Mike Tyson In His Prime

[TheOneIsHere2008]

How do you gentlemen think Mike Tyson would do against the following boxers in his mythical prime?

Muhammad Ali

Larry Holmes

George Foreman

Joe Frazier

Earnie Shavers

Sonny Liston

Floyd Patterson

Jerry Quarry

Oscar Bonavena

Rocky Marciano

Jersey Joe Walcott

Joe Louis

Lenox Lewis

Riddick Bowe

Jack Dempsey

I included some champions, some sluggers, and some just generally mean fighters like Bonavena...


on edit- I forgot Evander Holyfield ...Don't forget Evander was supposed to be the shot 34-35 year old fighter who had just lost to Riddick Bowe and Michael Moorer...

[p4p1]

Muhammad Ali: no ali would give to much movement and jab all day

Larry Holmes: jab all day tyson punchers chance IMO

George Foreman: its a BIG mistake coming into george cant see him winning this one

Joe Frazier: i think he beats frazier in a grueling fight

Earnie Shavers: i think he beats sheaver by a ko just to quick

Sonny Liston: battle of the bully's whoever calls it quits first loses both have enough power to knock each other out tyson has a edge in speed but liston has his jab

Floyd Patterson: quick and devasting ko simiular to liston

Jerry Quarry: tyson by ko around 3 or 4 he would get to quarry fairly quickly and take him out

Oscar Bonavena: i havnt watched enough of bonavena

Rocky Marciano: if tyson can get rid of marciano inside of six he could win after 6 rounds it becomes increasingly hard with marciano's toughness, power and will but marciano might not have enough after the early beating he is sure to get


Joe Louis: tyson has a very good punchers chance louis was put down by lesser fighters than tyson but he most probably would beat tyson with his combination punching anf power

Lenox Lewis: probably same way as the buster douglas fight but a young tyson as could land a very dangerouse right hand or left hand

Riddick Bowe: have not seen enough of bowe

Jack Dempsey: dempsey hits hard and wouldnt be scared of tyson

[SteveO]

A prime Tyson could probably have beaten them all - except perhaps Ali, Foreman and Lewis.

[wouter]

KO 3 Muhammad Ali, Tyson catches a running Ali with his hook-uppercut combo.
KO 2 Larry Holmes, against a prime Holmes Tysion doesn't pull his punches.
KO 2 George Foreman, Foreman too slow for Tyson.
KO 1 Joe Frazier, Tyson twice as good as Foreman.
KO 1 Earnie Shavers, Even quicker than Tyson v. Frazier.
KO2 Sonny Liston, Liston quits after 2 rounds with Iron Mike.
KO 1 Floyd Patterson, see Tyson v, Spinks.
KO 1 Jerry Quarry, see Tyson v. McNeely.
KO 2 Oscar Bonavena, no Oscar for Oscar.
KO 2 Rocky Marciano, on cuts.
KO 1 Jersey Joe Walcott, Walcott couldn't even beat Marciano.
KO 2 Joe Louis, TKO after Louis has been down three times.
KO 2 Lennox Lewis, Lewis luicky to have fought an ancient Tyson.
KO 2 Riddick Bowe, Tyson ain't no Herbie.
KO 1 Jack Dempsey, Dempsey way too small and primitive.
KO 2 Evander Holyfield, Holyfield really a cruiserweight.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

KO 3 Muhammad Ali, Tyson catches a running Ali with his hook-uppercut combo.
KO 2 Larry Holmes, against a prime Holmes Tysion doesn't pull his punches.
KO 2 George Foreman, Foreman too slow for Tyson.
KO 1 Joe Frazier, Tyson twice as good as Foreman.
KO 1 Earnie Shavers, Even quicker than Tyson v. Frazier.
KO2 Sonny Liston, Liston quits after 2 rounds with Iron Mike.
KO 1 Floyd Patterson, see Tyson v, Spinks.
KO 1 Jerry Quarry, see Tyson v. McNeely.
KO 2 Oscar Bonavena, no Oscar for Oscar.
KO 2 Rocky Marciano, on cuts.
KO 1 Jersey Joe Walcott, Walcott couldn't even beat Marciano.
KO 2 Joe Louis, TKO after Louis has been down three times.
KO 2 Lennox Lewis, Lewis luicky to have fought an ancient Tyson.
KO 2 Riddick Bowe, Tyson ain't no Herbie.
KO 1 Jack Dempsey, Dempsey way too small and primitive.
KO 2 Evander Holyfield, Holyfield really a cruiserweight.

