Greg Page-Ruddock

[Expug]

Overhand Right and Bennie.
That is the name of the book. Thinkin Big.
I looked it up on line and its available at Amazon.
In the acknowledgements, he gives a shout out to his friend Johnny Lira.
They both trained at the old CYO gym .
It was in the late seventies , early eighties.
At that time I was boxing amateur.
I looked up to those two among others.
I remember Lira strutting into the gym after knocking out Andy Gannigan .
Somebody asked him about the fight and he said "as soon as Andy turned it into a streetfight, I knew I would knock him out."
As far as Tillis went, you should have seen him at this time.
He was in great shape and could really move.Great wheels.
He looked like a cant miss prospect.
Two others James mentions , Rory Oshea and Harry Wilson.
Good guys, Harry ran the gym at that time. Later it was Rorys brother Tommy Oshea and Sean Curtin.
These were great boxing people.
Rory,Brian and Tommy Oshea were all National Golden Glove champs in the early 60s.

[RazorKO]

I never thought about it but yes, Tillis probably would kayo Wlad.

He had the punch power to deck Greg Page, so he certainly can do same to Wlad.

He could also go 15 rds with a puncher, and had skills. Oh and look at him v Tyson.

Christ, Tillis would beat up Wlad!!

Tillis was a good fighter and I also believe he would become HW champ if he was around today. He was a nortorious front runner where he would dominate the early rounds, then eventually tire down the stretch to loose either by KO or decision. In his fights with Weaver, Thomas, Page and Carl Williams he won the early rounds easy until these opponents caught up with him.

[bennie]

Overhand Right and Bennie.
That is the name of the book. Thinkin Big.
I looked it up on line and its available at Amazon.
In the acknowledgements, he gives a shout out to his friend Johnny Lira.
They both trained at the old CYO gym .
It was in the late seventies , early eighties.
At that time I was boxing amateur.
I looked up to those two among others.
I remember Lira strutting into the gym after knocking out Andy Gannigan .
Somebody asked him about the fight and he said "as soon as Andy turned it into a streetfight, I knew I would knock him out."
As far as Tillis went, you should have seen him at this time.
He was in great shape and could really move.Great wheels.
He looked like a cant miss prospect.
Two others James mentions , Rory Oshea and Harry Wilson.
Good guys, Harry ran the gym at that time. Later it was Rorys brother Tommy Oshea and Sean Curtin.
These were great boxing people.
Rory,Brian and Tommy Oshea were all National Golden Glove champs in the early 60s.

Lira deserved more than one crack at a world title for beating Ganigan, who was a monster puncher and sparked O'Grady, of course (and floored Arguello). There was talk of Lira challenging Jim Watt in Glasgow but I'm not sure Johnny would have been allowed in by our somewhat stuffy Board.
I can still remember seeing Tillis at ringside at the Albert Hall in London in 1987 when he came over to fight Bruno. He was wearing this big cowboy hat and laughing and joking with fellow ringsiders, including mentor Beau Williford. He was just starting to fall into the 'opponent' category and later had a big bust-up with Williford but could undoubtedly fight. Every time I glanced at him I kept thinking about his famous suitcase story.

[Expug]

Overhand Right and Bennie.
That is the name of the book. Thinkin Big.
I looked it up on line and its available at Amazon.
In the acknowledgements, he gives a shout out to his friend Johnny Lira.
They both trained at the old CYO gym .
It was in the late seventies , early eighties.
At that time I was boxing amateur.
I looked up to those two among others.
I remember Lira strutting into the gym after knocking out Andy Gannigan .
Somebody asked him about the fight and he said "as soon as Andy turned it into a streetfight, I knew I would knock him out."
As far as Tillis went, you should have seen him at this time.
He was in great shape and could really move.Great wheels.
He looked like a cant miss prospect.
Two others James mentions , Rory Oshea and Harry Wilson.
Good guys, Harry ran the gym at that time. Later it was Rorys brother Tommy Oshea and Sean Curtin.
These were great boxing people.
Rory,Brian and Tommy Oshea were all National Golden Glove champs in the early 60s.

