Classic American West Coast Boxing

[BoxBuzz]

May he rest in peace, A great champion with a spirit the size of California.

[kikibalt]

Service's for Mando Ramos will be on Friday July 18, 2008 at the Wilmington Longshoremen Hall, from 4 PM to 8 PM.

Will post address later.

Frank, let me know what time you think you will be there. I'll leave work early and try to get there at the same time. Rodolfo Gonzalez's lady Barbara and Sylvia are close friends. Last night they spoke at length. I spoke with "Gato" today and he and I might meet tomorrow at the studio, perhaps we can all get together at the services?

-Rick

Rick,

I'll let you know as to what time I plan on getting there, and yes we can all get together there.

[Expug]

Hey, Expug, I hear Johnny Lira is in a bad way from liver disease.

Thats bad news.
I havent seen him in a couple years or so.
I didnt know about this.
Do you have any more details?
Thanks Bennie.

[kikibalt]

Tuesday, July 08, 2008
Goodbye to Mando Ramos
By Randy De La O

I first met Mando in January or February or 1976. It was at the Main Street Gym in Los Angeles during the filming of Rocky. He was literally at the end of his career as a boxer having fought his last fight just a few months earlier. I had not yet had a fight. To say that I was in awe of Mando would be an understatement. Yet he took the time to talk with me. He treated me as an equal. He talked about making a comeback, fighting as a middleweight. At that time he still saw a future for himself in boxing. As it turns out, he never fought again. I saw him twice over the years. I have a personally autographed photo given to me by him. I did not know Mando well enough to call him friend, nor could I say that I was an acquaintance of his. I met him and that was good enough. Mando and I will forever share the same scene in Rocky.

Mando was home cooking, he was mama's homemade tortillas or tacos, a bowl of menudo, enjoyed crudo from the night before, he was a cruise down Whittier Blvd in East L.A. He wasn't simply like us, he was us, puro Chicano. He could have been our cousin, our brother. He was family. We shared his success and his failures. He made the same mistakes in life we made. We understood him.

As much as; Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers, Ruben Salazar and the Chicano Moratorium, Rudolfo Gonzales and the Chicano Manifesto, Carlos Santana and any of his music, Edward James Olmos as El Pachuco in Zootsuit or it’s writer and director Luis Valdez, or author Victor Villasenor, Armando "Mando" Ramos was a Chicano icon. He was our gladiator, our champion. Like Hector, Prince of Troy, he stepped into the arena to do battle with his fists. He gave us a reason to stand a little taller. In “American Me” the 1992 movie starring Edward James Olmos, Olmos pays homage to Mando Ramos when his character, Montoya Santana says this about Mando "Hey vatos; Do you know who the best fighter in the world is pound for pound? Hands down, vatos, hands down! Los jabs, los hooks, los uppercuts...Mando Ramos!" Olmos spoke for all of us.

With respect to those that came before him, and to those that would come after, there was no more popular and beloved fighter to come out of the Los Angeles area. It didn't matter if you were from San Pedro. East Los Angeles, Santa Ana, the San Fernando Valley or the San Gabriel Valley, or Pico Rivera, he was ours, he was us. Maybe that’s what endeared him to us. He didn’t march down the street in the parade of life waving to us, though he could have, instead he sat in the bleachers with us watching the parade. I honestly believe that God has all of us where we belong. For Mando, though he did not know it at the time, boxing was not an end but a means to an end. Because of his life with alcohol and drugs, and because he had succumbed to temptation early in his life, and learned from it, he was able to help other young men and boys who were dealing with many of the same problems. He founded Boxers Against Alcohol and drugs. He became known as Mr. BAAD. That was his calling, that is where God wanted him to be. It says a lot about too Mando, and maybe even more about his wife Sylvia, that at the time of his death, they had been married thirty two years.

Because they shared the moniker “the Golden Boy”, Art Aragon and Oscar De La Hoya have often been compared, but in many ways Oscar’s career was closer to Mando’s. tall for their weight, boyish good looks, charming personalities, a golden smile and tons of ability, including a left hook. As much as I am a fan of De la Hoya, and I am, in Los Angeles, not even he could fill the Olympic Auditorium like Mando. With Mando, it’s hard not ask the question “What if?” It’s no secret that Mando would rather party than train. It’s also no secret that he fought many of his fights while high, either on booze or drugs. So you have to wonder just how good Mando really was and just how great he might have been. Roberto Duran and Mando Ramos were, more or less contemporaries, so it’s not inconceivable that at some point in time they would have met. That fight alone is worth grieving for. Mando came of age as a boxer and as a man, just before, cable, pay per view, and the million dollar paydays. Who knows what might have been?

Mando began his professional career, under the guidance of trainer Jackie McCoy, with a five round decision win over a fighter named Berlin Roberts on November 18, 1965 at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles. He ended his career with a second round knockout loss to Wayne Beale on October 29, 1975 at the silver Slipper in Las Vegas, Nevada. In between he took us on a roller coaster ride as he became the youngest fighter to win the lightweight title. The first time against Teo Cruz on February 18, 1969. Three years to the date he won the title again, this time from Pedro Carrasco on February 18, 1972. Along the way, and on a roller coaster career filled with moments of happiness, sorrow and regret, he fought the likes of Hiroshi Kobayashi, Frankie Crawford, Ismael Laguna, Sugar Ramos, Raul Rojas, Ruben Navarro, Chango Carmona and Tury Pineda. He ended his career with 49 fights, 37 wins with 23 knockouts, 11 losses, 6 by knockout and 1 draw. Win, lose or draw, Mando Ramos fought with all his fights with heart. What more could we have asked of him. Mando Ramos passed away this past Sunday morning at his home in San Pedro, California. he was 59. The cause of death is still to be determined. Pues, hay te watcho, Mando.

