Classic American West Coast Boxing

[kikibalt]

What's your take on Sulaiman, Frankie, given your boy was WBC No. 1 and yet never got a shot?

Bennie


Bennie,

At the time Frankie fought Bazooka Limon, the WBC ratings for the JLWs were, Limon #1, Frankie #2 and Ilefonso Bethelmy #3, Sulaiman order that #1 and #2, Bazooka and Frankie fight with the winner fighting #3 Bethelmy for the vacated title.

Go figure.

I guess, its who lines his pockets the most.

What more can I say....

[bennie]

What's your take on Sulaiman, Frankie, given your boy was WBC No. 1 and yet never got a shot?

Bennie


Bennie,

At the time Frankie fought Bazooka Limon, the WBC ratings for the JLWs were, Limon #1, Frankie #2 and Ilefonso Bethelmy #3, Sulaiman order that #1 and #2, Bazooka and Frankie fight with the winner fighting #3 Bethelmy for the vacated title.

Go figure.

I guess, its who lines his pockets the most.

Go figure, indeed. I was a huge fan of the super-feathers (jr lights) around that time, given Arguello's exploits (what a puncher Alexis was, with a jaw to match!) and that Boza was also doing so well at the weight. You know what, I had never even heard of Bethelmy! Where the hell did he come from?
He disappeared as mysteriously as he appeared.

[kikibalt]

What's your take on Sulaiman, Frankie, given your boy was WBC No. 1 and yet never got a shot?

Bennie


Bennie,

At the time Frankie fought Bazooka Limon, the WBC ratings for the JLWs were, Limon #1, Frankie #2 and Ilefonso Bethelmy #3, Sulaiman order that #1 and #2, Bazooka and Frankie fight with the winner fighting #3 Bethelmy for the vacated title.

Go figure.

I guess, its who lines his pockets the most.

Go figure, indeed. I was a huge fan of the super-feathers (jr lights) around that time, given Arguello's exploits (what a puncher Alexis was, with a jaw to match!) and that Boza was also doing so well at the weight. You know what, I had never even heard of Bethelmy! Where the hell did he come from?
He disappeared as mysteriously as he appeared.

boxer: Idelfonso Bethelmy
Global ID 53263
sex male
division super featherweight
nationality Venezuela
residence
won 21 (KO 16) + lost 5 (KO 3) + drawn 3 = 29
rounds boxed 173 : KO% 55.17
biography




bouts
Lb St Kg date print

date Lb opponent Lb W - L - D last 6 location
1981-11-25 Felix Mendez 12-3-2
Caracas, Venezuela D PTS 10 10
1980-12-11 129¼ Rafael Limon 129¼ 46-10-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L TKO 15 15
~ time: 1:21 | referee: Larry Rozadilla | judge: Lou Filippo 129-136 | judge: Jorge L. Velasco 129-137 | judge: Carlos R. Cartaya 135-136 ~
~ vacant WBC super featherweight title ~

1980-07-28 Costeno Mendoza 0-0-0
Nuevo Circo, Caracas, Venezuela W PTS 10 10
1980-07-14 Benito Jimenez 5-8-2
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 2 0
1980-02-11 Francisco Aponte 0-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 1 0
1979-12-21 Leonel Hernandez 43-6-1
Caracas, Venezuela W PTS 12 12
~ WBC FECARBOX super featherweight title ~

1979-03-25 Kioshi Takano 0-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 2 0
1978-06-25 Ezequiel Cocoa Sanchez 26-7-1
Caracas, Venezuela D PTS 12 12
~ WBC FECARBOX super featherweight title ~

1978-05-28 Lorenzo Torres 1-8-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 6 0
1978-03-12 Wilson Mosquera 0-1-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 6 0
1977-12-18 Wilson Mosquera 0-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 5 0
1977-12-04 Pedro Garcia 0-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 2 0
1977-06-19 Mario Martinez 0-3-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 9 12
~ WBC FECARBOX super featherweight title ~