Lira deserved more than one crack at a world title for beating Ganigan, who was a monster puncher and sparked O'Grady, of course (and floored Arguello). There was talk of Lira challenging Jim Watt in Glasgow but I'm not sure Johnny would have been allowed in by our somewhat stuffy Board.
I can still remember seeing Tillis at ringside at the Albert Hall in London in 1987 when he came over to fight Bruno. He was wearing this big cowboy hat and laughing and joking with fellow ringsiders, including mentor Beau Williford. He was just starting to fall into the 'opponent' category and later had a big bust-up with Williford but could undoubtedly fight. Every time I glanced at him I kept thinking about his famous suitcase story.

Thanks Bennie.
He used to wear that cowboy hat everywhere.
That suitcase story is a classic also.

[Nile4000]

I never thought about it but yes, Tillis probably would kayo Wlad.

He had the punch power to deck Greg Page, so he certainly can do same to Wlad.

He could also go 15 rds with a puncher, and had skills. Oh and look at him v Tyson.

Christ, Tillis would beat up Wlad!!

Tillis was a good fighter and I also believe he would become HW champ if he was around today. He was a nortorious front runner where he would dominate the early rounds, then eventually tire down the stretch to loose either by KO or decision. In his fights with Weaver, Thomas, Page and Carl Williams he won the early rounds easy until these opponents caught up with him.

Page almost had him ready to go in the first, but it was a very good fight while it lasted.

[Nile4000]

I liked Page-Snipes. In fact all of Page's fights are pretty samey. You either like his skills, and get annoyed by his attitude, or you don't. Most people do.

Although he was no Dokes

Page-Snipes was a good fight.I always felt that Greg's best fight was against Marty Monroe, and you definitely called it right on the head on his fights.I would've liked to seen him fight Dokes, since I felt his skills were better than Dokes, but Dokes was more dedicated to the game.

[overhand_right]

Dokes was iced by Coetzee in his own backyard.

Page went over to Coetzees backyard and well & truly mugged him, 3 or 4 knockdowns capped off by a nice kayo that could of been given a 100 count.

Page at his best brings way more to the table than Dokes.

[The Great John L]

Despite very good hand speed, Dokes was not a great boxer, and actually preferred trading because it was much simpler than trying to figure out how to hit and not get hit. He’s from my area (Akron) so I got to watch him grow through the amateur ranks. Bak in the days when there actually was amateur boxing. As he established himself, he became quite a local celebrity and was often times introduced at ringside of small local fight shows. And this was when he was still in high school.

Anyway, he was quite a sensation as a teenager, and became a very fancy dresser. Rumor was that he made his own clothes; although I never asked if this was true, assuming that it was nothing more than rumor. He quickly became somewhat of a national celebrity as well getting featured on a few ABC amateur fight cards, and eventually was matched up against Stevenson. Of course, at the time Dokes was the AAU 177 pound champ, so he probably gave up about 25 lbs in the fight, but he did not back down from the great Cuban HW, and was stopped. He did land quite a few solid shots before getting stopped. Like many of his pro fights to come, it was very entertaining.

Besides never really liking the training aspect of boxing, Dokes also had a strong attraction to the night life, and really struggled with conditioning and focus as he aged. A former neighbor of mine worked security at many of Dokes parties when he was in town, and it was well known that he did little training for the Coetzee fight. I’m not making any excuses for him, because that’s just who he was.

As an aside, it was very disappointing attending that fight. The Coliseum was probably only about half full and I think quite a few tickets were given away in the days just prior to the fight. I know Dokes was very disappointed, but I guess that was just an indication that boxing’s popularity was declining in the area. And of course as we all know it wasn’t just this part of the country.

[Ambling Alp]

I don't remember his fights when he was first starting; the first fight that I recall him in was the draw against Ocasio. Ocasio actually had a good reputation at the time and that was a decent showing for Dokes. Then he blew him out in the rematch and really seemed to be a major player.
Both those fights were on national TV.
I do think that he was lucky to get the decision against Chaplin; which could have gone either way. (Chaplin gave Page a lot of trouble as well)

If you would have asked almost any fan from 1980-1982 if they toguht Dokes and age would fight, almost everyone would say yes. They seemed to be the next big stars in the heavyweight division. It's hard to believe that they never fought each other or fought Holmes either.

