National Junior Olympics

[Dennis]

Is anyone up there who wants to tell the rest of us about the bouts?

Who are the boxers who appear to be future stars in the open division?

Just from what I have seen at other tournaments, I would say that Eric DeLeon at 125, Michael Finney at 132, Zeddie Adams at 138 and Donald Anderson at 165 all have the skills to potentially shine at the next level.

Even though Daniel Smith (201+) is from Michigan, I don't recall seeing him box. He usually gets a bye at the state level.

[the_boxer]

yea dan is good i boxed with him for a while i think hes going to win .. he also fought nick who won jo's nationals last year at 201+

[Dennis]

yea dan is good i boxed with him for a while i think hes going to win .. he also fought nick who won jo's nationals last year at 201+

Did he only box Kisner the one time in the 2007 Nat'l Silver Gloves or did they box each other some other time too? How was that bout? I know Kisner won, but was it close?

Has he boxed any other guys who have move into the senior ranks?

I will looking forward to hearing how Dan Smith does in the Golden Gloves next year.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

We had a boxer at the JO's that had an interesting introduction to computer scoring. I am all for computer scoring because it tends to highlight punches that count and not a lot of the slaps and flurries. However, in his second bout he lost by 1pt on the computer scoring but won on 3 judges raw score cards. I'm just not that familiar with this scoring system, but I have to guess this isn't very common. Anyone else had this experience with computer scoring.

[Dennis]

We had a boxer at the JO's that had an interesting introduction to computer scoring. I am all for computer scoring because it tends to highlight punches that count and not a lot of the slaps and flurries. However, in his second bout he lost by 1pt on the computer scoring but won on 3 judges raw score cards. I'm just not that familiar with this scoring system, but I have to guess this isn't very common. Anyone else had this experience with computer scoring.

Yes, I have experienced it with my son. One time he lost a tie-breaker that he would have won on paper scoring. Another time he lost by 1 or 2 points and again would have won on paper scoring. All that means is the bout is very, very close. I have also experienced a loss on clicker-paper scoring that probably would have been a victory had the computer scoring been used because of the types of punches that get counted. Again these types of anomolies only happen in bouts that are extemely close. The answer is to not let them be close!

[Dennis]

To show how good these young boxers are, you only have to look at Zeddie Adams. He won the 2007 Nat'l JO Championship and is back in the finals again this year. He defeated a very good boxer last year in the championship round, Emmanuel Taylor from Maryland. Taylor then went to the 2008 US Championships and made it to the finals. He lost a close bout, 9-7, to Dan O'Connor. O'Connor is very skilled and just won the '08 NGG. So what does this say about Zeddie? He is very good and a lot of open-class boxers had better watch out once he turns 17. I fully expect him to be competing at the elite level in the open-class next year.

[boxmel]

but won on 3 judges raw score cards

Just curious - since the paper scoring is NEVER shown, and shredded immediately after each bout, how did you know what the paper scoring was?

[Dennis]

but won on 3 judges raw score cards

Just curious - since the paper scoring is NEVER shown, and shredded immediately after each bout, how did you know what the paper scoring was?

He means (as did I) that based upon the raw score for the judges that did the computer scoring and not actually the separate judges sitting there doing the paper scoring. Yes, nobody ever sees their scores unless the computer malfunctions (which has happened on occasion).

[boxmel]

He means (as did I) that based upon the raw score for the judges that did the computer scoring and not actually the separate judges sitting there doing the paper scoring. Yes, nobody ever sees their scores unless the computer malfunctions (which has happened on occasion).

What is shown is the End of Bout report and there is no way that three judges can have a raw score for one boxer and three judges have an accepted score for the other boxer. I really do think he's talking about the paper judging that is only used if the computer goes down and, if that's the case, I was wondering how he saw, or knew about, the scoring.

[locoxelbox]

In the (in)famous Rafael Lozano-Eric Griffin bout at the 1992 Olympics all FIVE judges had Griffin as a winner but he lost a 6:5 decision. This is very rae but happen on occasion. Specially in low scoring bouts I'd believe.

[boxmel]

Please explain how he could have all 5 judges having him win and then lose on a 6-5?

[NYboxing]

I googled and found this story:

Excerpts from an article in the August 2, 1992 Boston _Globe_:

"Judges Not Quick to Punch; Computer KO's Griffin"

BADALONA, Spain -- Science lied yesterday.

Five judges watching American light flyweight Eric Griffin fight Spaniard
Rafael Lozano ... said the gold medal favorite had advanced as expected into
the quarterfinals. Three said he did it by a wide margin. ...

A computer said differently. The computer lied.

What the computer insisted ... was that Eric Griffin was a 6-5 loser. And
for the moment at least, that decision will stand, regardless of the opinion of
the five men who actually watched the fight. ...

