Joe Louis Or Marciano ??

[lukesfc]

?

[wouter]

?

[lukesfc]

for me the louis

he would have slaughterd marciano in his prime!!

[Ezzard]

I think most would agree with you.

Louis was dropped by some less than great fighters though and I often wonder if he could be upset by a great fighter with a big punch and who was adept at finishing a fight.

Whilst I can imagine many of the great punchers pulling off the upset against Joe it would be an 'upset' and I'd still back Louis in the rematch.

I just think that there are more ways for Joe to win the fight than there are for Rocky.

[lukesfc]

I think most would agree with you.

Louis was dropped by some less than great fighters though and I often wonder if he could be upset by a great fighter with a big punch and who was adept at finishing a fight.

It would be an upset though and whist I can imagine many of the great punchers pulling off the upset against Joe it would be an upset and I'd still back Louis in the rematch.

I just think that there are more ways for Joe to win the fight than there are for Rocky.

EXACTLY!

[dempseyfire]

I think Louis had a very good chin, he was just prone to getting dropped b/c he'd often square right up with a guy when throwing combinations. Vs Braddock, Galento, Walcott, Baer he got right back up from hard flush shots and his legs were always right back under him and within seconds he was back throwing punches. Even Schmeling had to land continual flush right hands on Louis round after round to finally get him out of there.

[Ezzard]

I think Louis had a very good chin, he was just prone to getting dropped b/c he'd often square right up with a guy when throwing combinations. Vs Braddock, Galento, Walcott, Baer he got right back up from hard flush shots and his legs were always right back under him and within seconds he was back throwing punches. Even Schmeling had to land continual flush right hands on Louis round after round to finally get him out of there.

Totally right about the Schmeling defeat. Max really had to pin him to the canvas.

I am not saying that Joe was glas-jawed but any KD is usnteadying physicallya nd psychologically. he did always get up ready to go but, like I said, he wasn't getting dropped by elite punchers and finishers.

[Jaywheel]

I think most would agree with you.

Louis was dropped by some less than great fighters though and I often wonder if he could be upset by a great fighter with a big punch and who was adept at finishing a fight.

It would be an upset though and whist I can imagine many of the great punchers pulling off the upset against Joe it would be an upset and I'd still back Louis in the rematch.

I just think that there are more ways for Joe to win the fight than there are for Rocky.

EXACTLY!

How can you so agree with this when you start your thread with this:

?

What is your take on that fight, what makes Ezzard so exact?

[dempseyfire]

I think Louis had a very good chin, he was just prone to getting dropped b/c he'd often square right up with a guy when throwing combinations. Vs Braddock, Galento, Walcott, Baer he got right back up from hard flush shots and his legs were always right back under him and within seconds he was back throwing punches. Even Schmeling had to land continual flush right hands on Louis round after round to finally get him out of there.

Totally right about the Schmeling defeat. Max really had to pin him to the canvas.

I am not saying that Joe was glas-jawed but any KD is usnteadying physicallya nd psychologically. he did always get up ready to go but, like I said, he wasn't getting dropped by elite punchers and finishers.

Buddy Baer and Galento were certainly elite punchers, and Walcott was considered a very hard hitter by everyone who fought him (he also put down the granite-jawed Marciano) Only Braddock in that list would not be considered a big HW hitter, but his right hand punch was respected as being very sharp and dangerous.

[bollox]

A couple of years ago I used to get onto a white supremacist site to give them some well deserved sh*t (and to post curry recipes). They had a boxing thread going and tried using Marciano's win over an old Joe as proof of white man's supremacy. For some strange reason they banned me

Have to go with Joe, although I could also imagine Marciano landing a bomb to win

[elmersalsa]

I believe that either fighter could win...It is a tough call for me. Both were helluva fighters

[I Feel Fine]

Louis didn't have a weak chin, I would say he had an average chin by Heavyweight championship standards. I don't think Marciano bombs out a prime Louis if it took him some rounds to stop an older Joe. As for how the fight would go, I would probably favor Louis to win a close decision, or maybe a TKO on cuts. Louis said he didn't like pressure fighters, but I think he could manage to out do Marciano, if only by a hair. Louis would certainly win a series. It would have been a match at their best. Marciano was probably the best fighter that Louis had ever fought, but unfortunately by then Louis was finished.

[Big Bad John]

Prime-vs.-prime, I'd pick Louis to win, because he was simply better. He threw better punches. He threw better combinations. He'd outwork the smaller and cruder Marciano, outland him, get the better of him in the majority of exchanges. If Marciano did stop Louis, he'd be solidly behind on the cards.

[lukesfc]

What is your take on that fight, what makes Ezzard so exact?

well the point exactly meaans i agree with ezzard i dident have to say no more...

my opinion on the fight prime V prime

louis would beat rocky no more about it its common sense to any boxing fan louis simply threw better well picked blows and contolled his boxing better then rocko did .... there my take on the fight

[Jaywheel]

louis would beat rocky no more about it its common sense to any boxing fan ....

So why do you ask then?

[lukesfc]

obviously to get overs opinions on the subject

[Jaywheel]

Don't know Overs, but you should ask him directly then

[Ambling Alp]

Prime-vs.-prime, I'd pick Louis to win, because he was simply better. He threw better punches. He threw better combinations. He'd outwork the smaller and cruder Marciano, outland him, get the better of him in the majority of exchanges. If Marciano did stop Louis, he'd be solidly behind on the cards.

