Jones-Tarver II set for May 15...who wins?

[Eric the Viking]

(How does throwing less punches, landing less punches than your opponent whilst getting pinned in the corner and hit with flurries of punches constitute "winning the fight".

Where did you get the "landing less punches" statistic?

http://www.compuboxonline.com/stats/sta ... rver.shtml

Tarver landed 47 jabs, to Jones 17.

Jones (apparently) landed more power punches (not that I saw..)

But in total, Tarver was busier.

Ah, so you have no problem embracing the jab stat, but you reject the power punch stat. Now, I often disagree with the CompuBox PP stat partly because anything non-jab is classed as a power shot, but in Jones-Tarver, most of the power shots Jones got credit for were clean right-hand leads to the body (which you apparently missed, and which count just as much as shots to the head, BTW) whereas most of Tarver's were from his Leonard-style I'm-gonna-steal-the-round flurries, i.e. many of those were partially-blocked or hit shoulders & elbows. I'm not saying Tarver didn't land some hard shots - Jones' black left eye post-fight shows the effects of the shots that did land - but embracing the jab punchstat because you like it and rejecting the power shot stat because you don't is blatantly biased. Also, just looking at jones' face and saying he lost because he looked worse is bullshit - it's a fight, not a beauty contest. And body work doesn't tend to leave visible impressions like headshots. But there had to be *some* reason Tarver didn't press the issue for 3 minutes every round, and I think those that say "he didn't want it enough" or invent conspiracy theories to explain why that was are forgetting (or ignoring) that there was another guy in the ring that night, who, even though he was having arguably the toughest night of his career, was still doing some effective work, even though it left him so gassed he had to spend a good part of every round resting on the ropes and letting Tarver whale away at him.

As for Tarver being "busier," that doesn't mean sh*t if he's not actually *landing* more scoring blows as a result. The standard is "effective aggression," not "punches thrown." Mayorga was pretty busy against Spinks and landed the harder blows in the fight, but wasn't close to winning (still can't believe the 2 wanker judges that had it 114-114; they must've loved Mayo's "aggression," like you did Tarver's.)

Also, did you watch the fight with the sound on or off? Your fellow poster steve689 initially watched it with the sound on, said Tarver was blatantly robbed, then changed his mind after watching it sans commentary.

As for the rematch, if Jones is indeed again comfortable at 175, I see him winning a clear UD, perhaps even a KO if he manages to hurt Tarver and throws caution to the wind. But Tarver is a big, slick, skilled southpaw who has proved that beating Jones is the single most important thing in his life at the moment. So it might again not be an easy night for Jones, although if his tiredness in the first bout was indeed a result of the weightloss, it certainly shouldn't be harder. Tarver only landed effectively when Jones was against the ropes, and if Jones is fresh in the rematch, there won't be any need for him to try to rest on the ropes.

[bennie]

Golden Rule Of Boxing 101: Thou shalt never bet against Roy Jones.

You must be quids in after the Froch bet, MW. As TheGoods said, pick and choose the sure-fire winners and it's like taking candy from a baby. I wonder what the bookies will make of Hatton-Pinto? Pinto looks formidable on paper. But I can't see him beating Ricky.

Yes bennie, I had a good weekend all in all Looked a bit dodgy for Froch early on though.

Hatton is 1/4 over at Stan James - bit of a shot in the dark with an unknown puncher like Pinto though, I haven't seen anything of him. But like you say, Ricky should win this - or SN have made a serious error.

I like Vitali over Sanders defintely - but not at the odds I'm seeing at the moment.

http://www.stanjames.com/betnav/sportvi ... ame=Boxing

1/10 for Vitali! I suppose after a few moments reflection one would have to begrudingly agree with Stan James there (Corrie is now talking about retirement if he loses on the SkySports website, never a good sign before a fight).
I think Chris Byrd at 2/7 on Blue Square is okayish against Golota. Stan James have Byrd at 4/1.
Personally, I prefer betting on the British fights. Thanks to boxrec, we get to hear the gym gossip, the weigh-in news, etc which puts us in a much better position to gauge the outcome. Bet365.com are increasingly running those 'live' odds, where you can have a bet while the fight is in motion. I really like that.

[glittermonkey]

yeah i know what ya saying but if u read a bit harder you'll noticed i said the middle and super middleweight jones is the best ever. i don't include the light heavyweight version in that.