[Expug]

Hey, Expug, I hear Johnny Lira is in a bad way from liver disease.

Thats bad news.
I havent seen him in a couple years or so.
I didnt know about this.
Do you have any more details?
Thanks Bennie.

Ive recieved some info on this your right.
He was keeping it quiet I guess.
He has been going through treatments at Walter Payton Liver treatment center.
There is a benefit set for him at Degerberg Martial Arts Academy in Chicago on July 19th.
Johnny used to teach some boxing classes there.

[raylawpc]

Ingemar Johansson & Eddie Machen

Gothenberg, Sweden

17 September 1958

Your Swedish friend thanks you for posting that great photo of Ingo!

[kikibalt]

Ingemar Johansson & Eddie Machen

Gothenberg, Sweden

17 September 1958

Your Swedish friend thanks you for posting that great photo of Ingo!

Was thinking of you when I posted that pic.....

[raylawpc]

You're a true friend, Frank. I wish I could have known you when we were both active in the game.

[Bobbin & Weavin]

Tuesday, July 08, 2008
Goodbye to Mando Ramos
By Randy De La O

I first met Mando in January or February or 1976. It was at the Main Street Gym in Los Angeles during the filming of Rocky. He was literally at the end of his career as a boxer having fought his last fight just a few months earlier. I had not yet had a fight. To say that I was in awe of Mando would be an understatement. Yet he took the time to talk with me. He treated me as an equal. He talked about making a comeback, fighting as a middleweight. At that time he still saw a future for himself in boxing. As it turns out, he never fought again. I saw him twice over the years. I have a personally autographed photo given to me by him. I did not know Mando well enough to call him friend, nor could I say that I was an acquaintance of his. I met him and that was good enough. Mando and I will forever share the same scene in Rocky.

Mando was home cooking, he was mama's homemade tortillas or tacos, a bowl of menudo, enjoyed crudo from the night before, he was a cruise down Whittier Blvd in East L.A. He wasn't simply like us, he was us, puro Chicano. He could have been our cousin, our brother. He was family. We shared his success and his failures. He made the same mistakes in life we made. We understood him.

As much as; Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers, Ruben Salazar and the Chicano Moratorium, Rudolfo Gonzales and the Chicano Manifesto, Carlos Santana and any of his music, Edward James Olmos as El Pachuco in Zootsuit or it’s writer and director Luis Valdez, or author Victor Villasenor, Armando "Mando" Ramos was a Chicano icon. He was our gladiator, our champion. Like Hector, Prince of Troy, he stepped into the arena to do battle with his fists. He gave us a reason to stand a little taller. In “American Me” the 1992 movie starring Edward James Olmos, Olmos pays homage to Mando Ramos when his character, Montoya Santana says this about Mando "Hey vatos; Do you know who the best fighter in the world is pound for pound? Hands down, vatos, hands down! Los jabs, los hooks, los uppercuts...Mando Ramos!" Olmos spoke for all of us.

With respect to those that came before him, and to those that would come after, there was no more popular and beloved fighter to come out of the Los Angeles area. It didn't matter if you were from San Pedro. East Los Angeles, Santa Ana, the San Fernando Valley or the San Gabriel Valley, or Pico Rivera, he was ours, he was us. Maybe that’s what endeared him to us. He didn’t march down the street in the parade of life waving to us, though he could have, instead he sat in the bleachers with us watching the parade. I honestly believe that God has all of us where we belong. For Mando, though he did not know it at the time, boxing was not an end but a means to an end. Because of his life with alcohol and drugs, and because he had succumbed to temptation early in his life, and learned from it, he was able to help other young men and boys who were dealing with many of the same problems. He founded Boxers Against Alcohol and drugs. He became known as Mr. BAAD. That was his calling, that is where God wanted him to be. It says a lot about too Mando, and maybe even more about his wife Sylvia, that at the time of his death, they had been married thirty two years.

Because they shared the moniker “the Golden Boy”, Art Aragon and Oscar De La Hoya have often been compared, but in many ways Oscar’s career was closer to Mando’s. tall for their weight, boyish good looks, charming personalities, a golden smile and tons of ability, including a left hook. As much as I am a fan of De la Hoya, and I am, in Los Angeles, not even he could fill the Olympic Auditorium like Mando. With Mando, it’s hard not ask the question “What if?” It’s no secret that Mando would rather party than train. It’s also no secret that he fought many of his fights while high, either on booze or drugs. So you have to wonder just how good Mando really was and just how great he might have been. Roberto Duran and Mando Ramos were, more or less contemporaries, so it’s not inconceivable that at some point in time they would have met. That fight alone is worth grieving for. Mando came of age as a boxer and as a man, just before, cable, pay per view, and the million dollar paydays. Who knows what might have been?

