Frazier's pain and anger still remains...

[BoxBuzz]

You got it wrong gran. No one is "my crew"....you and I have had differing viewpoints and you target me needlessly. Except when you actually break the rules I take no action against you. I tend to attempt to enforce the rules equally across the board and yeah I've had a laugh or two at your reactions perhaps at your expense. If your willing to let it go I sure am. I've noticed we agree on a few things.

We'll see how that goes I guess.

[granberry]

I tend to attempt to enforce the rules equally across the board

You LIE, buzz.

You lie through your teeth.

My Peter Maher, Basilio-DeMarco, and Billy Bello-Bernard Mays threads are proof of that.

[BoxBuzz]

Sorry you feel that way pal. But I've learned one thing about you gran, you are on occasion wrong...but you are never in doubt.

[raylawpc]

WHY ARE THESE MEN CRYING ?

.

ANSWER :

HA HA HA HA HA HA...THIS GRANBERRY IS SOMETHING.

Fellas, I think the top picture is Ali and Bundini after the first Norton fight, not the first Frazier fight.

[p4p1]

Nah....the ticket is to enjoy the posts you like, ignore the posts that bug you, don't make a big deal out of differing opinions and maybe even learn to enjoy a different viewpoint. That's the ticket.

You LIE buzz.

Your track record shows you enlist collins, ebenezer, irene etc etc etc

to trash any thread I start

and then join in yourself gleefully.

Anyone can take a look at my Peter Maher thread and my Basilio-DeMarco thread and my Billy Bello-Bernard Mays thread

and see that every thread I start is immediately trashed by your crew.

Donnellon hasn't posted on boxrec since your boy collins trashed my Peter Maher thread with his homosexual fixation.

TRASH boxrec. That the ticket, isn't it buzz.

And all with the phony handle of "moderator."

LOL

haha your off your rocker

[p4p1]

the top picture is after the norton fight

[Collins2000]

Hey gran! man am I ever glad to hear from you again. When you get quiet for more than a day we worry about your health.
so what's your take on all of this? Anybody here got it right today?

Hey buzz, the 'moderator."

Do you have your stooges collins, ebeneezer, etc etc etc

all lined up to trash the next thread I start on Peter Maher
or Basilio-DeMarco?

TRASH anything that appears on boxrec except threads that sell, sell, sell Ali.

That's the ticket, isn't it, "moderator" buzz.

Terap, please start another Peter Maher thread.

The last one was hilarious.

This time though when googling for your info, try to pick a photo that really is Maher.

And when a real historian corrects all your factual errors again, please don't get offended and start crying for Buzz to lock the thread like last time.

[observer1]

Frazier should forgive Ali now. Ali may have been harsh, but, like other boxers, he was just selling the fight. Ali is aware now that at the time Frazier may have taken it too hard, therefore actually asked the guy to forgive him, what other boxer would do that?

[yancey]

I dont' know why the hell Joe is bitching, he isn't the one with severe Parkinsons...

He thinks he gave Ali the Parkinson's Disease... An impartial observer would say it was cumulative....

Joe calls Ali's disease "Frazieritis."

I do think the shots that Ali took from Frazier in their three fights are the major factor in his condition today.

Both men should have retired after Manila.

In fact, Frazier should have retired after the FOTC.

Hope both fellows are finding some everyday joy in their lives.

[yancey]

Been away for a while, and have skimmed through this thread, but I have to say that the notion someone expressed that Frazier fought a 60-70% Ali to be absolutely absurd.

Ali was no fool. He knew the FOTC was going to be the biggest event in his career and very possibly boxing history.

He was ready.

In fact, he fought a great fight that night just to go the distance with Frazier.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

I dont' know why the hell Joe is bitching, he isn't the one with severe Parkinsons...

He thinks he gave Ali the Parkinson's Disease... An impartial observer would say it was cumulative....

Joe calls Ali's disease "Frazieritis."

I do think the shots that Ali took from Frazier were a major factor in his condition today.

Hope both fellows are finding some everyday joy in their lives.

Look at the punishment he took post Manilla...We'll ignore Young , Evangelista, and Spinks because they couldn't hit but Norton and Shavers could bang...Then you have Ali being used as Larry Holmes ' punching bag in Vegas and then a tough fight at 40 where he took some big shots from Trevor Berbick...