How is the man who in his prime couldn't knock out Mitch Green knock out all these cats in less than three rounds?

Even Bonecrusher Smith proved you could hang with Tyson for twelve rounds if that was your only intention...

And we won't even get into Douglas and Holy...If a man ain't at or near his prime at 24 and 30 he needs to see a physician...

[Ezzard]

KO 3 Muhammad Ali, Tyson catches a running Ali with his hook-uppercut combo.
KO 2 Larry Holmes, against a prime Holmes Tysion doesn't pull his punches.
KO 2 George Foreman, Foreman too slow for Tyson.
KO 1 Joe Frazier, Tyson twice as good as Foreman.
KO 1 Earnie Shavers, Even quicker than Tyson v. Frazier.
KO2 Sonny Liston, Liston quits after 2 rounds with Iron Mike.
KO 1 Floyd Patterson, see Tyson v, Spinks.
KO 1 Jerry Quarry, see Tyson v. McNeely.
KO 2 Oscar Bonavena, no Oscar for Oscar.
KO 2 Rocky Marciano, on cuts.
KO 1 Jersey Joe Walcott, Walcott couldn't even beat Marciano.
KO 2 Joe Louis, TKO after Louis has been down three times.
KO 2 Lennox Lewis, Lewis luicky to have fought an ancient Tyson.
KO 2 Riddick Bowe, Tyson ain't no Herbie.
KO 1 Jack Dempsey, Dempsey way too small and primitive.
KO 2 Evander Holyfield, Holyfield really a cruiserweight.

How is the man who in his prime couldn't knock out Mitch Green knock out all these cats in less than three rounds?

Even Bonecrusher Smith proved you could hang with Tyson for twelve rounds if that was your only intention...

And we won't even get into Douglas and Holy...If a man ain't at or near his prime at 24 and 30 he needs to see a physician...

I think it's meant as a joke response.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

KO 3 Muhammad Ali, Tyson catches a running Ali with his hook-uppercut combo.
KO 2 Larry Holmes, against a prime Holmes Tysion doesn't pull his punches.
KO 2 George Foreman, Foreman too slow for Tyson.
KO 1 Joe Frazier, Tyson twice as good as Foreman.
KO 1 Earnie Shavers, Even quicker than Tyson v. Frazier.
KO2 Sonny Liston, Liston quits after 2 rounds with Iron Mike.
KO 1 Floyd Patterson, see Tyson v, Spinks.
KO 1 Jerry Quarry, see Tyson v. McNeely.
KO 2 Oscar Bonavena, no Oscar for Oscar.
KO 2 Rocky Marciano, on cuts.
KO 1 Jersey Joe Walcott, Walcott couldn't even beat Marciano.
KO 2 Joe Louis, TKO after Louis has been down three times.
KO 2 Lennox Lewis, Lewis luicky to have fought an ancient Tyson.
KO 2 Riddick Bowe, Tyson ain't no Herbie.
KO 1 Jack Dempsey, Dempsey way too small and primitive.
KO 2 Evander Holyfield, Holyfield really a cruiserweight.

How is the man who in his prime couldn't knock out Mitch Green knock out all these cats in less than three rounds?

Even Bonecrusher Smith proved you could hang with Tyson for twelve rounds if that was your only intention...

And we won't even get into Douglas and Holy...If a man ain't at or near his prime at 24 and 30 he needs to see a physician...

I think it's meant as a joke response.

That's what I thought...

It's not a bad question...

I am waiting for somebody to say Tyson beats em all...

[Broncano]

I think it was the legendary Freaky Deaky a.k.a. Overhand_right who long ago in a conversation with Jeff "Candy Slim" Merritt, asked:

"How about Tyson versus a T-Rex/Gorilla hybrid?"