Mando began his professional career, under the guidance of trainer Jackie McCoy, with a five round decision win over a fighter named Berlin Roberts on November 18, 1965 at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles. He ended his career with a second round knockout loss to Wayne Beale on October 29, 1975 at the silver Slipper in Las Vegas, Nevada. In between he took us on a roller coaster ride as he became the youngest fighter to win the lightweight title. The first time against Teo Cruz on February 18, 1969. Three years to the date he won the title again, this time from Pedro Carrasco on February 18, 1972. Along the way, and on a roller coaster career filled with moments of happiness, sorrow and regret, he fought the likes of Hiroshi Kobayashi, Frankie Crawford, Ismael Laguna, Sugar Ramos, Raul Rojas, Ruben Navarro, Chango Carmona and Tury Pineda. He ended his career with 49 fights, 37 wins with 23 knockouts, 11 losses, 6 by knockout and 1 draw. Win, lose or draw, Mando Ramos fought with all his fights with heart. What more could we have asked of him. Mando Ramos passed away this past Sunday morning at his home in San Pedro, California. he was 59. The cause of death is still to be determined. Pues, hay te watcho, Mando.

This is a beautiful piece of writing; could only have been written by someone who knows and feels the passion that boxing brings. Mando Ramos' life is the definition of boxing, full of promise, complicated yet simple, he would marvel and then let you down but that didn't mean you ever stopped loving him; just like our beloved sport. I compliment you on this piece and to the others who have been posting on this thread for the last two hundred pages and I thank you for let me travel the path with you.

Bobbin & Weavin in Nor Cal

[Rick Farris]

Tuesday, July 08, 2008
Goodbye to Mando Ramos
By Randy De La O

I first met Mando in January or February or 1976. It was at the Main Street Gym in Los Angeles during the filming of Rocky. He was literally at the end of his career as a boxer having fought his last fight just a few months earlier. I had not yet had a fight. To say that I was in awe of Mando would be an understatement. Yet he took the time to talk with me. He treated me as an equal. He talked about making a comeback, fighting as a middleweight. At that time he still saw a future for himself in boxing. As it turns out, he never fought again. I saw him twice over the years. I have a personally autographed photo given to me by him. I did not know Mando well enough to call him friend, nor could I say that I was an acquaintance of his. I met him and that was good enough. Mando and I will forever share the same scene in Rocky.

Mando was home cooking, he was mama's homemade tortillas or tacos, a bowl of menudo, enjoyed crudo from the night before, he was a cruise down Whittier Blvd in East L.A. He wasn't simply like us, he was us, puro Chicano. He could have been our cousin, our brother. He was family. We shared his success and his failures. He made the same mistakes in life we made. We understood him.

As much as; Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers, Ruben Salazar and the Chicano Moratorium, Rudolfo Gonzales and the Chicano Manifesto, Carlos Santana and any of his music, Edward James Olmos as El Pachuco in Zootsuit or it’s writer and director Luis Valdez, or author Victor Villasenor, Armando "Mando" Ramos was a Chicano icon. He was our gladiator, our champion. Like Hector, Prince of Troy, he stepped into the arena to do battle with his fists. He gave us a reason to stand a little taller. In “American Me” the 1992 movie starring Edward James Olmos, Olmos pays homage to Mando Ramos when his character, Montoya Santana says this about Mando "Hey vatos; Do you know who the best fighter in the world is pound for pound? Hands down, vatos, hands down! Los jabs, los hooks, los uppercuts...Mando Ramos!" Olmos spoke for all of us.

With respect to those that came before him, and to those that would come after, there was no more popular and beloved fighter to come out of the Los Angeles area. It didn't matter if you were from San Pedro. East Los Angeles, Santa Ana, the San Fernando Valley or the San Gabriel Valley, or Pico Rivera, he was ours, he was us. Maybe that’s what endeared him to us. He didn’t march down the street in the parade of life waving to us, though he could have, instead he sat in the bleachers with us watching the parade. I honestly believe that God has all of us where we belong. For Mando, though he did not know it at the time, boxing was not an end but a means to an end. Because of his life with alcohol and drugs, and because he had succumbed to temptation early in his life, and learned from it, he was able to help other young men and boys who were dealing with many of the same problems. He founded Boxers Against Alcohol and drugs. He became known as Mr. BAAD. That was his calling, that is where God wanted him to be. It says a lot about too Mando, and maybe even more about his wife Sylvia, that at the time of his death, they had been married thirty two years.

Because they shared the moniker “the Golden Boy”, Art Aragon and Oscar De La Hoya have often been compared, but in many ways Oscar’s career was closer to Mando’s. tall for their weight, boyish good looks, charming personalities, a golden smile and tons of ability, including a left hook. As much as I am a fan of De la Hoya, and I am, in Los Angeles, not even he could fill the Olympic Auditorium like Mando. With Mando, it’s hard not ask the question “What if?” It’s no secret that Mando would rather party than train. It’s also no secret that he fought many of his fights while high, either on booze or drugs. So you have to wonder just how good Mando really was and just how great he might have been. Roberto Duran and Mando Ramos were, more or less contemporaries, so it’s not inconceivable that at some point in time they would have met. That fight alone is worth grieving for. Mando came of age as a boxer and as a man, just before, cable, pay per view, and the million dollar paydays. Who knows what might have been?

