up Quarless vs John L. Gardner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emgWXHIqhyo

fatcity69 · Post by **fatcity69** » 23 Jun 2008, 14:37

Tates story is very tragic... I think he succumbed to drugs after the defeats to Weaver and Berbick... with hindsight Berbick was hardly a safe fight for Tate to come back too... I wouldnt say Tate had a bad chin at all... he took good whacks from Coetzee and from Weaver and Berbick before the end... imo he was simply worn down by both Weaver and Berbick... both of whom had good stamina... Tate was a little muscle bound and those type of fighters can tire... but the real problem with Tate is he never recovered from the Weaver and Berbick koes... both of which were bad knockouts...
I believe he was found to have a brain tumour after his death... whether this had any connection to his boxing career and his two defeats who knows...
I actually saw his fight with Quarless and despite being 280 and obviously well gone Tate still had some class in there... at his best he had a lovely jab and was good to watch... people forget that he had been compared to joe louis early in his career... and looking at his style you could see why... shame things worked out the way they did for him, he deserved better from life...

fatcity69 · Post by **fatcity69** » 23 Jun 2008, 14:40

Quarless was a real live wire... great punch and very fast hands... if he was around now he's be protected and brought along slowly and would probably be a sensation over here... trouble is he had a very poor chin and that always finds you out eventually... but if he was around today he'd go further... maybe fight at cruiser even... cant remember his weight off hand but he was not the biggest of heavies...

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 24 Jun 2008, 07:19

mercman wrote:
I put up Quarless vs John L. Gardner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emgWXHIqhyo
Nice one Collins. It is funny how the memory plays tricks though. I remembered that the referee stopped the fight rather than Gardner being KOd but I always thought that Quarless had knocked John L down with that big right before the ref jumped in. I didn't realise that Gardner stayed on his feet throughout. Good decision by the referee though. Quarless laid some heavy leather on Gardner at the end.

Good decision by Gardner to retire (and stay retired) afterwards too. With his 'pressing' style youth and fitness are the key. Its a terrible shame about what happened to Gardner in his retirement though. Apparently he became a pub landlord and got badly knifed at work. Bet the scumbag responsible thinks he's really hard.

Yes, Garder was finished by the time he met Noel. I have a few Gardner fights. I'll put up the one against the street fighting legend Paul Sykes soon.

I think Gardner came back to fight as he was short of money in The Canary Islands and Warren offered him a few large to fight on his shows. I recall he eventually had to sell up completely and come back to the Uk and I also recall what you say about him geting knifed. I hope he has ended up better that Sykes did. At his peak he was a good Euro level fighter but some way short of world class as a look at his record will confirm.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 26 Jun 2008, 04:14

Here's my copy of John L. Gardner vs Paul Sykes. Not quite as sharp as the others I have put up but it was before I started taping myself so it's a couple of generations from the master. Still OK though and the best copy we will see until the BBC start to realise there is money to be by making their archives available for download.

I'd forgotten about those hefty whacks Pyscho Sykes got in before his 40 fags and a gallon of ale a day training routine kicked in. But the early rounds give some idea of what he could do and did to the bouncers around Wakefield before the council took out a restraining order to ban him from the city centre!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBepYdNWLL0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zV9IOaUm6M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-sFq9OrOFE

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 26 Jun 2008, 07:20

Im loving these vids Collins

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 26 Jun 2008, 07:45

You wouldn't happen to have Gardner against one of my all time favorites, Ibar Arrington? Arrington's career actually got some TV coverage in the US, but the Garnder fight was in London and wasn't carried in the states as far as I know.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 26 Jun 2008, 17:34

mercman wrote:
Here's my copy of John L. Gardner vs Paul Sykes. Not quite as sharp as the others I have put up but it was before I started taping myself so it's a couple of generations from the master. Still OK though and the best copy we will see until the BBC start to realise there is money to be by making their archives available for download.

I'd forgotten about those hefty whacks Pyscho Sykes got in before his 40 fags and a gallon of ale a day training routine kicked in. But the early rounds give some idea of what he could do and did to the bouncers around Wakefield before the council took out a restraining order to ban him from the city centre!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBepYdNWLL0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zV9IOaUm6M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-sFq9OrOFE
Just watched it. Enjoyed it - a good fight. Thanks Collins. That was Gardner somewhere around his peak: tough, relentless and grinding his man to defeat. By the time Gardner fought Quarless he was finished really. I think the pasting he took from Michael Doakes and the years of inactivity that followed must have taken their toll. Incidentally, did you know that Gardner was being lined up to fight Ali around 1980-81? But, instead Ali fought Berbick, and Gardner met the aforementioned Doakes. Had Ali v Gardner come off I'm is pretty sure he would have beaten Ali at this stage. Although Gardner was limited, Ali was totally gone by this stage and I coud see Gardner swarming all over him.

As for Sykes - who unfortunately was a really nasty piece of work - he seemed to fight the wrong fight against Garnder. By going toe to toe with him, Sykes played to his opponents strengths. He had the height and reach and would have been better off getting behind the jab and fighting Gardner at a distance. I also think that Sykes came in too light for this fight at 15 stone. I think he was normally nearer to 16. Maybe, in keenness to do his best, he over-trained.

Glad you enjoyed it.

Yes, I recall Gardner being seriously considered as the opponent for Ali. He'd have certainly had a better chance of winning that fight than the one he did end up getting...

Regarding Sykes, the documentary "Paul Sykes At Large" gives a good picture of the complex man that he was. Extremely intelligent but also extremely violent when crossed, he could be having a discussion on the pros and cons of proportional representation one minute and the next he'd be hammering a bouncer who he thought had been looking at him the wrong way.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 26 Jun 2008, 17:37

The Great John L wrote:You wouldn't happen to have Gardner against one of my all time favorites, Ibar Arrington? Arrington's career actually got some TV coverage in the US, but the Garnder fight was in London and wasn't carried in the states as far as I know.

I've never seen the Arrington fight on anyone's list.

UK TV did show Gardner vs

Young
Gauwe
Ocasio
Dokes

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