Oisin Fagan V Andy Murray in the pipelines

[BigEars]

I think that McDonagh also deserves a good purse after the efforts he's put into the sport,

Now that made me laugh, a payday on a Brian Peters Card LOL 2 pints and a bag of chips maybe lol.

With the price of drink nowdays he's not doing too bad so

Seriously though how much could McDonagh expect to make in a fight like this ?

An Irish title fight , but he's basically the 'opponent' . Although take into account he is champion and I'm not sure how the BUI organise titles fights as regards purses and percentages but I'm guessing Murray would be earning okay money for this and if it's done on percentages of purse then McDonagh will too .

[ApolloCreed]

Murray will stop McDonagh inside six/seven rounds. I'm very sure of that.

Fagan should have no trouble with the Latvian dude either. I can't see any upsets on the card to be honest...

[gkt999]

Honestly I'd say they will both get in an around 4K for this fight, possibly 10K on a 60/40 split.

[BigEars]

Honestly I'd say they will both get in an around 4K for this fight, possibly 10K on a 60/40 split.

Thanks Gareth

[fatton]

Soun

Honestly I'd say they will both get in an around 4K for this fight, possibly 10K on a 60/40 split.

Sounds about the going rate for an undercard title fight. In fairness to the Irish title it really in terms of economic significance doesn't equate to a British title. Don't mean that to sound the wrong way but I suppose the point is that would be cosidered ok money if it was for a Scottish, Welsh or even in some case an English title.

[BigEars]

Soun

Honestly I'd say they will both get in an around 4K for this fight, possibly 10K on a 60/40 split.

Sounds about the going rate for an undercard title fight. In fairness to the Irish title it really in terms of economic significance doesn't equate to a British title. Don't mean that to sound the wrong way but I suppose the point is that would be cosidered ok money if it was for a Scottish, Welsh or even in some case an English title.

The Irish title is really only establishing itself now, in the past it was fought for sporadically but with the new Irish boxing scene that has popped up we're getting regular Irish title fights .

Obviously the British title will be a much better earner, afterall if we don't include the American titles USBA/NABF/NABO/NABA because there is 4 of them and anyone of any nationality can fight for them then the British title along with the Japanese is probably the strongest national title in the World . After that the South African is possibly the strongest but that title is being diluted by WBC International/IBO/WBF fights , I suppose much the way the British is by the WBU and IBF/WBO intercontinental titles .

But the way the Irish title is going at the moment it is establishing itself as one of the better national titles in Europe, it won't be long(I'd give about a month since we've 4 Irish title fights coming up) till it surpasses Spain and is up there with the French and Italian titles and tbh I see no reason with the quality of boxers coming through why it can't surpass even those(at least in the short term of this golden age) .

Irish title fights since the 'Reformation':
Bantamweight: Colin Moffett v Eugene Hagney
Super-Bantamweight: Paul Hyland v Marc Callaghan-TBC
Featherweight: Patrick Hyland v Paul Griffin
Super-Featherweight: Eddie Hyland v Kevin O'Hara
Lightweight: Peter McDonagh v Michael Gomez, Peter McDonagh v Andrew Murray-TBC
Light-Welterweight: Robert Murray v Peter McDonagh, Oisín Fagan v Jeff Thomas, Andrew Murray v James Gorman
Welterweight: Billy Walsh v James Gorman
Light-Middleweight: Ciaran Healy v Lee Murtagh, Ciaran Healy v Jamie Moore-TBC
Middleweight: Matthew Macklin v Michael Monaghan, Jim Rock v Kevin Phelan
Super-Middleweight: Jim Rock v Peter Jackson, Andy lee v Jason McKay
Light-Heavyweight: Jason McKay v Michael Monaghan, Jim Rock v Jonjo Finnegan-TBC
Cruiserweight: none but with I'd say that won't be for long
Heavyweight: none, tbh could be a while before there is one.

That's 18 title fights in 3 years, 11 of which are in the last 12 months .
Considering fights like Andrew Murray v Oisín Fagan and Moore v Duddy/Lee/Macklin II(if Moore moves up to Middleweight) have been discussed about, it's profile seems very likely to improve .