Mando began his professional career, under the guidance of trainer Jackie McCoy, with a five round decision win over a fighter named Berlin Roberts on November 18, 1965 at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles. He ended his career with a second round knockout loss to Wayne Beale on October 29, 1975 at the silver Slipper in Las Vegas, Nevada. In between he took us on a roller coaster ride as he became the youngest fighter to win the lightweight title. The first time against Teo Cruz on February 18, 1969. Three years to the date he won the title again, this time from Pedro Carrasco on February 18, 1972. Along the way, and on a roller coaster career filled with moments of happiness, sorrow and regret, he fought the likes of Hiroshi Kobayashi, Frankie Crawford, Ismael Laguna, Sugar Ramos, Raul Rojas, Ruben Navarro, Chango Carmona and Tury Pineda. He ended his career with 49 fights, 37 wins with 23 knockouts, 11 losses, 6 by knockout and 1 draw. Win, lose or draw, Mando Ramos fought with all his fights with heart. What more could we have asked of him. Mando Ramos passed away this past Sunday morning at his home in San Pedro, California. he was 59. The cause of death is still to be determined. Pues, hay te watcho, Mando.

Great story, Randy. The first time I saw Mando fight live at the Olympic was in his third pro fight. I had come to see Raul Rojas in the main event. I didn't know it at the time but his opponent, Berlin Roberts, had lost a decision to Ramos in Mando's pro debut two months earlier. When I saw the tall, skinny 17-year-old (he was supposed to be 18) jogging down the aisle and enter the powder blue Olympic Auditorium ring, he looked like he might blow away in a wind storm. As it turned out, it was Mando who would blow away his opponent- in just 18 seconds! Roberts was flattened so quickly that many in the audience didn't see what had happened. After such a quick, stunning KO, Mando Ramos was on his way to becoming a star, a boxing legend. A few fights later, he was selling out the Olympic everytime Aileen Eaton featured him.

Randy, I also like Oscar DeLaHoya, but as you pointed out, nobody since has had the fan appeal or charisma to sell out the 18th & Grand arena like Mando. Mando and I had a few personal differences in recent years, but all that was put aside a couple of years back. I last spoke with him two weeks ago, when I called to invite him to visit the set of the TV production I'm working on. Mando had planned to join Rodolfo Gonzalez and visit us at the studio, however, he had fallen ill the day before and "El Gato" came by himself. Ironically, the cinematographer of the "Cleaner" (The series I'm involved with) had been a paper boy in San Pedro during the late 60's when Mando was on top of the world, and delivered the Herald-Examiner to Mando's home. The cameraman was sorry that Mando could not join us that day because he remembers how well the champ tipped him when he came to collect the monthly delivery bill. "All the kids in the neighborhood loved Mando. We'd follow him to the local market and he'd buy us sodas & candy", Denny Hall remembered. I called Mando and put Denny on the phone with his childhood hero, which made the cameraman's day.

Mando's very last act would be one of compassion and generosity, the hallmark of a true champion. Mando Ramos has donated his body to the UCLA Medical School.
Just like Mando, generous in death as he was in life. Bless you champ, I'll miss you!

-Rick Farris

[bennie]

Mando Ramos

Another great pic from a great man. Thank you, Frankie.
Mando looks majestic in this pic.

[bennie]

Jake LaMotta & Rocky Graziano

These two never fought, of course, which is probably for the best. They would have literally knocked lumps out of one another (and smiled while they were doing it).

[bennie]

Jerry Quarry

This photo was taken long after Jerry's best years. By the time Jerry fought for the last time at age 47, there was evidence of dementia and, in most states with a boxing commission, he could not obtain a license. Quarry's last match was held in Aurora, Colorado and he was easily beaten by a bum. When I think back to Aileen Eaton's early days of glory at the Olympic Auditorium, when she revived boxing in L.A. during the mid-60's, many names come to mind. However, Eaton's two brightest stars were Mando Ramos and Jerry Quarry. These two led the way for the next wave of L.A. stars that included Danny "Little Red" Lopez and Bobby Chacon. Both Jerry and Mando would die in their fifties, shocking most of us who knew them best.

They may be gone, but they will never be forgotten, at least not while I'm still breathing.

-Rick

Not a young shot of Jerry, as Rick points out. The big man took a bad beating in that last fight and dementia soon followed. It would have probably turned up anyway but that last fight really speeded things up. I remember reading that Jerry was in a daze for days afterwards.

[bennie]

Ingemar Johansson & Eddie Machen

Gothenberg, Sweden

17 September 1958

These two should have been out 'birding it' rather than fighting, two handsome, charismatic men (and I say that in a completely heterosexual way). Ingo flattened Machen in the first, of course, and earned the crack at Patterson.
Ingo was no great but that right hand of his was truly, truly deadly if he landed it right. He sparked Henry Cooper in five rounds as further evidence. Henry, ever the lyricist (well, it was Jim Wicks who really did the 'spinning'), claimed Ingo manouvered him into the direct sunlight in an outdoors fight and then nailed him. Face it, Jim, your man got sparked.
Ingo is still alive but has Alzheimer's.

[bennie]

Hey, Expug, I hear Johnny Lira is in a bad way from liver disease.

Thats bad news.
I havent seen him in a couple years or so.
I didnt know about this.
Do you have any more details?
Thanks Bennie.