1977-05-29 Rafael Solis 8-0-1
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 1 0
1977-03-30 Enrique Maxwell 13-6-2
Caracas, Venezuela W PTS 10 10
1976-12-19 Jorge Villarino 2-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 4 0
1976-12-05 Adalberto Gomez 1-7-1
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 2 0
1976-11-07 Raul Garcia 0-2-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 9 0
1976-02-28 Jose Cervantes 10-2-1
Caracas, Venezuela D PTS 10 10
1975-12-22 Leonardo Cruz 22-2-2
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic L PTS 10 10
1975-11-17 Antonio Cruz 0-1-1
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic W KO 3 0
1975-11-06 Ramon Bido 0-0-0
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic W KO 1 0
1975-07-14 Ricardo Cardona 7-1-1
Caracas, Venezuela L TKO 8 0
1975-05-31 Leslie Moreno 1-0-0
Palaza de Toros Monumental, Maracaibo, Venezuela W KO 3 0
1975-04-12 Victor Pacheco 2-0-0
Cartagena, Colombia W PTS 6 6
1975-02-03 Raul Garcia 0-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 4 0
1974-12-21 Ramon Salazar 0-0-0
Polideportivo Heres, Ciudad Bolivar, Venezuela L KO 2 0
1974-09-20 Jose Salbaran 0-0-0
Valencia, Venezuela W PTS 4 4
1974-07-13 Oscar Arnal 2-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela L PTS 4 4

[bennie]

What's your take on Sulaiman, Frankie, given your boy was WBC No. 1 and yet never got a shot?

Bennie


Bennie,

At the time Frankie fought Bazooka Limon, the WBC ratings for the JLWs were, Limon #1, Frankie #2 and Ilefonso Bethelmy #3, Sulaiman order that #1 and #2, Bazooka and Frankie fight with the winner fighting #3 Bethelmy for the vacated title.

Go figure.

I guess, its who lines his pockets the most.

Go figure, indeed. I was a huge fan of the super-feathers (jr lights) around that time, given Arguello's exploits (what a puncher Alexis was, with a jaw to match!) and that Boza was also doing so well at the weight. You know what, I had never even heard of Bethelmy! Where the hell did he come from?
He disappeared as mysteriously as he appeared.

boxer: Idelfonso Bethelmy
Global ID 53263
sex male
division super featherweight
nationality Venezuela
residence
won 21 (KO 16) + lost 5 (KO 3) + drawn 3 = 29
rounds boxed 173 : KO% 55.17
biography




bouts
Lb St Kg date print

date Lb opponent Lb W - L - D last 6 location
1981-11-25 Felix Mendez 12-3-2
Caracas, Venezuela D PTS 10 10
1980-12-11 129¼ Rafael Limon 129¼ 46-10-2
Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles, California, United States L TKO 15 15
~ time: 1:21 | referee: Larry Rozadilla | judge: Lou Filippo 129-136 | judge: Jorge L. Velasco 129-137 | judge: Carlos R. Cartaya 135-136 ~
~ vacant WBC super featherweight title ~

1980-07-28 Costeno Mendoza 0-0-0
Nuevo Circo, Caracas, Venezuela W PTS 10 10
1980-07-14 Benito Jimenez 5-8-2
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 2 0
1980-02-11 Francisco Aponte 0-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 1 0
1979-12-21 Leonel Hernandez 43-6-1
Caracas, Venezuela W PTS 12 12
~ WBC FECARBOX super featherweight title ~

1979-03-25 Kioshi Takano 0-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 2 0
1978-06-25 Ezequiel Cocoa Sanchez 26-7-1
Caracas, Venezuela D PTS 12 12
~ WBC FECARBOX super featherweight title ~