Who knows?

[yancey]

Holmes held back in the Ali debacle, to his credit.

Can't be proven, but I suspect the relentless, attrition style punching of Frazier really did major damage to Ali.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Holmes held back in the Ali debacle, to his credit.

Can't be proven, but I suspect the relentless, attrition style punching of Frazier really did major damage to Ali.

You're obviously a big Frazier fan...Where do you have him ranked among heavies...I have him ranked seven or eight...

[yancey]

Holmes held back in the Ali debacle, to his credit.

Can't be proven, but I suspect the relentless, attrition style punching of Frazier really did major damage to Ali.

You're obviously a big Frazier fan...Where do you have him ranked among heavies...I have him ranked seven or eight...

4 or 5, depending on my mood. Unlike most, I give absolute peak Frazier of 69-70 a live chance of surviving the first few rounds with Foreman and then taking him out in around 9 or 10 rounds. That is, if the referee controls the pushing off by Foreman. Peak Frazier has a real shot with anyone. He was as close to a pure warrior as I've seen in boxing.

Of course, after a beer or three or five, he becomes numero uno.

He was a great fighter, and swarmers like him are apt to have short peaks.

He clearly went downhill and lost his edge after the FOTC. I knew his skills had eroded in the nationally televised fight with Ron Stander, his fight before Foreman.

Remarkable what he accomplished given his eye trouble and blood pressure problems.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Holmes held back in the Ali debacle, to his credit.

Can't be proven, but I suspect the relentless, attrition style punching of Frazier really did major damage to Ali.

You're obviously a big Frazier fan...Where do you have him ranked among heavies...I have him ranked seven or eight...

4 or 5, depending on my mood. Unlike most, I give absolute peak Frazier of 69-70 a live chance of surviving the first few rounds with Foreman and then taking him out in around 9 or 10 rounds. That is, if the referee controls the pushing off by Foreman. Peak Frazier has a real shot with anyone. He was as close to a pure warrior as I've seen in boxing.

Of course, after a beer or three or five, he becomes numero uno.

He was a great fighter, and swarmers like him are apt to have short peaks.

He clearly went downhill and lost his edge after the FOTC. I knew his skills had eroded in the nationally televised fight with Ron Stander, his fight before Foreman.

Remarkable what he accomplished given his eye trouble and blood pressure problems.

Like I sad I have Joe seven or eight...I like and respect Joe...He's my best friend's favorite fighter and my friend has met him...They say styles make fights...I don't think Ken Norton or Joe Frazier can ever beat Big George but both Ken Norton and Joe Frazier will always give Ali trouble...

[elmersalsa]

Holmes held back in the Ali debacle, to his credit.

Can't be proven, but I suspect the relentless, attrition style punching of Frazier really did major damage to Ali.

You're obviously a big Frazier fan...Where do you have him ranked among heavies...I have him ranked seven or eight...

4 or 5, depending on my mood. Unlike most, I give absolute peak Frazier of 69-70 a live chance of surviving the first few rounds with Foreman and then taking him out in around 9 or 10 rounds. That is, if the referee controls the pushing off by Foreman. Peak Frazier has a real shot with anyone. He was as close to a pure warrior as I've seen in boxing.

Of course, after a beer or three or five, he becomes numero uno.

He was a great fighter, and swarmers like him are apt to have short peaks.

He clearly went downhill and lost his edge after the FOTC. I knew his skills had eroded in the nationally televised fight with Ron Stander, his fight before Foreman.

Remarkable what he accomplished given his eye trouble and blood pressure problems.

I agree with you 100%.

[elmersalsa]

Nobody would like to be called an "Uncle Tom" or "Gorilla"...especially if you are a Black man.

[granberry]

Nobody would like to be called an "Uncle Tom" or "Gorilla"...especially if you are a Black man.

Ali fans will explain to you that Joe Frazier had a lot of nerve not to like that.

[I Feel Fine]

For 10.1 million dollars, Ali can call me anything he wants. Frazier wasn't a victim, guys. But was Ali wrong to call him those things? Yes.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Muhammad Ali crossed the line with Joe Frazier and asked for forgiveness... That's all he can do...If Frazier refuses to forgive him that's Joe problems...