I read your post plenty hard enough.
I didn't really get my point across though. What i meant was if you take just a few years of a guys career and label him the best it leaves you open to all sorts of counter arguements.
As an example 'nasty' proclaims Tyson the best ever because of his early career.

As a fellow Jones fan do you think his DQ against Griffin was a little harsh?

[neil r]

Tarver won the first fight ...hopefully he gets the decision in the rematch.

agree 100% loftgroov. people will say that jones couldnt fight as badly as he did in the first fight and that tarver wont fight as good again. but sitting here trying to recall the fight from memory, i dont think jones fought as bad as many people think, similarly i think tarver still had a bit left in his tank and he dominated jones throughout. remember the post fight pics??

i really hope this fight will happen but as with every fight featuring rjj i wont believe it till i see them in the ring. im sure theres a few goalposts left that jones could manoever round yet.

its difficult to see what other fight is out there for jones. if he concentrates at heavy then who is there?? theres no way he'll touch a klitchko, ruiz hardly has any appeal after their first fight and ruizs box office, holyfields now a sad case and as for tyson then who the f*ck knows!! tyson seems to be agreeing to a comback fight at least once a month just now and if he was to agree to fight jones he'd surely want a couple of warm ups first so that could be some time away.

so for me it looks like the only fight out there just now is the tarver bout. i hope the beeb screen it again too. jim mcneilly could pretend to be ringside again!!

[shakermaker]

1st time I watched the fight (with commentary on) I had Tarver winning. When I watched it for the 2nd time without the sound on I gave a lot more rounds to Jones.......especially the early ones. Try it out........very strange fight but I think RJJR will be more dominating this time and win more clearly on points. Tarver going down once or twice in the process.

[Southpaw Stylist]

It was odd that Jones was the only one who didn't show at the press conference.

He's skipped press conferences plenty of times before, Stu. The guy simply has better ways to spend his time.

Yeah, he wasn't even at Winky's big win over Mosley - and he manages Winky.

He promotes Winky.

Winky is Tarver's best friend, so Jones wouldn't want to interrupt his training to go and commune with a man he is going to beat down on May 15th.

[Eric the Viking]

its difficult to see what other fight is out there for jones.

Besides Tarver, these are the 3 guys/weights I'd like to see Jones in against before he retires, in order of preference:

1) Toney@190

2) Hopkins@170-175

3) Jirov@190

[neil r]

its difficult to see what other fight is out there for jones.

Besides Tarver, these are the 3 guys/weights I'd like to see Jones in against before he retires, in order of preference:

1) Toney@190

2) Hopkins@170-175

3) Jirov@190

couple of good calls there eric. however i honestly dont feel toney would want a piece of jones. im sure james would make all the right noises but when push comes to shove i honestly think toney would know jones would have too much for him at any wieght. Peroanlly i think this would be a great match up.

Hopkins is fast gaining a reputation as a guy who is simply a nightmare to deal with ihn my opinion hes fast becoming the forgotten man of the 'bigger names' out there. I cant see the pay per view public buying what would be perceived as a pretty one sided fight, in numbers big enough to make this a fight which would appeal to either roy or bernard judging by the kind of purses both expect these days

Jirov, i think, falls into the same category. would be a great bout for for boxing fans but lacks the real public appeal to make the money.

After all jones has made it clear that hes only interested in making mega bucks now, which is why hes shouting for tyson, who rightly or wrongly the public would snap up.

the tarver fight will make him the money on the back of the first fight. plus jones has had his ego well kicked around regarding the result.

but your right. any of the above would make good fights but i just cant see them happening. after all jones would argue that hopkins, toney and jirov need him more than he needs them.

by the way does anyone know the purses for this fight?

[steve689]

I am tempted to sway for Tarver like i did first time round but i doubt Jones will lose this time but i do not think he will stop Tarver it will probably be a wide points margin. Contrary to what i felt at the time (and BBC's commentaty helped fuel this) Jones won the first fight, i'm big enough to say i was wrong John Rawling's "That is a disgraceful decision" or whatever he said at the end helped fuel my rage :P Seriously i watched the HBO version with a clear head and Jones won the fight...remember i am no major Roy Jones fan although i do appreciate his talent i think he will win the rematch more comfortably but i will be supporting Tarver. I like him as a fighter, he is smooth and classy and very skilled and was a top class amateur, he has the tools to win but Jones has more championship experience Jones U12 Tarver.

