Anyone subscribe to.....

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 19 Mar 2004, 11:28

BOLLOCKS19842003 wrote:Boxingtalk.net is gonna be a paysite soon, so they can f**k off as well.

they got to make the money back from what they pay for their interviews.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Mar 2004, 11:30

Do they actually pay for their interviews? I've never paid for one before....

I always look at interviews as free publicity for the person being interviewed.

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 19 Mar 2004, 11:38

Southpaw Stylist wrote:I can't stand writers who have never actually been in the ring and FOUGHT. Not sparred, FOUGHT.

Why?

I've fought and I'm not a writer, so I think I have a right to comment on this without being accused of having a hidden agenda.

I don't think it matters a sniff if a boxing writer has fought or not. Providing his material is interesting and easy to read what's the problem?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Mar 2004, 11:41

Yes, that is the counter argument of course, that no boxer who hasn't written is fit to judge whether a piece is good or not...

Tracers work both ways as they say

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 19 Mar 2004, 11:45

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, that is the counter argument of course, that no boxer who hasn't written is fit to judge whether a piece is good or not

No that's not a good counter argument at all.

Whether a piece of writing is "good or not" is wholly subjective. What you think is superb, I might think is pathetic. No matter what you have been told or taught, that is a fact. Writing is an art, there is no set in stone good or bad. It's all down to personal opinion.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Mar 2004, 11:57

My point is that saying a writer who hasn't fought has no right to judge fighters, is tantamount to saying a fighter who has never

Neither argument is correct of course, we are all entitled to an opinion, and I would like to see who people think are the best sports writers, and then see how many of them were actual participants....

Hugh McIlvanney is probably my favourite along with Norman Mailer, and I don't seem to recall either of them being fighters, though Mailer got in a few scrapes...

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 19 Mar 2004, 12:35

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Hugh McIlvanney is probably my favourite along with Norman Mailer, and I don't seem to recall either of them being fighters, though Mailer got in a few scrapes...

Funny you mention those two, I was just about to say the same. Mailer has his critics, but you can't really fault the superb McIlvanney: even grouchy old Katz concedes he's one of the greats.
And I doubt the guy's ever thrown a punch in anger (Ok, maybe once or twice, he is Scottish after all ).
Steve's brother, Tony C of Boxing News, used to be a decent amateur boxer I seem to remember, and is now an excellent writer.
I doubt Claude or Bob Mee ever boxed.

And maxboxing easily has the best writers going at the moment.
boxingtalk is ok for interviews, but I'd never bother paying for it.
Their main guy Greg just spends the whole time sucking up to whichever fighter he happens interviewing.

Anyone read Bad Brad Berkwitt? Just terrible...

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 19 Mar 2004, 12:41

MW,
Pat Barrett had a fight with Claude Abrahms as an amateur.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 19 Mar 2004, 12:44

Did he?! I would've thought Barrett flattened him, Pat is one of the hardest punchers I've ever seen.
I know Claude sparred Naz early in his career, he said Naz was so fast he felt like he was on ice.

JimStone · Post by **JimStone** » 19 Mar 2004, 12:49

I'm not sure of the exact result (except that Pat won). Nuclear puncher.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 19 Mar 2004, 13:40

FlawedGenius wrote:I'm not sure of the exact result (except that Pat won). Nuclear puncher.

Barret was sheer class - one of my favorites. He hits 'like a fukcin mule' as Tyson once said.

I remember being really gutted watching his fight with Manning 'The Human Spider' Galloway. It was a really disappointing performance.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Mar 2004, 14:09

Without sounding pompous, boxing is a human psychodrama, watching two men in the ring is more than simply watching for the technical aspects, you're watching two people pitting their wills against one another, and in order to write well about that, you need both empathy and insight.

This is something that truly great sportswriters have, a streak of humanism in them, that allows them to write about a sport in a way that transcends the mere sporting competition, and allows non-fans to identify with the human drama which unfolds. Mailer and McIlvanney are two of the very best at this in my opinion....

It's not what everyone looks for in a sports writer though I must concede.

On a lighter, less verbose note, I did hear a story once about Hugh McIlvanney getting pissed on scotch and trying to twat someone, in fact, If I remember rightly, it was norman mailer!

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 19 Mar 2004, 15:56

Southpaw Stylist wrote:I can't stand writers who have never actually been in the ring and FOUGHT. Not sparred, FOUGHT.

"YOU DONT HAVE TO BE A FARMER TO KNOW IF THE MILKS SOUR"

AS SOMEONE OR OTHER ONCE MIGHT HAVE SAID!!

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 19 Mar 2004, 16:10

No I don't suscribe to anything since most of the internet stuff is free I just usually browse fightnews secounds out and BBN for the stories.

The internet is so quick I have even stopped buying Boxing News - sorry guys, it just I can get the stories quick on the internet.

I still subscribe to BM, the fact that their can have more time to prepare their articles still makes that a good option for me.

Before the internet I was a boxing news regular, now I think the likes of fightnews, SO and BBN supply me with similar info for free and quicker.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 19 Mar 2004, 16:18

Well certain writers who criticise fighters hearts etc yet they have never dared step in the ring. That pisses me off.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 20 Mar 2004, 06:21

Yeah, I understand where you are coming from Southpaw with your last comment - both Ferdie Pacheco and Jim Watt questioned Gerald McClellan's heart in his fight with Nigel Benn. You have got to criticize the former more than the latter, just because he has no fornicating idea what it must be like, whereas Jim does. Both were equally wrong though.

I totally disagree with your earlier comment though re boxing and writing.

Btw, I do like Norman Mailer for many reasons but he is desperately overrated as a writer, IMO.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 20 Mar 2004, 08:32

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote: Btw, I do like Norman Mailer for many reasons but he is desperately overrated as a writer, IMO.

Well Mailer hasn't written too much about boxing to be honest, he's mainly a fan of the big heavyweight fights.
I tried some of his other books and couldn't get through them, but "The Fight" is a brilliant book. It'd be hard not to write a great book in a setting like that: the most dramatic fight in boxing history taking place in the Africa jungle.
It was Mailer who challenged Liston to a fight, after Sonny called him a drunken bum at a press conference. Liston couldn't stop laughing as a pissed up Mailer yelled for him to step outside.

One of the best and funniest boxing writers has to be the great A J Liebling:

"Watching a fight on television has always seemed to me a poor substitute for being there. For one thing, you can't tell the fighters what to do. When I watch a fight, I like to study one boxer's problem, solve it, and communicate my solution vocally. On occasion my advice is disregarded, as when I tell a man to stay away from the other fellow's left and he doesn't, but in such cases I assume that he hasn't heard my councel, or that the other fellow has, and has acted on it. Some fighters hear better than others - for example Joe Louis. "Let him have it Joe!" I would yell whenever I saw him fight, and sooner of later he would let the other fellow have it."

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 20 Mar 2004, 10:05

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Yeah, I understand where you are coming from Southpaw with your last comment - both Ferdie Pacheco and Jim Watt questioned Gerald McClellan's heart in his fight with Nigel Benn. You have got to criticize the former more than the latter, just because he has no fornicating idea what it must be like, whereas Jim does. Both were equally wrong though.

I totally disagree with your earlier comment though re boxing and writing.

Btw, I do like Norman Mailer for many reasons but he is desperately overrated as a writer, IMO.

Sorry, I should have been more specific in the first place. The second post is what I meant. Writers who constantly criticise. Colin Hart is the best examlple of this. The man knows zilch about boxing, yet makes out he does.