Many fighters who are eligible for the British title also see it as a route there, Colin Moffett's Irish title win over Eugene Hagney got him a shot at Ian Napa and Marc Callaghan has said on a thread on these forums that he is looking at beating Paul Hyland for the Irish title and to hopefully get a British title shot from that . There is the positive that, that view will create more irish title fights but it would in a way diminish their importance .

Anyway, I can't wait for the 5th,12th and 17th of July .

[fatton]

Soun

Honestly I'd say they will both get in an around 4K for this fight, possibly 10K on a 60/40 split.

Sounds about the going rate for an undercard title fight. In fairness to the Irish title it really in terms of economic significance doesn't equate to a British title. Don't mean that to sound the wrong way but I suppose the point is that would be cosidered ok money if it was for a Scottish, Welsh or even in some case an English title.

The Irish title is really only establishing itself now, in the past it was fought for sporadically but with the new Irish boxing scene that has popped up we're getting regular Irish title fights .

Obviously the British title will be a much better earner, afterall if we don't include the American titles USBA/NABF/NABO/NABA because there is 4 of them and anyone of any nationality can fight for them then the British title along with the Japanese is probably the strongest national title in the World . After that the South African is possibly the strongest but that title is being diluted by WBC International/IBO/WBF fights , I suppose much the way the British is by the WBU and IBF/WBO intercontinental titles .

But the way the Irish title is going at the moment it is establishing itself as one of the better national titles in Europe, it won't be long(I'd give about a month since we've 4 Irish title fights coming up) till it surpasses Spain and is up there with the French and Italian titles and tbh I see no reason with the quality of boxers coming through why it can't surpass even those(at least in the short term of this golden age) .

Irish title fights since the 'Reformation':
Bantamweight: Colin Moffett v Eugene Hagney
Super-Bantamweight: Paul Hyland v Marc Callaghan-TBC
Featherweight: Patrick Hyland v Paul Griffin
Super-Featherweight: Eddie Hyland v Kevin O'Hara
Lightweight: Peter McDonagh v Michael Gomez, Peter McDonagh v Andrew Murray-TBC
Light-Welterweight: Robert Murray v Peter McDonagh, Oisín Fagan v Jeff Thomas, Andrew Murray v James Gorman
Welterweight: Billy Walsh v James Gorman
Light-Middleweight: Ciaran Healy v Lee Murtagh, Ciaran Healy v Jamie Moore-TBC
Middleweight: Matthew Macklin v Michael Monaghan, Jim Rock v Kevin Phelan
Super-Middleweight: Jim Rock v Peter Jackson, Andy lee v Jason McKay
Light-Heavyweight: Jason McKay v Michael Monaghan, Jim Rock v Jonjo Finnegan-TBC
Cruiserweight: none but with I'd say that won't be for long
Heavyweight: none, tbh could be a while before there is one.

That's 18 title fights in 3 years, 11 of which are in the last 12 months .
Considering fights like Andrew Murray v Oisín Fagan and Moore v Duddy/Lee/Macklin II(if Moore moves up to Middleweight) have been discussed about, it's profile seems very likely to improve .


Many fighters who are eligible for the British title also see it as a route there, Colin Moffett's Irish title win over Eugene Hagney got him a shot at Ian Napa and Marc Callaghan has said on a thread on these forums that he is looking at beating Paul Hyland for the Irish title and to hopefully get a British title shot from that . There is the positive that, that view will create more irish title fights but it would in a way diminish their importance .

Anyway, I can't wait for the 5th,12th and 17th of July .

Thanks for the info, nice to see the Irish title becoming popular but some of those matches are strictly area level. Anyway my original point was the purse mentioned for the Murray and McDonagh fight seems about the going rate considering it's level although having seen Murray a few times I think he's capable of doing something on the European scene.

[ApolloCreed]

I didn't realise that te Japanese scene was so strong?

I think people will sit up and take notie of Murray after this one, he hasn't had an opportunity to show what he can do yet. Remmber, this man was one of the classiest amateurs we've produced in quite a while and, from what I hear, his power has improved significantly. Big Ears?? Thoughts?

On Fagan, at 34 he looks to have gone as far as he can, should he win back that Irish LWW strap, could he be Euro level?