Actually, after a review of the scorecards, it seemed more like some kind of
computer glitch, but the result was the same. Elimination of a fighter.
Destruction of a dream. Sorry about that. ...

Under the scoring system, at least two judges must hit a button that
registers a scoring point within a second after the first judge does. If the
do not, the point is not awarded by the main frame computer, even though each
point will be recorded individually.

The individual judges scored the match 10-9, 26-17, 18-9, 19-10, and 8-5.

Guess the judges' only agreed on 6 scoring blows for Lozano, 5 for Griffin despite having him "winning" the fight

[locoxelbox]

The individual judges scored the match 10-9, 26-17, 18-9, 19-10, and 8-5.

Thanks NY, I didn't have the numbers. It's nothing strange. The judges simply don't agree on which are the scoring punches. All "see" who is the winner but they press the buttons for different punches or don't coordinate (some hit too fast/slow). Anyway this isn't very common and it could be seen as one of the strengths of the computer cause if we assume the judges try to incline the result in favor of one boxer they still have to agree to make the computer score the punches.

[ZMOMMI]

We had a boxer at the JO's that had an interesting introduction to computer scoring. I am all for computer scoring because it tends to highlight punches that count and not a lot of the slaps and flurries. However, in his second bout he lost by 1pt on the computer scoring but won on 3 judges raw score cards. I'm just not that familiar with this scoring system, but I have to guess this isn't very common. Anyone else had this experience with computer scoring.

I was just curious if you were referring to the bout between Alantez and Zeddie? Zeddie fought Alantez day two of the National JO's.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Just curious - since the paper scoring is NEVER shown, and shredded immediately after each bout, how did you know what the paper scoring was?

We were definitely shown the raw scores after the bout. In fact, it was the next day.

I was just curious if you were referring to the bout between Alantez and Zeddie? Zeddie fought Alantez day two of the National JO's.

Yes. That's the bout that I was referring to. Close bout in the judges eyes. What did you think?

[boxmel]

We were definitely shown the raw scores after the bout. In fact, it was the next day.

Weird. However, on the computer End of Bout report, there is no way that the raw score can have all five judges scoring a win for the loser. Just doesn't work that way.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

We were definitely shown the raw scores after the bout. In fact, it was the next day.

Weird. However, on the computer End of Bout report, there is no way that the raw score can have all five judges scoring a win for the loser. Just doesn't work that way.

I think the "all five judges" was the other example of Rafael Lozano-Eric Griffin bout that locoxelbox posted. In our bout, it was only 3 out of the 5 that had raw scores for our boxer.

[boxmel]

I

think the "all five judges" was the other example of Rafael Lozano-Eric Griffin bout that locoxelbox posted. In our bout, it was only 3 out of the 5 that had raw scores for our boxer.

That still doesn't make sense - if three out of the 5 had scored for the loser, the accepted score should reflect that, also. Oh well. I can't see the report so it's really a moot point, I guess. I think you're right about the "all five judges."

[ZMOMMI]

I

think the "all five judges" was the other example of Rafael Lozano-Eric Griffin bout that locoxelbox posted. In our bout, it was only 3 out of the 5 that had raw scores for our boxer.

That still doesn't make sense - if three out of the 5 had scored for the loser, the accepted score should reflect that, also. Oh well. I can't see the report so it's really a moot point, I guess. I think you're right about the "all five judges."

I was at the JO's. The bout with Zeddie and Alantez was a low scoring close bout. I believe that that are clear punches that were not counted for BOTH boxers. Alantez is one of those boxers that throw a lot of pitty pat flurries that dont get counted. I would not take anything from Tez though. The only punches that get counted are hard, precise punches that are seen clearly by all. Zeddie had the priviledge of learning the scoring system at last years JO's and when the team went to Azerbeijan. Alantez has a great height advantage over other boxers. His height really gave Zeddie problems. I still feel that Zeddie clearly won the fight. Zeddie talked with Tez and his father after the fight. The scoring issue was never brought up. I like the computer scoring. It tends to take human emotion, influence, and error out of scoring.

[Dennis]

Zeddie is a good boxer and knows how to land "scoring" blows. Good for him.

[boxmel]

I like the computer scoring. It tends to take human emotion, influence, and error out of scoring.

Hurray! Someone who understands the reason for the computer scoring!

[ZMOMMI]

Will the JO champions be boxing internationally this year? I was just wondering since the Olympic are in August.

[JMac]

Will the JO champions be boxing internationally this year? I was just wondering since the Olympic are in August.

There is a Pan American Cadet (U-17) Championships in Buenos Aires, Argentina in September. It's not on USA Boxing's calander though. There is no world championship scheduled by AIBA at the moment. AIBA does have the World Youth (U-19) Championships in Mexico in October and USAB does have that on their calander.