What I never understood is why Dokes didn't fight any big names for so long after losing to Coetzee. He just sort of faded away and was fighting journeyman for a long time until he fought Holyfield six years later.

[overhand_right]

I thought Dokes beat George Chaplin easily -- wasn't it Page who twice struggled with Chaplin?

Then again everybody struggled with Chaplin in his day, he was such a hard target and negative fighter.

[The Great John L]

What I never understood is why Dokes didn't fight any big names for so long after losing to Coetzee. He just sort of faded away and was fighting journeyman for a long time until he fought Holyfield six years later.

Dokes liked to party rather than train.

[wouter]

I believe Dokes first had a cocaine habit to get rid off, then starting with the K.P. Porter fight made serious work of his comeback; gradually increasing the level of opposition. The little old manager Terry D. was referring to was Marty Cohen.

[Expug]

A word about Greg Page . As you know he was hurt badly in his last fight.
A couple years ago we hosted a benefit for him.
A martial arts demonstration,at the dojo I instruct at. we charged the public to come watch and of course a few boxing people from the area came and made donations.We sent the money to him and his wife .
I mention this because his wife, a wonderful woman named Pat, sent a personal thank you note to every single person who made a donation.
It was quite a few people.Very classy lady.

[Robinson]

I always found that sad about what happened to Page.
That was pretty decent and ncie of you Pug to do that
for Greg and his family. Its always one of those tragedies
when a top man of the ring gets ill or falls on hard times
is unable to support themselves properly.

It scares me now when I see Tony Tubbs or Holyfield
sticking about and fighting. I wonder if they ever see
what happened to Greg page as a lesson, I suppose
they tend to look at the success of George Foreman and
hope to emulate it.

[Expug]

Its always buggesd me that Jerry Quarry fought again in 1992 .
We all know how his final years turned out.
That fight , a 6 round loss to a guy who he would have belted out in 1 round in better times was
a travesty and could not have helped matters.
The fight was in Colorado .
There was a little documentary on tv that was made shortly before Jerry died.
He was living with his Mom and he was in bad shape.
The guy hosting the show asked him how he wound up in the condition he was in .
Jerry said "football".
It was very sad and disturbing.

[wouter]

If a man passes his medicals, he should be aloowed to fight. I'd say a 50-year old Holyfield or Tubbs is still less likely to get hurt than most of their younger (and less skilled) counterparts. One of the problems though is that - while losing some of their skills - these older fighters retain their name and are therefore frequently overmatched. A win over Holyfield always looks on your record.

[Cap]

Yes. No matter how badly their skills and brains have eroded, if some jurisdiction in some hick state will pass him, a fighter should be allowed to fight no matter how old or decrepit he may be......

[wouter]

Yes. No matter how badly their skills and brains have eroded, if some jurisdiction in some hick state will pass him, a fighter should be allowed to fight no matter how old or decrepit he may be......

Provided he passes a sound medical examination he should be allowed to fight. How far someone's skills have eroded is totally irrelevant: Holyfield at 50 is still 10 times better skillwise than Joe Blow at 25

[wouter]

How far someone's skills have eroded is totally irrelevant.

Unless they have eroded to a level that is not acceptable for ANY fighter.

[dempseyfire]

When we support a fight we are fine with him entering into a fight to take a potentially aging beating, in fact we call these fights great. Then we get all squeamish when the risk ratio goes up, we then want to play rule maker.

If they pass a medical then they can fight. An aged fighter may get iced with a single shot. A young fighter may take a vicious beating for round after round.

It is hypocritical to take the moral high ground as soon as a fight hits old age.

Why? Does it not make sense to be more hesistant when the risk ratio DOES go up?? We all know boxing in itself has some dangers, but the risk of injury rises when a guy loses reflexes/has already taken an incredible amount of punishment throughout his career. The difference between Holyfield and your 25 year old Joe Blow is that Joe didn't take concussive punches over a 20 year time span from Qawi, Foreman, Dokes, Bowe, Tyson, Lewis, Rahman etc.

I do not believe Holyfield should be fighting at all anymore.

[wouter]

The difference between Holyfield and your 25 year old Joe Blow is that Joe didn't take concussive punches over a 20 year time span from Qawi, Foreman, Dokes, Bowe, Tyson, Lewis, Rahman etc.

