ALL-TIME ARGENTINIAN BOXING RATINGS

[BoxBuzz]

Monzon edges out both Perez and Locche in my opinion. But the list is pretty solid. For me it's hard to exclude Galindez but these are very subjective as we know.

[giacomino]

Martin: I grew up following the careers of Laciar, whom I think was underrated, Palma Castro, Coggi, Carlos Salazar and Vasquez when he was knocking people cold as a jr. middleweight. I also enjoyed watching Ublando Sacco, whom I think could have been a star if he hadn't had personal problems. So how do you rate Omar Narvaez? I know it's not in fashion to say anything positive about him. While he doesn't deserve to be mentioned with Monzon in terms of title defenses, he seems to have the talent to beat just about any flyweight around and he's shown the willingness to defend overseas. Would love to see him fight Donaire in the US or go to Japan to fight Sakata or Naito.

[Martin Sosa Cameron]

Monzon edges out both Perez and Locche in my opinion. But the list is pretty solid. For me it's hard to exclude Galindez but these are very subjective as we know.

Hi, BoxBuzz!

You're right, but when there are only ten, there are a lot of greatest out of that; who is the number 11? I wants a lot: Gregorio Peralta, Oscar Bonavena, Victor Galindez, Jorge Ahumada, Rafael Merentino, Luis Rodriguez, Federico Thompson, Raul Landini, Alfredo Prada, Jose Gatica, Luis Rayo, Ernesto Miranda, Santos Laciar, Gustavo Ballas and many more

Thanks!





Please, see

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w ... meron.html

http://amatoboxingsite.multiply.com/jou ... S._Cameron

[Martin Sosa Cameron]

Martin: I grew up following the careers of Laciar, whom I think was underrated, Palma Castro, Coggi, Carlos Salazar and Vasquez when he was knocking people cold as a jr. middleweight. I also enjoyed watching Ublando Sacco, whom I think could have been a star if he hadn't had personal problems. So how do you rate Omar Narvaez? I know it's not in fashion to say anything positive about him. While he doesn't deserve to be mentioned with Monzon in terms of title defenses, he seems to have the talent to beat just about any flyweight around and he's shown the willingness to defend overseas. Would love to see him fight Donaire in the US or go to Japan to fight Sakata or Naito.

Hi, Giacomino!

Thanks you; all the boys you mentioned are very good, but in the long and rich trajectory of the Argentinian boxing, to choose only the best ten isn't easy or joyful. Ubaldo Sacco could be better, as his father (a Middleweight) too. Narvaez is another good fighter, but he is far, so far of any other Argentinian Flyweights. Monzon had a true World Title: undisputed, but Narvaez only had a 25% of the World Flyweight Title, divided between the WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO (it's unacceptable this dispersal)

Please, see this

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w ... meron.html

http://amatoboxingsite.multiply.com/jou ... S._Cameron

[granberry]

Martin

That's very interesting what you say about Robinson and Fullmer ducking Eduardo Lausse. I had never really examined his record before, but obviously he was a world class fighter. In 1955 he beat Ralph Jones, Kid Gavilan and Gene Fullmer, AND even decked Fullmer.

Can you post a photo of Lausse ?

Seamus,

Here is a photo of two greatest Argentinian Middleweights, Rafael Merentino (left) and Eduardo Lausse (right), both supermasters of the K.O.; between the Middles of All Time in Argentina, the #1 is Carlos Monzon, and 2# and 3#, this boys; his records

Rafael Merentino http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

Eduardo Lausse http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

Martin,

Fullmer told me he considered Lausse very good.


Do you remember when Galindez was stopped by Mike Rossman, who was really more of a middleweight than a lightheavy?

Here is how that happened:

Before the fight Rossman was sparring with Jerry Martin, the best infighter in the world at that time.

In their sparring Martin was chewing Rossman up, but then he showed Rossman various tricks about infighting and getting leverage for short punches while fighting with your back on the ropes.

When Rossman got the title chance against Galindez, Galindez decided to switch his more recent fighting style. In his title defenses just before that Galindez had fought like a ‘defending champion’, fighting in a more laid back style and making the challenger bring the fight to him in an attempt to take the title.

But against Rossman, Galindez switched from that and came right at Rossman, who he obviously considered a punk. But it was Galindez who got chewed up and lost his title , getting stopped by Rossman.

When Galindez bulled Rossman backwards into the ropes, it was Galindez who got chopped to pieces as Rossman used the techniques Jerry Martin had just taught him. Galindez was stopped by a kid who was not even a genuine lightheavyweight.

In their return fight Rossman abandoned everything he had done right in their first fight, and Galindez fought a smarter fight, stopping Rossman and winning back the title.

When Galindez lost to Marvin Johnson later, Ralph Palladin made a very interesting comment to me. [Marvin Johnson stopped Galindez, knocking him out cold].

Palladin pointed out that while Galindez was known as a bull and a body puncher, Galindez himself was vulnerable to a good body attack, that was how Marvin Johnson beat him.

[Martin Sosa Cameron]

Granberry,

Very interesting facts, thanks! Palladin was a good fighter, too

[My2Sense]

The only who I'm sure the World Champion (Ray Robinson, Carl Bobo Olson, Gene Fullmer) don't wants to fight was Eduardo Lausse; all they eluded him (Fullmer was beaten by Lausse a year preview to win the World Title).

Well, that isn't entirely accurate. Lausse's stock dropped a bit in his next two fights after Fullmer (a draw with journeyman Milo Savage and a loss to Bobby Boyd), after which he headed back to Argentina and was not seen again on the world stage for several years.


BTW Martin, are you familiar with Lausse's two fights with Kid Gavilan? Are there any details you could post about them (particularly the first)?