1978-05-28 Lorenzo Torres 1-8-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 6 0
1978-03-12 Wilson Mosquera 0-1-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 6 0
1977-12-18 Wilson Mosquera 0-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 5 0
1977-12-04 Pedro Garcia 0-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 2 0
1977-06-19 Mario Martinez 0-3-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 9 12
~ WBC FECARBOX super featherweight title ~

1977-05-29 Rafael Solis 8-0-1
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 1 0
1977-03-30 Enrique Maxwell 13-6-2
Caracas, Venezuela W PTS 10 10
1976-12-19 Jorge Villarino 2-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 4 0
1976-12-05 Adalberto Gomez 1-7-1
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 2 0
1976-11-07 Raul Garcia 0-2-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 9 0
1976-02-28 Jose Cervantes 10-2-1
Caracas, Venezuela D PTS 10 10
1975-12-22 Leonardo Cruz 22-2-2
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic L PTS 10 10
1975-11-17 Antonio Cruz 0-1-1
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic W KO 3 0
1975-11-06 Ramon Bido 0-0-0
Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic W KO 1 0
1975-07-14 Ricardo Cardona 7-1-1
Caracas, Venezuela L TKO 8 0
1975-05-31 Leslie Moreno 1-0-0
Palaza de Toros Monumental, Maracaibo, Venezuela W KO 3 0
1975-04-12 Victor Pacheco 2-0-0
Cartagena, Colombia W PTS 6 6
1975-02-03 Raul Garcia 0-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela W KO 4 0
1974-12-21 Ramon Salazar 0-0-0
Polideportivo Heres, Ciudad Bolivar, Venezuela L KO 2 0
1974-09-20 Jose Salbaran 0-0-0
Valencia, Venezuela W PTS 4 4
1974-07-13 Oscar Arnal 2-0-0
Caracas, Venezuela L PTS 4 4

Pitiful. He got his shot by beating the equally mysterious Leonel Hernandez, who 'earned' a whole handful of world title shots when he didn't deserve one.
Those Venezuelan fighters around that time - think of Hernandez and Ernesto Espana - certainly had 'the connections'.

[kikibalt]

Pitiful. He got his shot by beating the equally mysterious Leonel Hernandez, who 'earned' a whole handful of world title shots when he didn't deserve one.
Those Venezuelan fighters around that time - think of Hernandez and Ernesto Espana - certainly had 'the connections'.

Bennie,

No matter who Espana lost to, he would get the title shot.

[bennie]

Pitiful. He got his shot by beating the equally mysterious Leonel Hernandez, who 'earned' a whole handful of world title shots when he didn't deserve one.
Those Venezuelan fighters around that time - think of Hernandez and Ernesto Espana - certainly had 'the connections'.

Bennie,

No matter who Espana lost to, he would get the title shot.

Didn't he just! His younger brother, incidentally, is Crisanto Espana, who fought out of Ireland, married an Irish girl, and won a world welterweight title genuinely and fairly.
Ernesto, however, cost a lot of better fighters a shot at the big one(s).

[kikibalt]

Jerry Quarry vs Jimmy Ellis

[kikibalt]

"The original Golden Boy"

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvFZvrn70S0
Rafael Herrera vs Ruben Olivares

[dagosd2000]

Uno Mas on Ramos vs. Rojas . . .

Here's one that Mando told me and it's a classic!

A couple of weeks before Mando Ramos and Raul Rojas tangled at the Olympic, Mando threw a birthday party for his baby son, Armando Jr., who was just one-year-old. Naturally, the party wasn't really for the baby, but for Mando and his then wife Stella's friends. Mando hired a very popular Mexican band and had the event catered. Rojas had been talking a lot of trash about his former stablemate, and Mando was doing his best to stay clean & sober. To avoid temptation, he invited his manager Jackie McCoy and his wife Shirley, to attend the party.

Everybody was having a good time until McCoy tapped Mando on the shoulder and informed him that Raul Rojas had just walked thru the front door. "What's he doing here, did you invite him?", McCoy asked. Ramos was surprised to see his former stablemate and next opponent show up, uninvited, but being the gracious host that he was, Mando greeted Raul at the door and invited him to have a good time.