Ive recieved some info on this your right.
He was keeping it quiet I guess.
He has been going through treatments at Walter Payton Liver treatment center.
There is a benefit set for him at Degerberg Martial Arts Academy in Chicago on July 19th.
Johnny used to teach some boxing classes there.

Yeah, I think you read the same info as I did, Brian. I believe the liver can totally regenerate itself if the damage is not too severe, so here's hoping.

[bennie]

Sugar Ray Robinson & Gene Fullmer & Jim Norris With Julius Helfand

The good fellows in the foreground, and the Goodfellas in the background.
Look at those two gangsters!

[bennie]

Sugar Ray Robinson & Gene Fullmer With Frank Gilmer
24 April 1957

Gene should have checked Robinson's left glove. Oh man, the greatest left hook EVER!

[dagosd2000]

Hey guys , you will be glad to hear that Mandos obituary made it into the Chicago newspapers here.
A nice right up about his career.

Don´t know what it was. Felt down yesterday. Had a pain in my hip. Oh everything is going swell wiith the kids dancing and playing the guitar. My wife is having a great time,but yesterday I felt lousy. Went to the beach and still couldn´t shake that feeling.

I´m sitting in the lounge chair at this beautifull beach in Spain and you think I should be having the time of my life,but today I´m down. I got to thinkung about Mando Ramos. Then it dawned on me. Nothing on the news here about his passing. So maybe you ask,¨who cares about his death all the way in Spain?

Well you guys know the story of him winning the title from Pedro Carrasco. A fews years back Carrasco was voted over here as Spain´s greatest sports hero. Not no bullfighter,or a bicicyle rider,soccer player or that Nadal guy who just won the big tennis match. It was Carrasco. Why? Because he was the only world champ in boxing Spain ever had.

Well this young kid from Long Beach goes over there to try to win Pedro´s crown. No easy feat. Carrasco has lost only once in over 100 fights. But he fights mostly in Spain and he´s never tangled with the likes of Ruben Navarro,Frankie Crawford,Laguna,Cruz,Sugar Ramos. Just to name a few of the tough guys our Southland guy has gone up against.

Carrasco is the man in Spain. Very continental. James Bondish in a way. Tons of money. In the movies,television. Winds up marrying Spain´s most beautifull and popular actress. Well our guy is partying in Boyle heights. Still hangin´out with the guys in the neighborhood. But he´s our guy and we´re pullin´all the way for him in Spain.

As the fight progresses the fans over there are witnessing their idol getting his butt kicked. Mando came into the ring with a couple of Norteno bands loaded in his gloves. Carrasco looked like he was packin´Mantovani and Strings. By round 11,all the instruments in the orchestra have been smashed and Carrasco is on the seat of his pants. He ain´t gonna´last. Well in Spain they won´t have the inevitable happen so the ref DQ´s our Southland kid on a foul. The ref raises Pedro´s hand but his head is swimmin´around like the Nina,the Pinta,and the Santa Maria. Carrasco is still the champ,a national hero,but everyone knew, Sure they celebrated,but they saw what happened. Jesse James couldn´t have commited a better robbery.

There´s a rematsh and then the rubber go back in LA. and Mando wins them both in close decisions. Could have gone the other way maybe,but Mando was doin´his Mando thing and spending more time with Jose Cuervo than his trainers. Carrasco retires ,still a hero and goes back to Spain to live the good life on the Riviera. We know what happened with our guy. He could beat them all, except himself. Sleeping in cars and out of the game and broke before 30.

Saw Mando like i was tellin´ya´at the Banquet in Commerce CA:
. The town had seen it´s best years a long time ago. Just the way Mando looked that afternoon. He got up their with his dad to get his plaque. His dad was shadow boxing. Mando was smiling and he talked about Spain. He said the people there called him ¨The Lion Of Spain ¨But there were sour grapes from our guy about that decision. He went back to Spain to to spend his money on booze and broads and blow the rest. He was happy that afternoon at the steakhouse.

So as I was sitting on the beach in Spain watching the brown bouncing boobies in the waves and watching the boys play paddle ball on the shoreline ,I thought of the kid from Long Beach. Our guy goin´over there and when it was over they called him the Lion Of Spain.

[bennie]

Boxing in Spain is in the doldrums, as it is in Italy and many other countries you normally associate with the sport.
Even Argentina is doing badly.

[kikibalt]

You're a true friend, Frank. I wish I could have known you when we were both active in the game.

Same here,Tom, same here!

[kikibalt]

Tuesday, July 08, 2008
Goodbye to Mando Ramos
By Randy De La O

I first met Mando in January or February or 1976. It was at the Main Street Gym in Los Angeles during the filming of Rocky. He was literally at the end of his career as a boxer having fought his last fight just a few months earlier. I had not yet had a fight. To say that I was in awe of Mando would be an understatement. Yet he took the time to talk with me. He treated me as an equal. He talked about making a comeback, fighting as a middleweight. At that time he still saw a future for himself in boxing. As it turns out, he never fought again. I saw him twice over the years. I have a personally autographed photo given to me by him. I did not know Mando well enough to call him friend, nor could I say that I was an acquaintance of his. I met him and that was good enough. Mando and I will forever share the same scene in Rocky.

Mando was home cooking, he was mama's homemade tortillas or tacos, a bowl of menudo, enjoyed crudo from the night before, he was a cruise down Whittier Blvd in East L.A. He wasn't simply like us, he was us, puro Chicano. He could have been our cousin, our brother. He was family. We shared his success and his failures. He made the same mistakes in life we made. We understood him.

