Ray Leoanard V Jake LaMotta At 154 Pounds

[Robert in NYC]

LaMotta was pressed during the 1987 interview about his statement that he could not have beaten Leonard. The question put to LaMotta was how could he have beaten Robinson yet not think that he could beat Leonard. LaMotta responded by saying that Robinson was the better fighter but Leonard's running was something that LaMotta never had to deal with in his day. No doubt that Lamotta was giving Leonard a backhanded compliment.

[Big Bad John]

LaMotta was pressed during the 1987 interview about his statement that he could not have beaten Leonard. The question put to LaMotta was how could he have beaten Robinson yet not think that he could beat Leonard. LaMotta responded by saying that Robinson was the better fighter but Leonard's running was something that LaMotta never had to deal with in his day. No doubt that Lamotta was giving Leonard a backhanded compliment.

That makes more sense. Different styles go in and out of popularity. Fighters of that era grew up emulating Joe Louis, who hardly took a backwards step.

[zslayton]

I've never thought of DLH as a plodder. You think he fits that description? I saw the "split decision" aspect of that fight....though I preferred the outcome based on the performance. I was one of those who would have loved it if DLH would have won the fight. But in my estimation he fell a bit short.

I love DLH... I (wanted) him to win the fight...But the criticism of PBF is that he avoids contact... I'm not an expert but isn't not getting hit half the part of boxing with the other half hitting the other guy...

right you are. everyone loves willie pep and hit defense is what sets him apart from other greats.

[elmersalsa]

LaMotta wins this fight...Leonard beyond welteweight, was HORRIBLE. He was not that good at 154 and beyond. :( :( :(

[Big Bad John]

LaMotta wins this fight...Leonard beyond welteweight, was HORRIBLE. He was not that good at 154 and beyond. :( :( :(

That's just silly, and I hope you're being sarcastic. Even the Hagler of 1987 doesn't lose to a "horrible" fighter, and you don't know much about boxing if you think so.

[ringsider]

LaMotta wins this fight...Leonard beyond welteweight, was HORRIBLE. He was not that good at 154 and beyond. :( :( :(

So then if Lamotta beats Leonard, ......and Leonard beat Hagler..........and Hagler is the #1,#2, or #3 rated MW of all time on most of the Hagler nut hugger's list.........


Then Lamotta is at least a top 3 MW of all time.........

Evidently Leonard was pretty good above 154, he beat the undisputed MW champion of the world, pretty obviously.......or maybe as I have said a 100 million times.....Hagler wasn't that good!!

You guys are dopes.

[Ambling Alp]

Jus thought I would mention a few things that somehow are being overlooked:

Leonard at 154 and above was 8-0-1 until he was way over the hill.
His opponents:
Marcotte TKO 8
Geraldo W10 (Leonard weighed 153, Geraldo 160. A year later, Geraldo gave Hagler a tough fight in losing10 round decision.) Geraldo was a Top 10 Middleweight when Leonard beat him.

Chiaverini Stopped after 4 rounds. He was a Top 10 Middleweight as well.
Kalue TKO 9 (Jr Middleweight Champion)
Howard TKO9 (Leonard hadn't fought in more than 2 years.)
Hagler W12
Lalonde TKO 9 (Leonard's first fight in 19 months.)
D 12 Thomas Hearns
Duran W12 (Obviously Duran was well past his best. However, still pretty impressive that Leonard almost shut him out in Duran's first fight after beating Barkley.)

Leonard went 8-0-1 with 5 Ko's in 9 fights against pretty good competition. Leonard's record above 147 is excellent. Had he not had the eye injury, he probably would have had several fights at 154 and would have been in his prime, not rusty, and used to the weight.

There is no official fight that LaMotta had at 154 in his career. He would have to get down to 154 and probably wouldn't be as effective as he was at 160.

As for LaMotta vs Robinson:
LaMotta's only win against Robinson was when he weighed 160 1/2 and Robinson weighed 144 1/2.
He lost to Robinson when he had weight advantages of 157 1/2 to 145 and 160 1/2 to 145.

If LaMotta had to get down to 154 and Leonard was also at 154, Leonard would win this fight easily.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

[quote="Ambling Alp"]Jus thought I would mention a few things that somehow are being overlooked:

Leonard at 154 and above was 8-0-1 until he was way over the hill.
His opponents:
Marcotte TKO 8
Geraldo W10 (Leonard weighed 153, Geraldo 160. A year later, Geraldo gave Hagler a tough fight in losing10 round decision.) Geraldo was a Top 10 Middleweight when Leonard beat him.

Chiaverini Stopped after 4 rounds. He was a Top 10 Middleweight as well.
Kalue TKO 9 (Jr Middleweight Champion)
Howard TKO9 (Leonard hadn't fought in more than 2 years.)
Hagler W12
Lalonde TKO 9 (Leonard's first fight in 19 months.)
D 12 Thomas Hearns
Duran W12 (Obviously Duran was well past his best. However, still pretty impressive that Leonard almost shut him out in Duran's first fight after beating Barkley.)

Leonard went 8-0-1 with 5 Ko's in 9 fights against pretty good competition. Leonard's record above 147 is excellent. Had he not had the eye injury, he probably would have had several fights at 154 and would have been in his prime, not rusty, and used to the weight.

There is no official fight that LaMotta had at 154 in his career. He would have to get down to 154 and probably wouldn't be as effective as he was at 160.

As for LaMotta vs Robinson:
LaMotta's only win against Robinson was when he weighed 160 1/2 and Robinson weighed 144 1/2.
He lost to Robinson when he had weight advantages of 157 1/2 to 145 and 160 1/2 to 145.

If LaMotta had to get down to 154 and Leonard was also at 154, Leonard would win this fight easily.[/quote]


Word, Leonard was 5'10 and looked quite comfortable at 154 pounds...

[elmersalsa]

Leonard past 147 pounds was not as good as some people claim.

He almost got knocked out by Marcos Geraldo.
He looked unimpressive against a journey man Kevin Howard.
He beat, Ayub Kalule, but Davey Moore did it better.
Terry Norris beat him...well, let's give him that one...He was past his prime
Some people said that the Marvin Hagler won the fight.
Donny Lalonde, a MEDIOCRE FIGHTER, had to shed 7 pounds to fight him...Leonard got decked.
The great Thomas Hearns was imensily robbed in the rematch...8 years too late. If it were 1984, Hearns would have blown him away, especially at 154 pounds.
The third fight with the great Roberto Duran was a JOKE.

It tells me that after 1982, Sugar Ray was not even in his own self. 1979 thru 1982, that was Sugar Ray Leonard at his very best...At welterweight, at welterweight.