Certainly a tough bastard!!

Who is going to be our next legit world champ, or will we ever have one again? Someone like McCloskey could surprise us, bu I think Lee is the man.

My fave Irish fighter though is Duddy.

[Marc .]

I think that McDonagh also deserves a good purse after the efforts he's put into the sport,

Now that made me laugh, a payday on a Brian Peters Card LOL 2 pints and a bag of chips maybe lol.

I was just refering to what 03mcgs0 said about Fagan & Murray getting a good purse they deserve, so I was also saying so does McDonagh aswell so whats laughable about that?

[Marc .]

I think that McDonagh also deserves a good purse after the efforts he's put into the sport,

Now that made me laugh, a payday on a Brian Peters Card LOL 2 pints and a bag of chips maybe lol.

With the price of drink nowdays he's not doing too bad so

Seriously though how much could McDonagh expect to make in a fight like this ?

An Irish title fight , but he's basically the 'opponent' . Although take into account he is champion and I'm not sure how the BUI organise titles fights as regards purses and percentages but I'm guessing Murray would be earning okay money for this and if it's done on percentages of purse then McDonagh will too .

I wasn't saying making a good purse in this fight, I was saying he deserves to also go on to make a good purse just like 03mcgs0 said Fagan & Murray rightly do

[BigEars]

I didn't realise that te Japanese scene was so strong?

I think people will sit up and take notie of Murray after this one, he hasn't had an opportunity to show what he can do yet. Remmber, this man was one of the classiest amateurs we've produced in quite a while and, from what I hear, his power has improved significantly. Big Ears?? Thoughts?

On Fagan, at 34 he looks to have gone as far as he can, should he win back that Irish LWW strap, could he be Euro level?

Certainly a tough bastard!!

Who is going to be our next legit world champ, or will we ever have one again? Someone like McCloskey could surprise us, bu I think Lee is the man.

My fave Irish fighter though is Duddy.

At the higher weights the Japanese scene is non existent, but at the lower ones Japanese title fights are usually a higher standard than European title fights and countless Japanese fighters have gone from the Japanese title to a World title in one step .
They have bucket loads of quality fighter from minimumweight to Bantamweight and they still have plenty of fighter from Super-Bantamweight to Light-Middle but the quality just isn't the same .

Yusuke Kobori recently went from Japanese Super-Featherweight champion to WBA 'regular' Lightweight champion.

Takahiro Aoh recently went from Japanese Featherweight champion to a World title eliminator, granted he was matched with another Japanese fighter OPBF champion Hiroyuki Enoki , the bout was a draw.

Nobuo Nashiro went from Japanese Super-Flyweight champion to WBA Super-Flyweight champion not too long ago, defeating Martin Castillo for the belt . He's now going to be fighting for the vacant WBA 'regular' Super-Flyweight title as Mijares has unified . He'll be taking on fellow Japanese fighter and current Japanese and OPBF Super-Flyweight champion Kohei Kono .

Yutaki Niida(WBA Minimumweight champ) went from Japanese Minimumweight champion to WBA Minimumweight champion the first time he won the belt, the second time he just won a rematch to the guy he lost to .

Katsunari Takayama lost a Japanese Light-Flyweight title fight and 2 years later won the WBC minimweight title, after losing that title he won the Japanese minimumweight title and from there he won the WBA interim minimumweight title .

Takefumi Sakata went from Japanese Flyweight champion to challenger for the WBA Flyweight champion Lorenzo Parra , he lost two mixed decisions to Parra and then a SD to Roberto Vasquez before getting revenge on both, stopping Parra and decisioning Vasquez . He is the current WBA Flyweight champion .

Daisuke Naito was the Japanese Flyweight champion not long before he finally beat Pongsaklek Wonjongkam for the WBC Flyweight title .

The Japanese title is strong enough at the lower weights that you will often see fighter who lost a Japanese title in their last fight, fight for a World title in their next and it's not that uncommon for them to win . Considering they only go after the WBA and WBC titles it probably keeps the strenght of their national champions stronger . The OPBF(their equivalent to the European title) is really the only other belt competed for over there and that can be held with the Japanese title anyway . If I was to go through guys who went from OPBF champion to World champion recently I'd be here all day .