As much as; Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers, Ruben Salazar and the Chicano Moratorium, Rudolfo Gonzales and the Chicano Manifesto, Carlos Santana and any of his music, Edward James Olmos as El Pachuco in Zootsuit or it’s writer and director Luis Valdez, or author Victor Villasenor, Armando "Mando" Ramos was a Chicano icon. He was our gladiator, our champion. Like Hector, Prince of Troy, he stepped into the arena to do battle with his fists. He gave us a reason to stand a little taller. In “American Me” the 1992 movie starring Edward James Olmos, Olmos pays homage to Mando Ramos when his character, Montoya Santana says this about Mando "Hey vatos; Do you know who the best fighter in the world is pound for pound? Hands down, vatos, hands down! Los jabs, los hooks, los uppercuts...Mando Ramos!" Olmos spoke for all of us.

With respect to those that came before him, and to those that would come after, there was no more popular and beloved fighter to come out of the Los Angeles area. It didn't matter if you were from San Pedro. East Los Angeles, Santa Ana, the San Fernando Valley or the San Gabriel Valley, or Pico Rivera, he was ours, he was us. Maybe that’s what endeared him to us. He didn’t march down the street in the parade of life waving to us, though he could have, instead he sat in the bleachers with us watching the parade. I honestly believe that God has all of us where we belong. For Mando, though he did not know it at the time, boxing was not an end but a means to an end. Because of his life with alcohol and drugs, and because he had succumbed to temptation early in his life, and learned from it, he was able to help other young men and boys who were dealing with many of the same problems. He founded Boxers Against Alcohol and drugs. He became known as Mr. BAAD. That was his calling, that is where God wanted him to be. It says a lot about too Mando, and maybe even more about his wife Sylvia, that at the time of his death, they had been married thirty two years.

Because they shared the moniker “the Golden Boy”, Art Aragon and Oscar De La Hoya have often been compared, but in many ways Oscar’s career was closer to Mando’s. tall for their weight, boyish good looks, charming personalities, a golden smile and tons of ability, including a left hook. As much as I am a fan of De la Hoya, and I am, in Los Angeles, not even he could fill the Olympic Auditorium like Mando. With Mando, it’s hard not ask the question “What if?” It’s no secret that Mando would rather party than train. It’s also no secret that he fought many of his fights while high, either on booze or drugs. So you have to wonder just how good Mando really was and just how great he might have been. Roberto Duran and Mando Ramos were, more or less contemporaries, so it’s not inconceivable that at some point in time they would have met. That fight alone is worth grieving for. Mando came of age as a boxer and as a man, just before, cable, pay per view, and the million dollar paydays. Who knows what might have been?

Mando began his professional career, under the guidance of trainer Jackie McCoy, with a five round decision win over a fighter named Berlin Roberts on November 18, 1965 at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles. He ended his career with a second round knockout loss to Wayne Beale on October 29, 1975 at the silver Slipper in Las Vegas, Nevada. In between he took us on a roller coaster ride as he became the youngest fighter to win the lightweight title. The first time against Teo Cruz on February 18, 1969. Three years to the date he won the title again, this time from Pedro Carrasco on February 18, 1972. Along the way, and on a roller coaster career filled with moments of happiness, sorrow and regret, he fought the likes of Hiroshi Kobayashi, Frankie Crawford, Ismael Laguna, Sugar Ramos, Raul Rojas, Ruben Navarro, Chango Carmona and Tury Pineda. He ended his career with 49 fights, 37 wins with 23 knockouts, 11 losses, 6 by knockout and 1 draw. Win, lose or draw, Mando Ramos fought with all his fights with heart. What more could we have asked of him. Mando Ramos passed away this past Sunday morning at his home in San Pedro, California. he was 59. The cause of death is still to be determined. Pues, hay te watcho, Mando.

This is a beautiful piece of writing; could only have been written by someone who knows and feels the passion that boxing brings. Mando Ramos' life is the definition of boxing, full of promise, complicated yet simple, he would marvel and then let you down but that didn't mean you ever stopped loving him; just like our beloved sport. I compliment you on this piece and to the others who have been posting on this thread for the last two hundred pages and I thank you for let me travel the path with you.

Bobbin & Weavin in Nor Cal

B & W,

Randy, who is a good friend of mine is like Rick & diego, a gifted writer, these guys can take pen in hand, and take you down memory lane like very few can, I have lots of memories of years gone by, but at this stage of my life, they are just a blur, but I was never much of a writer anyway, so I haven't lost anything.

I'm glad to see you and some others come and join us as we take this journey down memory lane, enjoy.

[bennie]

Sugar Ray Robinson & Gene Fullmer & Jim Norris With Julius Helfand

Even in a suit, Fullmer looks like a blacksmith or something.

[Expug]

Hey guys , you will be glad to hear that Mandos obituary made it into the Chicago newspapers here.
A nice right up about his career.

Don´t know what it was. Felt down yesterday. Had a pain in my hip. Oh everything is going swell wiith the kids dancing and playing the guitar. My wife is having a great time,but yesterday I felt lousy. Went to the beach and still couldn´t shake that feeling.