[granberry]

Granberry,

Very interesting facts, thanks! Palladin was a good fighter, too

Martin,

Ralph Palladin beat Rodrigo Valdez in a fight in Madison Square Garden in 1970.

Palladin was paid $900 for that fight.

From that point on Valdez didn't lose a fight for a number of years.

There is a film of that fight.

Palladin was superior to Valdez in every way.
He actually outfought Valdez in close.
He was also much faster from long range.

When he beat Valdez, Palladin's record was 17-0 and it looked like he was going places.

But then in his very next bout Palladin got cut up badly in a fight with butter Matt Donovan and that was the end of his career as a serious contender, since from that time on he was very vulnerable to cuts.

Palladin beat Angel Robinson Garcia on a ten round decision in a fight in Baltimore in 1977.

[Arbachakov]

I have palladin's fight with Ayub Kalule.

he was a good fighter for sure, but the technically gifted Kalule gives him a one-sided pasting.Kalule was frozen out of the middleweight scene and had to drop down to 154 to get a shot.A weight he was totally uncomfortable at.

[Martin Sosa Cameron]

The only who I'm sure the World Champion (Ray Robinson, Carl Bobo Olson, Gene Fullmer) don't wants to fight was Eduardo Lausse; all they eluded him (Fullmer was beaten by Lausse a year preview to win the World Title).

Well, that isn't entirely accurate. Lausse's stock dropped a bit in his next two fights after Fullmer (a draw with journeyman Milo Savage and a loss to Bobby Boyd), after which he headed back to Argentina and was not seen again on the world stage for several years.


BTW Martin, are you familiar with Lausse's two fights with Kid Gavilan? Are there any details you could post about them (particularly the first)?

Hi, My2Sense!

All I remember of this fights is that each boxer, Gavilán and Lausse win very well each bout. Of their fights in Argentina, in his match against Mario Díaz, one judge vote for a draw and two for Gavilán. The most exciting was Gavilán vs Rafael Merentino: Gavilán was groggy in two rounds; after the fight, Gavilán, who win by TKO, said: "There is not in the world another middleweight who had most punch than Merentino, he is the most powerful"

[kikibalt]

Jorge Oscar Ramos
Alias-Cucuzza

[Martin Sosa Cameron]

Hi, Kikibalt!

You're right! Cucuzza fought many times in the West Coast

[kikibalt]

Hi, Kikibalt!

You're right! Cucuzza fought many times in the West Coast

Yeah! he fought my son Frankie in his last fight.

[kikibalt]

Frankie Baltazar vs Jorge Ramos
Frankie by ko, 1th rd.

[Martin Sosa Cameron]

Kiki and Frankie,

[granberry]

I have palladin's fight with Ayub Kalule.

he was a good fighter for sure, but the technically gifted Kalule gives him a one-sided pasting.Kalule was frozen out of the middleweight scene and had to drop down to 154 to get a shot.A weight he was totally uncomfortable at.

Little do you know, Arbachetc.

Palladin was working fulltime in construction and was semi-retired at the time.

He went to Finley's gym once or maybe twice a week at this end stage of his boxing career, tired after his day's work.

He told me he didn't feel like it after a day's hard work, "But when I go and work out I always feel better afterwards."

Palladin considered himself past his serious career, but if he could get a decent paying European fight he took it.

Before Leonard fought Kalule, I commented that maybe Leonard would have trouble with Kaulule because Kalule was heavier than Leonard and would be stronger.

Palladin said, "No. I fought Kalaule in Europe and he is a physically weak fighter."

Kalule could never have stayed in there with Rodrigo Valdez, much less beaten Valdez as Palladin did.

Palladin outmuscled Valdez in close.

I learned a lot from talking to Palladin, from his comments on fights we had both just seen.
Such as his comment on the Marvin Johnson-Galindez fight I quoted earlier on this thread.

Palladin had extreme disgust and contempt for the boxing "promoters" he dealt with.

If you are really interested in Ralph Palladin, get the film of his fight with Rodrigo Valdez, when Palladin was at his best.

He was very strong, rugged, and extremely fast at getting in suddenly from long range.
He had a funny right hand lead that he would land suddenly, stepping in from what appeared to be a couple steps away. It was an original punch I never saw anyone else throw.

[Arbachakov]

Ralph wouldn't have been able to tell you anything about Kalule's strength.

There were no clinches or infighting at all and he barely landed a punch.It was not a physical contest in the slightest.

I can believe you he was washed up.

Kalule was badly weightdrained against Leonard.No doubt a reason why the fight was made.

[granberry]

Ralph wouldn't have been able to tell you anything about Kalule's strength.

There were no clinches or infighting at all and he barely landed a punch.It was not a physical contest in the slightest.

I can believe you he was washed up.

Kalule was badly weightdrained against Leonard.No doubt a reason why the fight was made.

You are filled with spite, aren't you, Arbach.

Palladin wouldn't take the time to spit on someone with your ignorance of the topic.

[Seamus]

Martin

Where do you rate Coggi and Palma ? Top 20 ?

[Martin Sosa Cameron]

Martin

Where do you rate Coggi and Palma ? Top 20 ?

Hi, Seamus!

I thinks ten fighters aren't much, may be 30 or 50 for a good list, and, of course, it included Palma and Coggi. I put this before:

Hi, BoxBuzz!
You're right, but when there are only ten, there are a lot of greatest out of that; who is the number 11? I wants a lot: Gregorio Peralta, Oscar Bonavena, Victor Galindez, Jorge Ahumada, Rafael Merentino, Luis Rodriguez, Federico Thompson, Raul Landini, Alfredo Prada, Jose Gatica, Luis Rayo, Ernesto Miranda, Santos Laciar, Gustavo Ballas and many more (Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:37 pm)

Thanks Seamus for your opportune question: I must to do a longer list