Anyway back to Ireland and Murray . Murray has a real chance to impress here and the right opponent to do it . He's getting plenty of coverage on RTÉ at the moment and this fight will probably be shown aswell(or at least highlights) . A good performance here and we could see a Brian peters promotion in Cavan with Murray heading before too long . As for his power we'll just have to wait and see, he does appear to be sitting down on his punches a little more and the move down to Lightweight could help but I'm not convinced about his power .

Irregardless of power I think he'll stop McDonagh though . McDonagh may be very tough, but he's not going to be landing much on Murray and Murray will be hitting him at will so whether Murray is able to hurt him or not we'll probably see a mercy stoppage . If Murray is able to stop him it would be impressive though, as if McDonagh has anything it's a good chin and a good ability to take body shots .

Fagan has indeed gone pretty much as far as he can, he won't make it at European level . Fagan is a very tough fighter and with his style and aggresion he is capable of beating very good slick technical fighters(such as how he gave Spadafora and Kimbrough huge problems) but at the same time he's capable of losing to the better journeymen . Chill John ran he very close a while ago in Dublin and really that's just not acceptable of a fighter who's at European level .

When him and Murray fight(it's nearly only a matter of time at this stage) it will be for the Lightweight title not the Light-Welter so he won't be winning back that title. Unless both are up for grabs, infact that mightn't be a bad way to help promote the fight .

McCloskey is the best hope for a World title anytime in the next 2/3 years, after that it'll be Lee but for now McCloskey seems to be the best we have and it'll be very interesting to see him take on Nigel Wright in a months time . Olusegun struggled badly with Wright and manh fancy/fancied Olusegun to capable of fighting at the very top .

[Asterix]

At the higher weights the Japanese scene is non existent, but at the lower ones Japanese title fights are usually a higher standard than European title fights and countless Japanese fighters have gone from the Japanese title to a World title in one step .
They have bucket loads of quality fighter from minimumweight to Bantamweight and they still have plenty of fighter from Super-Bantamweight to Light-Middle but the quality just isn't the same .

Breaking the mould, they do have a good Middleweight prospect in Koji Sato. I'm not sure quite how good as I've seen very little of him. He's fighting Keiji Eguchi in September to see who the best Japanese Middleweight is.

[ApolloCreed]

Excellent post Big Ears!

[gkt999]

you might seea Heavyweight Irish Title sooner than we think.

Theres a couple of names that have been thrown about before for NI titles and possible Irish titles but I think if the Irish title establishes itself well, as it seems to be doing, we could have a HW title bout inside the next 12-18 mnths. Rogan v Belshaw?

[slapbangwhallop]

you might seea Heavyweight Irish Title sooner than we think.

Theres a couple of names that have been thrown about before for NI titles and possible Irish titles but I think if the Irish title establishes itself well, as it seems to be doing, we could have a HW title bout inside the next 12-18 mnths. Rogan v Belshaw?

dunno if we have been through this before Gareth but would Belshaw fight for an Irish title - I know Roggie would fight for a British title

Rogan/McBride/Kenna/Belshaw - pair any of those and it would be a decent scrap (scrap being the operative word I suppose)

[gkt999]

Nah we aint touched this on before, we did the Rogie one though lol

Belshaw would fight for an Irish Title, all his AMA fights were for Irish Seniors etc (ok after ulster Qualifiers).

Kenna and Belshaw was discussed before but I can't remember what happened to stop it, I think Maloney may have taken Scott back to England for fights, even possibly the one he lost to Peret. (sorry I cant remember the exact details)

Belshaw and Rogan has been discussed in the press and on forums for quite a while but it was always for the NI title, I think now the fight might come off for the Irish title depending on the upcomming fights for both boxers. If Rogan smashes A-Farce in a few rounds it may not come off, due to Rogan getting more (and better money)bouts on the mainland.

Kenna, Belshaw, and McBride would all make a decent scrap if Rogan does move on up, otherwise include Rogan in that group.

[BigEars]

Nah we aint touched this on before, we did the Rogie one though lol

Belshaw would fight for an Irish Title, all his AMA fights were for Irish Seniors etc (ok after ulster Qualifiers).