I´m sitting in the lounge chair at this beautifull beach in Spain and you think I should be having the time of my life,but today I´m down. I got to thinkung about Mando Ramos. Then it dawned on me. Nothing on the news here about his passing. So maybe you ask,¨who cares about his death all the way in Spain?

Well you guys know the story of him winning the title from Pedro Carrasco. A fews years back Carrasco was voted over here as Spain´s greatest sports hero. Not no bullfighter,or a bicicyle rider,soccer player or that Nadal guy who just won the big tennis match. It was Carrasco. Why? Because he was the only world champ in boxing Spain ever had.

Well this young kid from Long Beach goes over there to try to win Pedro´s crown. No easy feat. Carrasco has lost only once in over 100 fights. But he fights mostly in Spain and he´s never tangled with the likes of Ruben Navarro,Frankie Crawford,Laguna,Cruz,Sugar Ramos. Just to name a few of the tough guys our Southland guy has gone up against.

Carrasco is the man in Spain. Very continental. James Bondish in a way. Tons of money. In the movies,television. Winds up marrying Spain´s most beautifull and popular actress. Well our guy is partying in Boyle heights. Still hangin´out with the guys in the neighborhood. But he´s our guy and we´re pullin´all the way for him in Spain.

As the fight progresses the fans over there are witnessing their idol getting his butt kicked. Mando came into the ring with a couple of Norteno bands loaded in his gloves. Carrasco looked like he was packin´Mantovani and Strings. By round 11,all the instruments in the orchestra have been smashed and Carrasco is on the seat of his pants. He ain´t gonna´last. Well in Spain they won´t have the inevitable happen so the ref DQ´s our Southland kid on a foul. Carrasco is still the champ,a national hero,but everyone knew, Sure they celebrated,but they saw what happened. Jesse James couldn´t have commited a better robbery.

There´s a rematsh and then the rubber go back in LA. and Mando wins them both in close decisions. Could have gone the other way maybe,but Mando was doin´his Mando thing and spending more time with Jose Cuervo than his trainers. Carrasco retires ,still a hero and goes back to Spain to live the good life on the Riviera. We know what happened with our guy. He could beat them all, except himself. Sleeping in cars and out of the game and broke before 30.

Saw Mando like i was tellin´ya´at the Banquet in Commerce CA:
. The town had seen it´s best years a long time ago. Just the way Mando looked that afternoon. He got up their with his dad to get his plaque. His dad was shadow boxing. Mando was smiling and he talked about Spain. He said the people there called him ¨The Lion Of Spain ¨But there were sour grapes from our guy about that decision. He went back to Spain to to spend his money on booze and broads and blow the rest. He was happy that afternoon at the steakhouse.

So as I was sitting on the beach in Spain watching the brown bouncing boobies in the surf and watching the boys play soccer in the surf line,I thought of the kid from Long Beach. Our guy goin´over there and when it was over they called him the Lion Of Spain.

The first Carrasco fight Mando had Pedro down a couple times, after the last time he went down they dqd Mando for "pushing" Carrasco down.
Jackie McCoy said "if he pushed him, why aint he getting up".

[bennie]

Hey guys , you will be glad to hear that Mandos obituary made it into the Chicago newspapers here.
A nice right up about his career.

Don´t know what it was. Felt down yesterday. Had a pain in my hip. Oh everything is going swell wiith the kids dancing and playing the guitar. My wife is having a great time,but yesterday I felt lousy. Went to the beach and still couldn´t shake that feeling.

I´m sitting in the lounge chair at this beautifull beach in Spain and you think I should be having the time of my life,but today I´m down. I got to thinkung about Mando Ramos. Then it dawned on me. Nothing on the news here about his passing. So maybe you ask,¨who cares about his death all the way in Spain?

Well you guys know the story of him winning the title from Pedro Carrasco. A fews years back Carrasco was voted over here as Spain´s greatest sports hero. Not no bullfighter,or a bicicyle rider,soccer player or that Nadal guy who just won the big tennis match. It was Carrasco. Why? Because he was the only world champ in boxing Spain ever had.

Well this young kid from Long Beach goes over there to try to win Pedro´s crown. No easy feat. Carrasco has lost only once in over 100 fights. But he fights mostly in Spain and he´s never tangled with the likes of Ruben Navarro,Frankie Crawford,Laguna,Cruz,Sugar Ramos. Just to name a few of the tough guys our Southland guy has gone up against.

Carrasco is the man in Spain. Very continental. James Bondish in a way. Tons of money. In the movies,television. Winds up marrying Spain´s most beautifull and popular actress. Well our guy is partying in Boyle heights. Still hangin´out with the guys in the neighborhood. But he´s our guy and we´re pullin´all the way for him in Spain.

As the fight progresses the fans over there are witnessing their idol getting his butt kicked. Mando came into the ring with a couple of Norteno bands loaded in his gloves. Carrasco looked like he was packin´Mantovani and Strings. By round 11,all the instruments in the orchestra have been smashed and Carrasco is on the seat of his pants. He ain´t gonna´last. Well in Spain they won´t have the inevitable happen so the ref DQ´s our Southland kid on a foul. Carrasco is still the champ,a national hero,but everyone knew, Sure they celebrated,but they saw what happened. Jesse James couldn´t have commited a better robbery.

