Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

"Lenny,you're from New York. What do you think of them tearing down Yankee Stadium?"
I don't know when Lenny came out to San Diego,but he told me it was after his divorce. He opened up a gym. He was the only guy I knew who owned a gym and never worked out. I was standing at the counter and thought I'd get his take on razing The House Thst Ruth Built before starting my workout. Lenny shrugged his shoulders. He was looking at some sort of ledger.
"It was time for that place to go,"Lenny said.
"But that place is a great landmark of baseball history."
"I went there one time and there were no signs. I wound up in Harlem. You think they'd put up some signs."
Lenny said to the new kid he just hired to check the membership cards on the counter to see if any of the membership dates had expired.
"People all the time try to work out with expired memberships. I stay on top of it."
"In Europe they wouldn't think of destroying something like Yankee Stadium. Most of the buildings in those cities are hundreds of years old."
"I could have got killed in Harlem. Where were the street signs?"
"Even in my wife's little town down in Mexico they wouldn't disturb anything with that historical meaning."
Lenny didn't respond. I don't think he heard me. He threw down the ledger and turned to the kid who was the new hire.
"Whar did I tell you about accepting checks?"Lenny yelled at him."Only credit cards that are run through or cash."
"Lenny,did you ever go out to center field to see the monuments of Ruth,Gerhig,and Huggins before the game?"
"I only went once. I got lost. Wound up in Harlem. Imagine,no street signs? How did they figure you'd find the place?"
"Well I'm going to get a workout,"I said.
A guy came in ,signed the register, and put his membership card in the slot.
"Mister,where's your towel. You need a towel to go in. To wipe the sweat of the equipment after you use it."
The guy said he forgot to bring a towel.
"You can have one for 50 cents. That's a gym rule."
The guy paid the 50 cents.
"Be sure you return it when you're done."
Lenny started to walk back to the office. I heard him say to the new kid to make sure everyone who came in had a towel. He looked back at me.
"Yeah,it was time for that place to go."

[bennie]

Can nobody tell me anything about Saxton? How good was he?

[kikibalt]

Hereeeeeee's Johnny





Johnny Saxton

[dagosd2000]

Mando Ramos

This was taken last year at the WBHOF banquet, when Dan Hanley & I interviewed Mando.

Rick

Mando actually looks a bit like Duran in this shot.

When Duran was riding the crest of the wave ,he was the light weight champ, seemed invincible,I remember a reporter found him in a posh restaurant in Manhattan at a table with a beautifull woman.Everything was planned that way,though it was meant to look casual. It was all on TV and when the camera approached ,Duran through out his chest and had a wide smile. The reporter asked Duran to introduce the woman. The married Duran announced very proudly,"Theez eez my gurlfend."
Duran looked at the reporter gloatingly like he wanted to say,"I have a wife,girlfriends,and nothing bothers me. Everybody is OK with it. Don't I have it made? Don't you wish you could be me,you emasculated little wimp?"
Duran had an attitude. They loved him in the Latino world. Even in Mexico where they would seperate Mexicans from other Latin Americans. BTW,Duran's mother was Mexican,but if your father is Panamanian you're a Panamanian. An unwritten Latin "macho" rule. Male domination,Latino style. I never heard anyone refer to Duran as being half Mexican.

Like Robert DeNiro. He's got more Irish blood in him than Italian,but hid dad is Italian. Robert DeNiro marching in the St. Paddy's Day Parade? I don't think so.

[kikibalt]

Can nobody tell me anything about Saxton? How good was he?

Bennie, its hard to say how good Saxton was, as he was control by the mob, and some of his fights might have been fixed, I seen him fight live on tv, and he seem to be a good boxer, not much power though, good fights with Basilio, he got a gift vs Gavilan.

I have some of his fights on DVDs

[bennie]

Thanks, Dagos (and Frankie). Saxton looks a bit like Carl Lewis in one of those shots.

[dagosd2000]

Can nobody tell me anything about Saxton? How good was he?

Bennie, its hard to say how good Saxton was, as he was control by the mob, and some of his fights might have been fixed, I seen him fight live on tv, and he seem to be a good boxer, not much power though, good fights with Basilio, he got a gift vs Gavilan.