That is pretty much how I see it. Louis would land a lot more often. Probably the most overlooked factor is boxing is punching accurracy. Louis was a very accurrate puncher and Marciano wasn't at all.

Louis was only knocked down 10 times. At first that may seem like a lot, but when you consider he had 71 fights and half of his knockdowns were when he was well past his best, that isn't bad. He had a good though not great chin.

It's worth mentioning that a old and far past his best Louis managed to last until the 8th round against Marciano and at times was competitive. A younger Louis is going to do a lot better.

It also bears mentioning that Marciano never proved his chin was good enough to take Louis' punches. The best two punchers (Walcott and Moore) that fought each decked him. Neither were in Louis' class as a hard puncher. He would be getting hit more by Louis than he ever did.

There are many scenarios that could happen;
It certainly is possible that Marciano could catch him just right, have him in trouble and finish him off. However, it's more likely that Louis does this to Marciano. He would be hitting Marciano a lot more often (and more flush). Marciano probably isn't going to take these punches for 15 rounds. Eventually, Louis is probably going to wear him down and finish him off.

If they fought 5 times, the results would probably be something like Louis winning win 4, 3 by KO. Marciano would win one by KO.

[Ezzard]

Punching accuracy, not just landing but landing in the prime locations, can have a devestating effect. We often call effectiveness power but dropping an opponent can be from accuracy, speed as well as just brute force.

Leonard's sensational KO of Dave Green was all about speed and accuracy. You can see the same with Louis and Robinson. They just put them together so well. Then you watch Liston and Foreman and these guys just seem to have something in their fists.

Louis will be landing right on the button again and again.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Louis was only knocked down 10 times. At first that may seem like a lot, but when you consider he had 71 fights and half of his knockdowns were when he was well past his best, that isn't bad. He had a good though not great chin.

Ha... There are a couple of posters on this board who lambaste Ali for getting knocked down three times in his career...

Louis beats Marciano in his prime...However I do think there is a lot of mythology wrapped around both of them and I can think of at least five other heavyweights who would give both hard fights and possibly beat them...Off the top of my head they are Frazier, Foreman, Ali, and Holmes, and possibly, remotely possible Holy, Tyson and Lewis...

[Big Bad John]

• Louis was knocked down 10 times and stopped twice.
• Ali was knocked down 5 times and stopped once, although the Wepner knockdown was clearly a trip.
• Ali was one of the best defensive fighters of all time.
• Louis rarely took a backwards step.

[I Feel Fine]

Ali was knocked down four times, not five, and the fourth knockdown was questionable. Ali was TKO's once, but Louis was knocked out twice, which has more relevance to the question of their chins. Getting knocked down ten times is a lot, even with 72 fights. But, as I said earlier, I personally don't think that Louis had a weak chin, I think he had an average chin for a Heavyweight champion. Though I agree with the above poster that it is odd that people focus so much on Ali's knockdowns, as if his four mean more than Louis' ten.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Ali was knocked down four times, not five, and the fourth knockdown was questionable. Ali was TKO's once, but Louis was knocked out twice, which has more relevance to the question of their chins. Getting knocked down ten times is a lot, even with 72 fights. But, as I said earlier, I personally don't think that Louis had a weak chin, I think he had an average chin for a Heavyweight champion. Though I agree with the above poster that it is odd that people focus so much on Ali's knockdowns, as if his four mean more than Louis' ten.

Four- I forgot the Wepner slip

Or if four means more than the six in Foreman's devastation of Frazier in Kingston...I remember watching it as a kid and being ecstatic because Frazier had beat my idol (Ali)...Now, I see the Ali-Frazier trilogy with a lot more nuance and am more sympathetic to Joe...I would love to see them bury the hatchet for good...God bless Ali...But every time it looks like there is going to be a rapprochement he says something to egg Joe on...

They are both legends and grown ass men...They need to put it behind them...Frazier was to Ali what Wilt was to Bill Russell...

[Robinson]

I think this would be a great fight. Both have the ingredients
to make it bloody and painful for each man.

Personally I think Louis wins, is dropped, but recovers,
both men in TOP shape. Marciano will be bloody faced by the
end, but Louis may be bleeding on the inside.

Louis's hands are raised after 15 exciting, nail biting and close
rounds that demands a rematch.

I just feel that these two would match really well.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

It also bears mentioning that Marciano never proved his chin was good enough to take Louis' punches. The best two punchers (Walcott and Moore) that fought each decked him

The best puncher rocky fought was 6'2 215lb joe louis. despite being 37 he was much bigger than walcott and moore and had more force and heat in his punch. his punch(despite not being anywhere near it used to be) looked like it still packed alot of force knocking out the very durable lee savold with 1 punch prior to the marciano fight, and he knocked durable pat valentino out cold through the ropes 1 year prior it can be seen on youtube. we all know in a aging fighter power is the last thing to go. louis landed some hard punches early in the fight vs rocky and rock took them very well. it would have been different speed and accuracy in his prime, but marciano proved he could take heavy punches from a 215lb man.


moore was 5'11 185
walcott was 6' 195


but louis was 6'2 215lb