How many times do promoters get it badly wrong?

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 29 Mar 2004, 10:43

Unbeaten Brazilian banger Kelson Pinto takes on unbeaten Ricky Hatton this Saturday in a fight that could blow up in The Hit Man's face (and promoter allegedly's). But how many times do the promoters get it wrong?
I well remember the infamous night at Wembley in 1984 when Frank Bruno and Mark Kaylor got bumped off by Bonecrusher Smith and Buster Drayton respectively. Harry Mullan, who hated the Cartel with a passion, was in a fabulous mood for weeks. To this day, I don't know how Mullan prevented himself from doing an Irish jig as big Frank was taking the count. It was a rare mistake from the sickeningly-cautious Duff and Lawless.
allegedly has made more mistakes in my opinion. The Montero fight with Keith Wallace, which I mentioned on another thread, was obviously one of those mistakes. It killed a potential classic showdown between Wallace and Charlie Magri.
Another that sticks in the mind, was the night Warren matched Derek Angol with Tyrone Booze and Pat "See you in three years" Barrett with Manning Galloway for WBO titles. Both Angol and Barrett had just ditched Mickey Duff for Warren and were immediately rewarded with those dubious title cracks. And both got licked.
I also remember Leicester boys Chris Pyatt and Tony Sibson getting virtually outclassed in cracks at a world title under Warren (Pyatt by John David Jackson and Sibbo when he stepped up ambitiously against Dennis Andries).
Any more examples?

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 29 Mar 2004, 11:12

bennie wrote:I also remember Leicester boys Chris Pyatt and Tony Sibson getting virtually outclassed in cracks at a world title under Warren (Pyatt by John David Jackson and Sibbo when he stepped up ambitiously against Dennis Andries).

No shame here - the promoter's job was to provide his charges with opportunities on the world stage, against some of the division's best. Which he did here, they just weren't good enough to take them (although Pyatt went on to win the WBO bauble with a commendable decision over Kalumbay as I seem to remember.)

Surely the down fall of 'Spice Boy' Rhodes in the WBO middleweight title tilt should be included - he is still struggling to re-find that early career form.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 29 Mar 2004, 11:22

To be fair, Warren must've known fighters like Sibson, Magri and Colin Jones were in for a hard night when he got them their Last Chance Saloon world title shots - all were near the end of their careers at the time.

One of Duff's biggest clangers was bringing in little know Mexican Juan Diaz to meet his big flyweight hope, Charlie Magri.
The unbeaten Magri was just marking time before an inevitable world title shot. Then was flattened in about 5 rounds.
It was a shocking loss, and I remember it made the back page of The Sun, the next day.

Maloney certainly got it wrong with Medina first time.
A few other miscalculations

Paul Hodgkinson getting blasted out by Gregorio Vargas.
Eammon Loughran stopped in one by J A Lopez

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 29 Mar 2004, 11:23

Have to think a bit

How about James Hare last fight

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 29 Mar 2004, 11:30

Glencoffe Johnson has regularlt left promoters with egg on their shoes...

Toks Owoh
Thomas Ulrich

both hot unbeaten prospects got a beating from Glen.

Not sure how upset Sports Network were, i think they thought Toks was getting too big for his boots and chucked him in with Johnson so he wouldnt keep calling out Calzaghe

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 29 Mar 2004, 11:40

How about Benn against Watson?

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 29 Mar 2004, 12:31

How about when allegedly hacked off the Terry Marsh lookalike?

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 29 Mar 2004, 12:33

knockout wrote:Glencoffe Johnson has regularlt left promoters with egg on their shoes...

Toks Owoh
Thomas Ulrich

both hot unbeaten prospects got a beating from Glen.

Not sure how upset Sports Network were, i think they thought Toks was getting too big for his boots and chucked him in with Johnson so he wouldnt keep calling out Calzaghe

Yeah, good one. Johnson had just lost (fairly) to my mate Ottke when he came over and outclassed Owoh.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 29 Mar 2004, 12:37

James Hare was definately a mistake, matching him with Rivera after a tough but rewarding year was bad matchmaking, the opponent choice was perhaps the worst part of it.

Priff · Post by **Priff** » 29 Mar 2004, 12:37

REAL_DEAL wrote:Have to think a bit

How about James Hare last fight

That was the first one that came to my mind too, mainly bcause of the way Gilmour admitted, "Perhaps it was bad match making";

But it's not just promoters of course. Mosely turned down a 12 million dollar chance at history for a 2 million dollar 1 sided beating from the unfashionable but highly skilled Winky.

I didn't really see the point of the Walker Karmazin fight. It wasn't even a "shot" for Walker. It was just a lamb to the slaughter. It's not as if we were dealing with a South American "unknown" like Pinto (thus allowing the promoter to plead ignorance if it all went tits up), no-one gave Walker a hope. Pointless match making really.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 29 Mar 2004, 12:51

steve689 wrote:James Hare was definately a mistake, matching him with Rivera after a tough but rewarding year was bad matchmaking, the opponent choice was perhaps the worst part of it.

I dunno, Steve, Rivera was just a solid light-welter who, as you say, met a very stale Hare. Had Hare been sharp, I feel he would have easily outboxed the Mexican. Hare had no snap whatsoever.

Loynesy · Post by **Loynesy** » 29 Mar 2004, 12:54

The Kamarzin (spelling?) was a huge mistake for David Walker. I hope he got a great payday for it because it shortened his career.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 29 Mar 2004, 12:57

Carlos Palomino's win over John H. Stracey made me laugh. The Cartel chose the softest looking contender in the WBC top 10 for Stracey, and he turned out to be a future Hall of famer (inducted this June).