Kenna and Belshaw was discussed before but I can't remember what happened to stop it, I think Maloney may have taken Scott back to England for fights, even possibly the one he lost to Peret. (sorry I cant remember the exact details)

Belshaw and Rogan has been discussed in the press and on forums for quite a while but it was always for the NI title, I think now the fight might come off for the Irish title depending on the upcomming fights for both boxers. If Rogan smashes A-Farce in a few rounds it may not come off, due to Rogan getting more (and better money)bouts on the mainland.

Kenna, Belshaw, and McBride would all make a decent scrap if Rogan does move on up, otherwise include Rogan in that group.

Declin Timlin is there aswell and maybe James Clancy too(not sure if he is retired or not) . I just can't see any two of these guys being matched in the near future . Maybe if Belshaw starts to progress a bit and Rogan loses easily to Harrison and looks like he's in decline it could happen but other than that I don't fancy it happening .

[slapbangwhallop]

Nah we aint touched this on before, we did the Rogie one though lol

Belshaw would fight for an Irish Title, all his AMA fights were for Irish Seniors etc (ok after ulster Qualifiers).

Kenna and Belshaw was discussed before but I can't remember what happened to stop it, I think Maloney may have taken Scott back to England for fights, even possibly the one he lost to Peret. (sorry I cant remember the exact details)

Belshaw and Rogan has been discussed in the press and on forums for quite a while but it was always for the NI title, I think now the fight might come off for the Irish title depending on the upcomming fights for both boxers. If Rogan smashes A-Farce in a few rounds it may not come off, due to Rogan getting more (and better money)bouts on the mainland.

Kenna, Belshaw, and McBride would all make a decent scrap if Rogan does move on up, otherwise include Rogan in that group.

Declin Timlin is there aswell and maybe James Clancy too(not sure if he is retired or not) . I just can't see any two of these guys being matched in the near future . Maybe if Belshaw starts to progress a bit and Rogan loses easily to Harrison and looks like he's in decline it could happen but other than that I don't fancy it happening .

seriously? I always found Timlin and the Clancy brothers pretty embarassing - but good luck to them for gettin inside and not just standin at a door in Southie

[Coco]

For a country so passionate about boxing, it is a real shame that there are not more couts in Ireland.
One way of doing this is to make much more use of these titles. There are a few boys worthy of fighting for the heavy title, in what would be real good scraps, generating a lot of interest.
It is on such shows that you can fill the undercard up with local talent and start developing them

[BigEars]

Nah we aint touched this on before, we did the Rogie one though lol

Belshaw would fight for an Irish Title, all his AMA fights were for Irish Seniors etc (ok after ulster Qualifiers).

Kenna and Belshaw was discussed before but I can't remember what happened to stop it, I think Maloney may have taken Scott back to England for fights, even possibly the one he lost to Peret. (sorry I cant remember the exact details)

Belshaw and Rogan has been discussed in the press and on forums for quite a while but it was always for the NI title, I think now the fight might come off for the Irish title depending on the upcomming fights for both boxers. If Rogan smashes A-Farce in a few rounds it may not come off, due to Rogan getting more (and better money)bouts on the mainland.

Kenna, Belshaw, and McBride would all make a decent scrap if Rogan does move on up, otherwise include Rogan in that group.

Declin Timlin is there aswell and maybe James Clancy too(not sure if he is retired or not) . I just can't see any two of these guys being matched in the near future . Maybe if Belshaw starts to progress a bit and Rogan loses easily to Harrison and looks like he's in decline it could happen but other than that I don't fancy it happening .

seriously? I always found Timlin and the Clancy brothers pretty embarassing - but good luck to them for gettin inside and not just standin at a door in Southie

Well John Timlin is bloody useless, and Declan while not great is about 12 steps ahead of his brother . Neither of the Clancy's is really up to much but I think we actually need some poor heavies with built up records for an Irish title fight to happen .

Belshaw is the most likely candidate for an Irish title fight, along with Rogan . But I'm not sure Maloney would really want Belshaw in with Rogan(at least not for a good while yet) so that leaves Kenna, McBride and the Timlin's/Clancy's .