Rojas asked Mando if they could have a few words alone, and the two walked into another room to talk.

"Listen", Rojas said, "I want to to tell you old friend, this will be my last fight. I have no desire to box anymore and the only reason I'm going thru with it is for the money. I haven't trained one day and plan to make it look good for a round or two, and then lay down. Would you please do me a favor, just for old times sake, and take it easy on me? I know I'm too old to beat you, but don't want to be humiliated. Could we let the past be the past and be friends again?"

Mando put his arms around Rojas and gave him a big hug, promising to go light on him, and also encouraged Raul to stay and enjoy the party. Rojas declined, saying he just wanted to bury the hatchet and give Mando Jr. a present, handing Mando a gift wrapped toy for the little boy. A few minutes later, Raul Rojas left left the party.

When Mando returned to the party, Jackie McCoy asked, "What did he want?" Mando answered, "Nothing, he just wanted to say, 'may the best man win'." A short while later, a suspicious McCoy and his wife left the party, and the moment he did, Mando cracked open a bottle of beer and fired up a joint. Now the party was on, Mando was now a passenger on the "no stress express", confident he needn't worry about his conditioning any longer.

"I didn't show up in the gym for a week, just had fun", Mando told me. When Ramos finally surfaced from a week of drinking and drugging, he showed up at the gym and was greeted by a furious McCoy. "Where in the Hell you been? Your going to get killed, Raul is in the best condition of his life, word is he's knocking out his sparring partners!"

With less than a week remaining before the match, Mando started to run again, and tried to make-up for the time lost, but by fight night, he was far from peak condition. Luckily, Mando's tremendous skill and punching power would prevail. After the match, Mando encountered Rojas in the dressing room, "Why did you tell me you weren't training, what was that about?", he asked.

Rojas just shook his head and answered, "F___ You, asshole!", then walked away.


-Rick Farris

Great Story Rick

[dagosd2000]

Jake LaMotta & Brother Joey LaMotta
Gleason's Gym, New York City
June, 1950

Joey LaMotta was a pro fighter like his brother Jake. My father told me that Joey gave up boxing so he could train his brother. In the movie Raging Bull there is no mention of this and to top it off Joey(played by Joe Pesci)is alluded as being a bit of a wimp. Even Jake(DeNiro)calls him a ¨little fag ¨in the beginnig of the film.

This film won great critical acclaim,but not from Joey LaMotta. He felt that he was wrongly depicted and had a law suit against the producers of the movie. Something like 50 grand. By now we all know about Jake,but outside the boxing world every one thinks Joey LaMotta was the Joe Pesci character in that movie, I want to help set the record straight about Jake´s bro.

[dagosd2000]

¨Now he doesn´t come home at night. ¨
Jibaro´s wife was breast feeding the baby with a blanket draped over her front.
¨Can´t you talk to hi^m?*¨
I remember when he was dating her. She was shy and pretty and fell for him hard. Her father was training him and also was on the managing end.
¨I´ll try,but what has your father said? ¨
¨He´s dying over this. He´s like a son to him. ¨
On the way up Jibaro was in the gym everyday. His wife announced that she was pregnant and everything seemed bright ahead . Jibaro won the title at the Auditorium in Tijuana and became the toast of the town. A good looking kid. Tall and dark. Full head of hair and a smile and personality that was irresistable. But almost immediately you could feel something going on. He celebrated all night and let his wife and father in law go back home without him. I looked at Jibaro´s wifw. She had gained weight from having the baby and the stress of it all was on her face. There was nothing romantic about the situation. It was gone.
¨You know,¨I said,¨He only listens to people that give him the wrong advice.¨
¨If he would only come home. I know if he sees the baby things will get better.¨
The baby was finished eating and was asleep. She wrapped the baby in the blanket and was rocking him slowly.
¨My brother wants to kill him. I´m worried.¨
¨Don´t believe that. Your brother wouldn´t want to leave his nephew without a father.¨
¨He told me that he would make a better father.¨
¨I´ll talk to Jibaro when he comes to the gym. I promise.¨
¨After he won the title we have less money than before.¨
Jibaro´s wife began to cry. Her mother came into the room and took the baby fom the mother´s arms.
¨Con permiso,¨she said. She took the baby,who was asleep into the living room.
^I thought after winning the championship we would have no more worries.¨
Jibaro´s wife stopped crying. It was like she couldn´t cry anymore.
¨It often happens that way,^
¨What way do you mean?¨she asked wiping her face.
¨You can have what seems like everything and have nothing at all.¨
¨I don´t understand still,^she said. She got up and started to walk to the living room.
¨Well,¨I said,¨If he comes to the gym I´ll try to talk to him tomorrow.
¨