[yancey]

There is one other thing that disturbed me in Ali's treatment of Frazier. Right after the FOTC, Ali acknowledged Joe as having won the fight fair and square. He admitted he knew the fight was a lost cause when he went down in the 15th.

Within two to three weeks after the fight, however, with Joe being in the hospital, Ali reversed position and mounted a media campaign where he said he won the fight and it had been stolen from him. Of course, Ali was an icon to many and a media star, and within 3 to 4 months after the fight, with Ali's spin aided and abetted by the media, many people seemed to be convinced that Ali indeed won the fight.

I remember talking to quite a few people in the year or so after the FOTC, and most of them seemed to be convinced that "The Man" had stolen the decision from Ali.

Not fair to Frazier, but that's life, I guess.

[granberry]

There is one other thing that disturbed me in Ali's treatment of Frazier. Right after the FOTC, Ali acknowledged Joe as having won the fight fair and square. He admitted he knew the fight was a lost cause when he went down in the 15th.

Within two to three weeks after the fight, however, with Joe being in the hospital, Ali reversed position and mounted a media campaign where he said he won the fight and it had been stolen from him. Of course, Ali was an icon to many and a media star, and within 3 to 4 months after the fight, with Ali's spin aided and abetted by the media, many people seemed to be convinced that Ali indeed won the fight.

I remember talking to quite a few people in the year or so after the FOTC, and most of them seemed to be convinced that "The Man" had stolen the decision from Ali.

Not fair to Frazier, but that's life, I guess.

Ali began to portray Frazier as an Uncle Tom, a pawn of the white establishment. . .
"I know what's going to happen the night before the fight," Ali said (New York Post, Jan. 15, 1971.). "That Joe Frazier, he's gonna get telephone calls from folks in Georgia and Alabama and Mississippi saying, 'Joe Frazier, you be a white man tonight and stop that draft-dodging n-----.' "

Ali delivered the line with a laugh and rolled his eyes, but, by attacking Frazier's legitimacy as an advocate for his own race, he demeaned his opponent, and he did it over and over again, like a candidate who found his stump speech.
. . .
Pacheco urged Ali to let the issue go. "You do not need to do this," Pacheco told him. "He's a black man like you are." Ali understood, but told Pacheco: "I like to get under his skin." Writer Dave Kindred believes that Ali's fears prompted the Uncle Tom references. "I think Frazier scared Ali more than anybody ever," Kindred said, "and that was why he was so mean, so contemptible in the things he said about him. Ali's moments of panic came out as mean-spirited stuff always when he was most afraid." Veteran columnists such as Dick Young and Jimmy Cannon, always wary of Ali, criticized his treatment of Frazier while the younger members of the pack gave him a pass. "He was such good entertainment and gave them such good quotes," explained Thomas Hauser.

Joe Frazier did not give Ali a pass, then or ever. He rightly pointed out the hypocrisy of being labeled an Uncle Tom by a black man whose trainer was white. In his autobiography, Frazier called it a "cynical attempt by Clay to make me feel isolated from my own people. He thought that would weaken me when it came time to face him in that ring. Well, he was wrong. It didn't weaken me, it awakened me to what a cheap-shot son of a bitch he was."


http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=m ... &type=lgns

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Ali has apologized ad infinitum and ad nauseum...There is no more he can do...

[elmersalsa]

Muhammad Ali crossed the line with Joe Frazier and asked for forgiveness... That's all he can do...If Frazier refuses to forgive him that's Joe problems...

The PROBLEM is that Ali has never apologized.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Muhammad Ali crossed the line with Joe Frazier and asked for forgiveness... That's all he can do...If Frazier refuses to forgive him that's Joe problems...

The PROBLEM is that Ali has never apologized.

On the recent anniversary of Frazier's victory over Ali, Frazier said, "Hey man, just come on and give me a hug and let's get on with our lives."


Ali was recently in New York to accept the Humanitarian Award of United Cerebral Palsy of New York City and he told the New York Times he agrees with Frazier.

"In a way, Joe's right. I said a lot of things in the heat of the moment that I shouldn't have said. Called him names I shouldn't have called him. I apologize for that. I'm sorry. It was all meant to promote the fight."

Frazier embraced the apology. "I accept that," he said in a telephone interview with the Times from Wildwood, NJ. "I'll accept it, shake his hand and hug him when I see him. This has been going on too long.... Life's too short."


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_72960912