There´s a rematsh and then the rubber go back in LA. and Mando wins them both in close decisions. Could have gone the other way maybe,but Mando was doin´his Mando thing and spending more time with Jose Cuervo than his trainers. Carrasco retires ,still a hero and goes back to Spain to live the good life on the Riviera. We know what happened with our guy. He could beat them all, except himself. Sleeping in cars and out of the game and broke before 30.

Saw Mando like i was tellin´ya´at the Banquet in Commerce CA:
. The town had seen it´s best years a long time ago. Just the way Mando looked that afternoon. He got up their with his dad to get his plaque. His dad was shadow boxing. Mando was smiling and he talked about Spain. He said the people there called him ¨The Lion Of Spain ¨But there were sour grapes from our guy about that decision. He went back to Spain to to spend his money on booze and broads and blow the rest. He was happy that afternoon at the steakhouse.

So as I was sitting on the beach in Spain watching the brown bouncing boobies in the surf and watching the boys play soccer in the surf line,I thought of the kid from Long Beach. Our guy goin´over there and when it was over they called him the Lion Of Spain.

The first Carrasco fight Mando had Pedro down a couple times, after the last time he went down they dqd Mando for "pushing" Carrasco down.
Jackie McCoy said "if he pushed him, why aint he getting up".

Yeah, they robbed Buchanan in Spain, too, only less blatantly (on a decision).

[kikibalt]

Tim Rutten:
Requiem for a boxing town
The recent deaths of two boxing greats remind us of a forgotten era when the sport flourished in L.A.

It was a melancholy thing to see the face of handsome young Mando Ramos, once the lightweight boxing champion of the world, staring up off the obituary page of Monday's Times. He was just 20 when he won the crown, and just 59 when he died of natural causes in his sleep Sunday. More than 20 years ago, he waged a successful fight with alcohol and drug addiction, but diabetes and a back injury suffered while working as a longshoreman had sapped his health in recent years.

He was the second Los Angeles boxing great to die this year. Art Aragon -- who in the late 1940s and '50s drew crowds in the tens of thousands and Hollywood actresses in droves -- died in March at the age of 80.

There was a time when Ramos and Aragon were sporting names as resonant as Kobe Bryant or Sandy Koufax, but their quiet passing is a sobering reminder that Los Angeles is a city of many histories, each with its own celebrities. It isn't well understood -- or even much recalled these days -- that L.A. always was one of the world's great boxing cities.

Since 1906, when the Irish American Tommy Burns defeated Marvin Hart for the heavyweight title in the city's first important championship fight, L.A. has produced legions of world-class boxers, including Jim Jefferies, Enrique Bolanos, Aragon, Ramos, Bobby Chacon, the Lopez brothers (Ernie and Danny), Armando Muniz, Shane Mosely and Oscar De La Hoya.

Among aficionados of the "sweet science" around the world, Los Angeles is recognized as a boxing Mecca, although the sport has seemed to recede in recent years. In part, that's because, like the history of the working-class and immigrant sports fans who idolized fighters like Ramos, the story of boxing in L.A. is a scattered and neglected one, still awaiting a narrator.

Ramos, for example, ended up on the docks because he was handled by Hall of Fame trainer Jackie McCoy, a onetime longshoreman who never gave up his union card. When two of his champions -- Ramos and former welterweight titleholder Don Jordan -- came to the end of their careers, McCoy got them into the union. Jordan, who despite his name was a Spanish-speaker from East L.A., died in 1997 after a beating he'd suffered in a parking lot left him in a yearlong coma.

Partly, Los Angeles neglects its pugilistic history out of embarrassment. A culture that criminalizes secondhand smoke and regards veal as a cruelty is unlikely to glorify a sport rooted in struggle and the street, one in which competition is stripped to its brutal essence.

Today, Los Angeles no longer has a venue that makes matches or holds weekly cards. The Olympic, where Ramos' great patroness, the matchmaker Eileen Eaton, once reigned, is closed. The Forum, where Don Fraser made the matches, is now a mega-church. The late Howie Steindler's Main Street Gym, where, as a sign used to proclaim, "The Greatest Fighters In the World Train Here," is a parking lot.

Professional boxing flourishes mainly as programming for cable and pay-for-view television. Even there, though, the brightest star long has been East L.A.'s De La Hoya. His career is nearing its end, but his popularity endures. He is, after all, the good-looking guy who won middle-aged Chicana hearts from Downey to El Sereno when he dedicated the 1992 Olympic gold medal he won in Barcelona to his mother's memory.

Today, if you want to get the bittersweet flavor of the sweet science as practiced in gritty L.A., you can turn to literary fiction. Try Yxta Maya Murray's marvelous 1999 novel, "What It Takes to Get to Vegas," whose female protagonist is one of the most memorable in recent L.A. fiction. Or seek out "Rope Burn," F.X. Toole's superb short story collection, which includes the novella-length "Million Dollar Baby" and his flawed but fascinating posthumously published novel, "Pound for Pound."

F.X. Toole was the pseudonym of a onetime fighter named Jerry Boyd, who was born in Long Beach, lived in L.A. and had a 22-year career as a trainer and cut man, mostly on the local boxing circuit. Along the way, he studied theater and worked as a longshoreman and bartender. Boyd was 70 when his first book came out, and two years later was working on the novel when he died after emergency heart surgery. His last words were, "Doc, get me just a little more time. I gotta finish my book."

Somebody, someday, needs to say the same for the story of boxing in Los Angeles.

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