[Southpaw Stylist]

The thing is, and I urge you to liste to this commentary again, I'm sure John Rawling scored the fight a draw. In fact, I'm 99% certain he did.

[steve689]

Ok i was wrong (again!) but i am sure Rawling and McKenzie's commentary induced subconscious Roy Jones hating within me, they certainly made it feel closer than it was.

[MightyWarrior]

The thing is, Roy Jones is a boxing icon already. His title is P4P number #1, like it or not.

So........if you plan to take that title off Roy, you better make sure you do it big time, without any room for doubt.
Good or bad, that's always the way it's been in such a subjective sport as boxing.
And Tarver clearly did not. So I've got no problems with the judges giving it to Roy in this instance. Mr Tarver just didn't do enough I'm afraid.

[Southpaw Stylist]

Exactly.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Problem is, Tarver wasn't taking on Jones for the title, it's the other way around, which people seem to overlook, Tarver was hanging onto the title against Jones. However, most people, the judges included, viewed the belts as being on loan, and that Jones was the rightful owner.

I do think judges are influenced heavily by the status of the fighters, I was surprised Winky wasn't shafted against Mosley.

[steve richards]

I think Jones will destroy Tarver now he has stayed at the weight, instead of boiling down from heavy, maybe if Calzaghe wins the IBF he may get a crack.

[Southpaw Stylist]

Problem is, Tarver wasn't taking on Jones for the title, it's the other way around, which people seem to overlook, Tarver was hanging onto the title against Jones. However, most people, the judges included, viewed the belts as being on loan, and that Jones was the rightful owner.

I do think judges are influenced heavily by the status of the fighters, I was surprised Winky wasn't shafted against Mosley.

It's not the belts that matter, it's the title of the "people's champion". TRoy was that.

[hitman_hatton1]

As a fellow Jones fan do you think his DQ against Griffin was a little harsh?

the griffin fight is a tough one i can never tell whether griffin slumps down on purpose or not i've gone thru it many times on tape and i can't tell???

jones just got a little carried away when he had griffin hurt and the blood was flowing so to speak and he whacked in those 2 shots as griffin was down.

i suppose the ref didn't have much of a choice but to disqualify him he was just careless there, there was no malice to it.

[Eric the Viking]

As a fellow Jones fan do you think his DQ against Griffin was a little harsh?

i suppose the ref didn't have much of a choice but to disqualify him he was just careless there, there was no malice to it.

It was clearly a DQable offense, and whether Griff was really hurt by the 2 shots he took while down or not, he sure *acted* hurt, i.e. didn;t really leave the ref the choice of simply deducting a point from Jones.

But I believe there's a very real question as to whether the ref properly signaled a knockdown, which muddles the issue further. The ref wasn't close to the action until after Jones landed the 2 late shots, and if you watch the tape, you can clearly see Jones hesitate when Griffin drops to a knee, at which point the ref should have at least YELLED "knockdown", even if he was too far away to step between the fighters. Sure, Jones should've had the sense to stop as soon as Griff took the knee, but as you said, in the heat of battle... Most fighters are conditioned to only listen for 2 things during the fight - the instructions of their corner, and of the referee. But if the ref fails to do his job, they can't DQ him, can they?

[glittermonkey]

As a fellow Jones fan do you think his DQ against Griffin was a little harsh?

i suppose the ref didn't have much of a choice but to disqualify him he was just careless there, there was no malice to it.

It was clearly a DQable offense, and whether Griff was really hurt by the 2 shots he took while down or not, he sure *acted* hurt, i.e. didn;t really leave the ref the choice of simply deducting a point from Jones.

But I believe there's a very real question as to whether the ref properly signaled a knockdown, which muddles the issue further. The ref wasn't close to the action until after Jones landed the 2 late shots, and if you watch the tape, you can clearly see Jones hesitate when Griffin drops to a knee, at which point the ref should have at least YELLED "knockdown", even if he was too far away to step between the fighters. Sure, Jones should've had the sense to stop as soon as Griff took the knee, but as you said, in the heat of battle... Most fighters are conditioned to only listen for 2 things during the fight - the instructions of their corner, and of the referee. But if the ref fails to do his job, they can't DQ him, can they?

I've watched the tape closely a few times today, and for me the DQ is still a little harsh.
After Griffin takes the second punch and the ref steps in, he clearly points towards Jones and says something to the ref before he slumps to the floor.
It's my belief that Griffin saw a way out of the fight and took it. Had he got to his feet i think the ref would have settled for deducting a point.