Once again, my point is that the neurological status should be the discriminating factor - not age or the fact that fighter X 'used to be whole lot better.'

[overhand_right]

Yeah but Jerry Quarry actually failed basic sparring sessions with a novice before a commission. He failed basic neuroligical tests in the 80s -- so should of obviously been barred from fighting in 1992.

Can anyone recall the details on how he got licensed.

It should be noted in Greg Pages case he was clearly well past it in his loss to Robert Davis, and where he was sadly injured in Kentucky the regulation is apparently very lax.

[raylawpc]

Yeah but Jerry Quarry actually failed basic sparring sessions with a novice before a commission. He failed basic neuroligical tests in the 80s -- so should of obviously been barred from fighting in 1992.

Can anyone recall the details on how he got licensed.

It should be noted in Greg Pages case he was clearly well past it in his loss to Robert Davis, and where he was sadly injured in Kentucky the regulation is apparently very lax.

He didn't. In 1992, Colorado did not have a boxing commission.

The whole sorry episode is chronicled in David E. Finger, Rocky Lives! Heavyweight Boxing Upsets of the 1990s (2005) at pages 67-71.

[Nile4000]

I thought Dokes beat George Chaplin easily -- wasn't it Page who twice struggled with Chaplin?

Then again everybody struggled with Chaplin in his day, he was such a hard target and negative fighter.

Michael actually floored Chaplin in that fight.But Greg did do better against Jimmy Young than Michael did.

[Nile4000]

Despite very good hand speed, Dokes was not a great boxer, and actually preferred trading because it was much simpler than trying to figure out how to hit and not get hit. He’s from my area (Akron) so I got to watch him grow through the amateur ranks. Bak in the days when there actually was amateur boxing. As he established himself, he became quite a local celebrity and was often times introduced at ringside of small local fight shows. And this was when he was still in high school.

Anyway, he was quite a sensation as a teenager, and became a very fancy dresser. Rumor was that he made his own clothes; although I never asked if this was true, assuming that it was nothing more than rumor. He quickly became somewhat of a national celebrity as well getting featured on a few ABC amateur fight cards, and eventually was matched up against Stevenson. Of course, at the time Dokes was the AAU 177 pound champ, so he probably gave up about 25 lbs in the fight, but he did not back down from the great Cuban HW, and was stopped. He did land quite a few solid shots before getting stopped. Like many of his pro fights to come, it was very entertaining.

Besides never really liking the training aspect of boxing, Dokes also had a strong attraction to the night life, and really struggled with conditioning and focus as he aged. A former neighbor of mine worked security at many of Dokes parties when he was in town, and it was well known that he did little training for the Coetzee fight. I’m not making any excuses for him, because that’s just who he was.

As an aside, it was very disappointing attending that fight. The Coliseum was probably only about half full and I think quite a few tickets were given away in the days just prior to the fight. I know Dokes was very disappointed, but I guess that was just an indication that boxing’s popularity was declining in the area. And of course as we all know it wasn’t just this part of the country.

Cheers for the insight into Dokes. I liked his handspeed in his early fights and the fact that, despite not having huge KO power, he was tough enough to stand close later in his career, using the handspeed to land good shots in exciting fights, fights he ultimately lost. I love his fights with Evander, Ruddock and even Bowe. He always looked so tough later in his career, the braids and the set of his face always draws me into his fights.

I had read that he had drug problems and it is a real shame for him. In the HBO build-up to the Weaver fight that had a segment with him showing off his cooking skills but he also had nice threads on and I guess after a nice meal you go out and party, especially if you a boxer tipped from an early age.

For me one of his most complete early fights was against the British heavyweight Gardener. I also liked his boxing in the Weaver fight. He adapted as the fight went on. He had talent so it is a shame he did not maximise it.

Page would present him with a difficult target but if he could close the distance those fast hands in-close could get him success.

I love the fact that when getting mullered by Bowe he still lands a left hook right before he is taken out.

Although I also freely admit that I love everything about Dokes.

I don't see Michael even hurting Greg, especially if he's focused. I think Greg after a few rounds, would start outboxing Michael like crazy.But, if he's out of shape and unmotivated, Dokes wins. If Michael had developed like he should have, it would've been a great fight.