[dempseyfire]

How do you gentlemen think Mike Tyson would do against the following boxers in his mythical prime?

Muhammad Ali

Larry Holmes

George Foreman

Joe Frazier

Earnie Shavers

Sonny Liston

Floyd Patterson

Jerry Quarry

Oscar Bonavena

Rocky Marciano

Jersey Joe Walcott

Joe Louis

Lenox Lewis

Riddick Bowe

Jack Dempsey

I included some champions, some sluggers, and some just generally mean fighters like Bonavena...


on edit- I forgot Evander Holyfield ...Don't forget Evander was supposed to be the shot 34-35 year old fighter who had just lost to Riddick Bowe and Michael Moorer...

I'm on the fence with Lennox, but I think he loses to all of them except Bowe, Patterson, Bonavena, Quarry (a GREAT fight while it lasts), and Shavers.

[observer1]

Muhammad Ali : Ali would win by TKO in the Latter Rounds easily

Larry Holmes : I dont know why, but i see Tyson Winning. A 'Pass-it' Holmes got demolished in just 4 rounds by a Prime Tyson, but 4 years later went the distance with a Prime Holyfield.... That shows 1 thing, how devastating Prime Tyson was. Holmes was good, but no Ali. i see Tyson finding no problem getting passed Holmes' jab after a few rounds.

George Foreman: i dont see this being another 'Foreman-Frazier'. Tyson is much quicker than Frazier, and much more harder to hit. IMO, they will both try and go for the KO quickly, Tyson wins KO 4/5/6

Joe Frazier : Tyson TKO in the latter Rounds. Engaging, and by no means will Frazier be ready to fall, but i feel Frazier was easy to hit.

Earnie Shavers : Tyson KO 3/4

Sonny Liston : Tyson KO 8/9

Floyd Patterson : Tyson TKO 2/4. Fought under 200lbs. Easy pickings

Jerry Quarry : Tyson KO 3/4/5

Oscar Bonavena : Tyson TKO 8. Oscar could seemingly avoid smaller 'Big' Punchers (I think). Would make Tyson work hard.

Rocky Marciano : Tyson TKO 8. Rocky just got hit too much. Seeing as he fought around less than 200lbs. No way would the Referee allow Rocky to continue after a few big hits from Tyson. i just dont see Rocky surviving from a Solid heavier Puncher.

Jersey Joe Walcott : Never rated Walcott, Tyson beats him KO

Joe Louis : Intresting match up. Louis not as good as Ali, but does have that 'Class'. Although i think Holmes was better than Louis, i feel Louis had that "Edge" which made Tyson feel so uncomfortable with. Though Tyson would be favorite, i see Louis winning.

Lenox Lewis: Prime for Prime, Tyson would win KO

Riddick Bowe: Tyson KO. Bowe struggled with Golota, i dont think Tyson would be so forgiving.

Jack Dempsey: fought at less than 200lbs. Would be harder to hit than Rocky, but once hit....

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Muhammad Ali : Ali would win by TKO in the Latter Rounds easily

Larry Holmes : I dont know why, but i see Tyson Winning. A 'Pass-it' Holmes got demolished in just 4 rounds by a Prime Tyson, but 4 years later went the distance with a Prime Holyfield.... That shows 1 thing, how devastating Prime Tyson was. Holmes was good, but no Ali. i see Tyson finding no problem getting passed Holmes' jab after a few rounds.

George Foreman: i dont see this being another 'Foreman-Frazier'. Tyson is much quicker than Frazier, and much more harder to hit. IMO, they will both try and go for the KO quickly, Tyson wins KO 4/5/6

Joe Frazier : Tyson TKO in the latter Rounds. Engaging, and by no means will Frazier be ready to fall, but i feel Frazier was easy to hit.

Earnie Shavers : Tyson KO 3/4

Sonny Liston : Tyson KO 8/9

Floyd Patterson : Tyson TKO 2/4. Fought under 200lbs. Easy pickings

Jerry Quarry : Tyson KO 3/4/5

Oscar Bonavena : Tyson TKO 8. Oscar could seemingly avoid smaller 'Big' Punchers (I think). Would make Tyson work hard.