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 29 Mar 2004, 15:07

Loynesy wrote:The Kamarzin (spelling?) was a huge mistake for David Walker. I hope he got a great payday for it because it shortened his career.

Disagree, yes it was a mis match but I don't think it shortened his career, McCraken pulled him out too early for that to happen. His war with Vincent (another blunder) was a career shortening fight. I got the distinct impression that team Walker were always going to pull him out before him getting beat up. It reminded me of Benn vs Collins II.

Barnes vs Vincent was an error of judgment (essentially) so was Macklin vs Facey.

Do you think the then relatively unproven Acelino Freitas was brought over to look good compared to Naz (vs Barry Jones) or do you think
Jones' promotional team felt they had a geniune chance.

Also Add Klitchko vs Hide, Wladimir vs Sanders, Wright vs Moseley.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 29 Mar 2004, 17:05

i think its fair to say that britians number one promoter never makes any mistakes whatsoever.

this statement is superbly demonstrated by the quality of michael kizza a relatively unknown african brought in to provide a stern test of the golden gooses comeback. to put your guy in again such a high standard of opposition is never a mistake.

for those of you who missed the fight kizza boxed superbly against arthur, alternating between rounds his style, toe to toe one round pure boxing skills the next. switch hitting, boxing orthodox then southpaw, footwork that left arthur looking bamboozled at times, pacing himself to perfection. truly a boxing pardigm. he certainly pushed arthur to limits he'd never been to before and demonstrated superbly how effective all alexs american training had paid off.

i think we can safely say that after the gomez debacle arthur has answered all his critics by being matched against such an opponent

just the job for the headlining fight. and at 30 quid for the cheapest ticket, those casual fans will be flocking back. well done uncle frank.

Lickszz · Post by **Lickszz** » 29 Mar 2004, 21:41

[quote="MightyWarrior"]To be fair, Warren must've known fighters like Sibson, Magri and Colin Jones were in for a hard night when he got them their Last Chance Saloon world title shots - all were near the end of their careers at the time.

Paul Hodgkinson getting blasted out by Gregorio Vargas.
Eammon Loughran stopped in one by J A Lopez[/quote]

From what I remember Vargas was the mandatory challenger for Hok's WBC belt so couldn't be really avoided.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 30 Mar 2004, 04:48

Lopez was one of the most talented boxers of the 90's.... if he could have sorted is social life out he could have been a long time champion.

he could box, punch and had an iron chin... shame he lacked discipline...

No surprise he blew away Loughran

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 30 Mar 2004, 05:34

Loynesy wrote:The Kamarzin (spelling?) was a huge mistake for David Walker. I hope he got a great payday for it because it shortened his career.

I know what you're saying but sometimes you have to go for it. And yes, his corner we're ready to step in if the beating got too bad. But you never know...Karmazin could have had an off night and then Walker might have capitalized.

I think whatever you do you should aspire to compete at the highest level possible and then at least there are no 'what ifs'. I really hope it hasn't shortened his career.

black panther · Post by **black panther** » 30 Mar 2004, 09:08

wot bugs me is that warren takes the pinto fight so that hatton can get a shot at the WBO title and if he wins it all the elite of the division will have an excuse to avoid him but if hatton had took on paul spadafora like showtime wanted, not only wud he have an easier nites work in my opinion but he wud be on course for a WBC title shot and that means gatti-hatton. If hatton wins the WBO he will never fight the big names

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 30 Mar 2004, 09:23

black panther wrote:wot bugs me is that warren takes the pinto fight so that hatton can get a shot at the WBO title and if he wins it all the elite of the division will have an excuse to avoid him but if hatton had took on paul spadafora like showtime wanted, not only wud he have an easier nites work in my opinion but he wud be on course for a WBC title shot and that means gatti-hatton. If hatton wins the WBO he will never fight the big names

Excellent point. None of the big names are going to want to challenge for WBU and WBO titles (Hatton is also defending his WBU crown on Saturday).

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 30 Mar 2004, 10:00

Duff made a mistake matching John Mugabi with Terry Norris.

Mugabi was meant to blow him away inside four and then move to Middleweight for a fight with Michael Nunn or Roberto Duran.

Look what happened, Mugabi got starched in 1.

Cant see Hatton slipping up here though.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 30 Mar 2004, 10:28

knockout wrote:Lopez was one of the most talented boxers of the 90's.... if he could have sorted is social life out he could have been a long time champion.

he could box, punch and had an iron chin... shame he lacked discipline...

No surprise he blew away Loughran

In hindsight that's very true, Loughran never stood a chance. But it's fair to say the promoter, the crowd and especialy Loughran were pretty shocked at the time!

Lopez could have been one of the best, anyone who can come so close to knocking out the fearsome Ike Quartey, could hold his own with anyone in the world.
De La Hoya never wanted anything to do with Lopez.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 30 Mar 2004, 10:41

How about Burton v Thaxton? Someone really didn't do their homework there, Jono was way out of his depth.

The Duke of Hazzard · Post by **The Duke of Hazzard** » 30 Mar 2004, 11:14

John Davidson against Steve Robinson.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 30 Mar 2004, 11:49

Kilburn wrote:How about Burton v Thaxton? Someone really didn't do their homework there, Jono was way out of his depth.

Good call.
Emmanuel Burton (latterly Augustus) practically stood Thaxton on his head that night. Goes to show losing in good company in the US does not mean you can't fight.

Burton went on to last the full course with PBF and one Kelson Pinto.

How many times do promoters get it badly wrong?

How many times do promoters get it badly wrong?

Re: How many times do promoters get it badly wrong?