McBride I doubt wants to go back to that level(or money) and I suppose Kenna might go for it, but Declan Timlin or Mark Clancy both have better looking records, are easier opponents and are more likely to take the fight imo .

Being honest unless it was Rogan v McBride I wouldn't have too much hope for a decent Irish title fight . Belshaw is too green, Kenna is past it and the others just aren't up to much .

Anyone know which British fighters are eligible for the Irish title ?, might make things a bit more interesting .

[gkt999]

British fighters that could fight for the Irish Title, umm could be interestig, I can't think of any now but will have a look through records / books later.


I forgot all about Timlin actually, last time I saw him fight live, I thought he had come on a fair bit.

As for Belshaw, if Maloney keeps shouting his HW champion of the world guff every week about Belshaw, he's going to have to make a start sooner rather than later and an Irish title bout migh be a good place to start. Maloney had said before that he was happy for Belshaw to fight Rogan (granted that was before Prizefighter) but Maloney had seen Rogie fight.

Belshaw is out again on the 18th July against Daniel Peret (the man that beat him) and needs to win by a quick KO to regain his status of KO artist.

Rogan is out against A- Farce on the 19th July so it could be an interesting weekend.

Funnier fights have been talked about on Boxrec and seemingly panned out for fihters/promoters/fans.

[NaFianna]

Looks like Fagan gets that rematch he's been looking for, for a long time...
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer
Vs Kimbrough. The first fight was a WAR!!! Like a Gatti-Ward fight- no shitt! Fagan got a Split Decision against him that night, but I was there and saw Fagan batter Kimbrough from pillar to post from rounds 7-12 and a couple at the start. Kimbrough will be in for a rough night! Apparently its an ESPN 2 headliner, Aug 29th. So, if he fights in Dublin next week, Kimbrough in late Aug, then I guess Murray/McDonagh will be in Oct some time? That's a busy schedule- 2 title fights- one Irish, one NABA in 2 months- might be a record of some sort?

[samIam]

GO FAYGO!

[samIam]

With Fagan's busy schedule, I don't think it will be long until we see whether or not he can do anything on Euro, US, or World level. Like he has a fight for the most recognised US title- the NABA in Aug, then and Irish title fight against Murray who they say is Euro level,at least. So if he beats these 2 guys in a short space of time (or loses controversially, again), I guess we can start refering to him as a 'contender' again. If he loses to them both, I guess he'll turn into 'journeyman' mode. Should be an interesting couple of months ahead for the guy.

[BigEars]

With Fagan's busy schedule, I don't think it will be long until we see whether or not he can do anything on Euro, US, or World level. Like he has a fight for the most recognised US title- the NABA in Aug, then and Irish title fight against Murray who they say is Euro level,at least. So if he beats these 2 guys in a short space of time (or loses controversially, again), I guess we can start refering to him as a 'contender' again. If he loses to them both, I guess he'll turn into 'journeyman' mode. Should be an interesting couple of months ahead for the guy.

Fagan's a good fighter and a tough test for anyone but he is nowhere near World Class . World Class fighters don't struggle against the likes of Chill John . John is actually pretty decent as journeyman with his kind of record go but the remark still stands that fighters of European standard even would want to be beating a guy like John very clearly .

I've heard that the Kimbrough rematch isn't going to come off, which is unfortunate but at least fagan still has the bout with Murray lined up .
Murray is potentially European Class(as in he won't be good enough for World level at any time) but not proven European class .

Still with all that said, If Fagan was to get a fight with Kimbrough and beat him and was then to beat Murray I wouldn't grudge him as a voluntary defence for one of the ABC belt holders .

Fagan has all the heart, guts and drive in the World, it's the technical qualities that let him down . He's great to watch too, but lets not get run away with ourselves here . We're hoping that Duddy and McCloskey can get World title shots and win them, to be considering fighters of lesser talent to them is over expectant .

Still though I can't wait for a Murray v Fagan fight to happen . Outside of the Light-Middle/Middleweights of Duddy/Macklin/Lee/Moore(Jamie) or Bernard Dunne and Paulie Hyland being matched this is the biggest fight we have on our hands in Ireland .

Unlike the rest of them it looks almost certain to happen at some point too .