Rocky Marciano : Tyson TKO 8. Rocky just got hit too much. Seeing as he fought around less than 200lbs. No way would the Referee allow Rocky to continue after a few big hits from Tyson. i just dont see Rocky surviving from a Solid heavier Puncher.

Jersey Joe Walcott : Never rated Walcott, Tyson beats him KO

Joe Louis : Intresting match up. Louis not as good as Ali, but does have that 'Class'. Although i think Holmes was better than Louis, i feel Louis had that "Edge" which made Tyson feel so uncomfortable with. Though Tyson would be favorite, i see Louis winning.

Lenox Lewis: Prime for Prime, Tyson would win KO

Riddick Bowe: Tyson KO. Bowe struggled with Golota, i dont think Tyson would be so forgiving.

Jack Dempsey: fought at less than 200lbs. Would be harder to hit than Rocky, but once hit....

Your take on Holmes is interesting...The usual take is Holmes was shot when he fought Tyson therefore we can't infer too much from that fight...But Holmes had a "whole" career after that fight...He fought on and off for fourteen years and beat some decent fighters...

[Big Bad John]

No, his take on the Holmes fight is stupid. Holmes took that fight on short notice (4 weeks), and hadn't fought in a year and a half. After the fight, Tyson admitted that he wouldn't have beaten a prime Larry Holmes, and I have to agree with him.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

No, his take on the Holmes fight is stupid. Holmes took that fight on short notice (4 weeks), and hadn't fought in a year and a half. After the fight, Tyson admitted that he wouldn't have beaten a prime Larry Holmes, and I have to agree with him.

Holmes must have been past his prime...His last two fights were losses against Michael Spinks....But Holmes put together a nice career after he fought Tyson...

[Big Bad John]

Yeah, once he started training full time. So, let's say that in Tokyo, the unprepared Mike Tyson showed up against a rejuvenated Larry Holmes instead of Buster Douglas. What would have happened?

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Yeah, once he started training full time. So, let's say that in Tokyo, the unprepared Mike Tyson showed up against a rejuvenated Larry Holmes instead of Buster Douglas. What would have happened?

I think Holmes could have beat Aluminum Mike but there was a point in his career like any boxer's career where he would have not been able to...

I don't think the Holmes who lost to Spinks even though he was arguably jobbed could have beat Tyson... But an earlier version could...

[sockdolager]

How do you gentlemen think Mike Tyson would do against the following boxers in his mythical prime?

Muhammad Ali -Ali UD or late stoppage

Larry Holmes- Holmes UD or late stoppage

George Foreman- Foreman late stoppage

Joe Frazier- Fraizer mid to late KO

Earnie Shavers- Tyson KO mid to late

Sonny Liston- Tyson late TKO or close decision

Floyd Patterson- Tyson KO

Jerry Quarry- Tyson TKO (cuts)

Oscar Bonavena- Tyson UD

Rocky Marciano- Marciano KO mid to late

Jersey Joe Walcott- Tyson KO

Joe Louis- Louis UD or late stoppage

Lenox Lewis- Tyson KO (tough one but Lewis can be hit by a prime Mike imo)

Riddick Bowe- Bowe KO

Jack Dempsey- Tyson KO mid to late (one hell of a fight)

[raylawpc]

Yeah, once he started training full time. So, let's say that in Tokyo, the unprepared Mike Tyson showed up against a rejuvenated Larry Holmes instead of Buster Douglas. What would have happened?

How do you rejuvenate an (almost) 41-year-old Holmes who would have been out of the ring for two years by that point, had had only one fight since 1986, and that a 4-round TKO loss against the guy (Tyson) you now have him going in against?

[Big Bad John]

If Holmes had started his comeback earlier, I'm assuming.

[raylawpc]

Oh . . . okay.

[observer1]

Yeah, once he started training full time. So, let's say that in Tokyo, the unprepared Mike Tyson showed up against a rejuvenated Larry Holmes instead of Buster Douglas. What would have happened?

Read the title thread, "Tyson in his Prime".



nobody cares what happened after douglas fight. He was nowhere near his prime or his best.