[kikibalt]

Sugar Ray Robinson vs Carl "Bobo" Olson
Wrigley Field, Los Angeles, Ca.

[kikibalt]

Sugar Ray Robinson vs Paul Pender
Boston, 23 January 1960

[Rick Farris]

Jerry Quarry vs Jimmy Ellis

As the boxing world knows, Jerrry Quarry had some great wins, but also some losses that didn't make sense. This was one of them, and Jerry's manager Johnny Flores was never more upset than after Jerry embarrassed himself against an opponet he was favored to beat, and should have. Jerry would have never, under any cuircumstances, beaten Ali or Frazier, however, Ellis was made to order for him. This was the final of an eight-man heavyweight elimination to find a successor to Muhammed Ali for the WBA Heavyweight title (after Ali was stripped of the title). In the eliminations, Quarry had decsioned Floyd Patterson, upset Thad Spencer with a KO win, and finally matched with Ali's former sparring partner for the title. He was 23-years-old, stubbornly decided to attempt out boxing a guy by fighting his opponents fight, and then after the losing decision was announced, grabbed the mike from the ring announcer and announced to the world, "I'm retiring from boxing!" I have always been a fan of Jerry's, but I also know the flip side of the best white heavyweight to step into a ring since Rocky Marciano. Jerry always found a way to lose the important fights. Jerry's problem wasn't his punching power, boxing ability, ruggedness or popularity . . . it was his head. Jerry Quarry was a "head case".

R.I.P Jerry, you gave your fans a lot of good times, and a lot of headaches too.

-Rick

[kikibalt]

Sugar Ray Robinson vs Wif Greves
Detroit, 25 September 1961

[Robinson]

Great photos of Quarry vs Ellis. I doubt there was a
Quarry fight that I have seen that I did not enjoy watching...
I can say this having never seen his last few....

[kikibalt]

Ezzard Charles vs Lee Oma
12 November 1951

[kikibalt]

Willie Pep vs Chalky Wright.II
29 September 1944, Madison Square Garden

[kikibalt]

Henry Armstrong vs Lew Jenkins
Polo Grounds, New York
17 July 1940

[Robinson]

I love your photo's mate.

[kikibalt]

I love your photo's mate.

Thanks Robby.

[Rick Farris]

I love your photo's mate.

Ditto! To me, it's a true gift. Thank you, Kiki.

-Rick

[kikibalt]

Tony DeMarco vs Carmen Basilio
World Welterweight Championship
War Memorial Auditorium, Syracuse, New York
10 June 1955

[Rick Farris]

Willie Pep vs Chalky Wright.II
29 September 1944, Madison Square Garden

I love Willie Pep, although I never had a chance to see him live. He was amazing. The closest thing I saw in L.A. was little Albert Davila. I really can't compare the two, but "Tweedy" was a thing of beauty to watch perform, even in the Jr. Golden Gloves, where he gave boxing lessons to those who stepped inside the ropes with him. Frank, I know you were responsible for matching Davila with most of his amateur opposition in L.A. Any special memories?

-Ricardo