[Big Bad John]

Tyson was in his prime for the Buster Douglas fight. He lost because he's stupid, and he's always been stupid.

[observer1]

Tyson was in his prime for the Buster Douglas fight. He lost because he's stupid, and he's always been stupid.

How was Tyson in his Prime? Physically Yes, but Boxing-wise NO, he was shot to pieces after he fired his trainers, he more-or-less stopped training and living a very very dumb lifestyle. any one of his fights was a loss waiting to happen.

You only need to compare the Holmes fight to the Douglas fight, you'd convince someone Tyson's twin was fighting.

[Ezzard]

At 24 Tyson has to be in his prime. If his head was elsewhere than that is the man, that is what he was. His opponents got psyched out by Tyson...nobody gives them the benefit of the doubt. maybe Tyson got psyched out by himself...

Do we do the same for Bowe? Schmeling? Sharkey? All could be inconsistent during their primes.

I pretty much agree with Dempsey except that I give Tyson a decent chance against Frazier and Foreman though i think both would beat him. I also think Lewis beats him more lielly than not and maybe Bowe too...

[Jaybee From The Castle]

I think the title should have stated, "Prime Tyson vs the following fighters in THEIR primes"...would have saved a lot of the pointless arguments above.

Tyson (88) Vs Ali (67) has long fascinated me, but I resolved it on the back of Frazier and Foreman's respective performances. Common "wisdom" has it that the fight will either go the distance with Ali by points, or end within 4 with a Tyson nuke landing. I have determined that the latter is the likeliest outcome.

Ali was close to prime speed in '71 against the similarly built Foreman, and for all his dancing, shuffling and general lateral movement, still couldn't avoid being walked down by him. He would have nothing in his arsenal to get through Tyson's guard with nearly sufficient force, even his jabs would be slipped.

I MUST conclude that the much faster Tyson would land on him at will and with deadly frequency, to both face and body. Ali WILL be able to land some shots while Tyson is close quarters, but given Mike's chin, nothing that will faze him before he lands the coup de grace in the 4th.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

I think the title should have stated, "Prime Tyson vs the following fighters in THEIR primes"...would have saved a lot of the pointless arguments above.

Tyson (88) Vs Ali (67) has long fascinated me, but I resolved it on the back of Frazier and Foreman's respective performances. Common "wisdom" has it that the fight will either go the distance with Ali by points, or end within 4 with a Tyson nuke landing. I have determined that the latter is the likeliest outcome.

Ali was close to prime speed in '71 against the similarly built Foreman, and for all his dancing, shuffling and general lateral movement, still couldn't avoid being walked down by him. He would have nothing in his arsenal to get through Tyson's guard with nearly sufficient force, even his jabs would be slipped.

I MUST conclude that the much faster Tyson would land on him at will and with deadly frequency, to both face and body. Ali WILL be able to land some shots while Tyson is close quarters, but given Mike's chin, nothing that will faze him before he lands the coup de grace in the 4th.

Some points

1) Ali had sixty one fights ...He was stopped once as a burned out thirty eight year old man on thyroid medicine, and with nascent Parkinson's Syndrome...Prior to that he took punches from George Foreman and Earnie Shavers who both hit harder than Foreman without going down...I don't see Tyson KOing him in four rounds or any amount of rounds...

2) It's interesting you pick 1988...In 87 such boxing luminaries as Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker took Tyson the distance and in 1990 Buster Douglas knocked him out...

3) The Ali who fought Frazier in 1971 was not the same Muhammad Ali who knocked out Zora Folley in 1967 before his three and one half year banishment from boxing...Most analysts have said he didn't have the same legs anymore...He could "dance" but not as long...It was only when Ali stopped "dancing" that Joe was able to score...

4) Joe showed tremendous heart and paid the price for that win ...He was never the same fighter...He spent a month in the hospital! I doubt Tyson has the heart to pay that price...

5) Ali has three styles to choose from to beat Tyson...Tyson has one...I'll go with the army or boxer that has more and sophisticated weapons in its arsenal...Ali can dance, Ali can go to the ropes, Ali can use movement...