I have some of his fights on DVDs

Frank's right. The Mob controlled him. Another gift was his first fight with Basilio. The ref wouldn't let Carmen work inside. Al Nitro and Johnny DeJohn ,who handled Carmen, didn't have the scrupples Carmen had,but Carmen stayed with them . Nitro and DeJohn didn't let Carmen in on things sometimes because Carmen wouldn't have gone for it.

That era of Basilio,Gavilan,DeMarco,Saxton,Bratton,Ortega,Aragon,and about another dozen Welterweight fighters ,whose names have escaped me, was a exciting period for that division.

[kikibalt]

Ceferino Garcia

[dagosd2000]

Hereeeeeee's Johnny





Jonnh Saxton

I see Johnny is an artist too. And you're right Bennie. Carl Lewis looks like Johnny.(other way around) Frank will vouch for me. These guys were well trained and had nice skills in the ring. They fought each other and weren't trying to "escape" with a win. Some were counter punchers(Gavilan was a good one)but they came to fight. Even guys who weren't in the top ten,you could count on for quality performances. You just don't see that much of that anymore.

[kikibalt]

[bennie]

You've hit the nail on the head, Dagos.
Duran (and the late Mando) is REAL. Just as Oscar De La Hoya comes across as somehow fake, so Duran acts as the flawed, food-loving womaniser he is.
In and out of the ring, you got everything of the man.

[kikibalt]

Enrique Bolanos

"Bolanos"
By Diego

[kikibalt]

Archie Moore

[bennie]

Archie Moore

Poor Archie must have suffered every form of mental and physical torture to make 12st 7lbs. He just looks BIG.

[dagosd2000]

Archie Moore

Poor Archie must have suffered every form of mental and physical torture to make 12st 7lbs. He just looks BIG.

You're right again Bennie. Archie had a rough time getting to 175. As he grew older he couldn't do it anymore. Another pearl from Arch:As a fighter gets older,he gets lazier. Training bscomes more and more of a chore. He doen't like going to the gym that much.

BTW,Moore weighed in heavier than Marciano in their title go.

[scartissue]

Thanks, Dagos (and Frankie). Saxton looks a bit like Carl Lewis in one of those shots.

Bennie, my Dad was at the first Basilio-Saxton fight in Chicago Stadium and he says to this day Basilio was robbed. Saxton was managed by Blinky Palermo which says alot about his connections. However he also held some really nice wins and I wouldn't question his heart. Anyone who can swap blows with Basilio (3 times), Gil Turner (twice), Giardello, Gavilan, etc. has to have stones. Incidentally, I've always heard he was one of the more gifted amateurs. When rating amateurs his name always seems to make the list.

Scartissue

[Boxingnut]

Marquez has a lot on the line against Casamayor

By Robert Morales

Juan Manuel Marquez is one of the few today who can lose and still remain a consensus top 10 pound-for-pound fighter. He is that good.

If he had his druthers, he would be tuning up for his third fight with pound-for-pound king Manny Pacquiao in order to continue to prove that. But since that is not going to happen just yet, Marquez is doing the next best thing by moving up in weight and challenging Joel Casamayor for his interim lightweight world championship.

They will get it on Sept. 13 at MGM Grand in Las Vegas. It's not exactly what most would consider a pay-per-view main event. But HBO will indeed televise

this Golden Boy Promotions card on its pay-per-view arm for $44.95.

The parties got together Tuesday at a news conference in Los Angeles to formally announce what has the potential to be a thriller. Casamayor may have just turned 37 on Saturday, but he showed last March that he is as vicious as ever when he stopped Michael Katsidis in the 10th round.

Casamayor was down once, Katsidis three times in a brutal fight. It was the first loss for Katsidis, a heavy hitting 27-year-old with an all-out attacking style.

In other words, Mexico's Marquez may be the early betting favorite, but he could be in for one of the most punishing fights of his career by taking on Cuba's Casamayor. Not only has Casamayor been a full-blown lightweight for four years, he can be very dirty in a given fight.
Marquez was not even a big 130-pound junior lightweight when he lost a split decision to Pacquiao in their second fight last March. And he's two months away from stepping into the ring with a hard-nosed 135-pound lightweight who will not hesitate to rough him up.

But you don't think that's going to scare Marquez, do you? Not a chance.

"He wanted the third fight with Pacquiao real bad," said Golden Boy matchmaker Eric Gomez, who said a deal offered Pacquiao was rejected. "So Juan Manuel said, 'Get me the next best thing.' "

Gomez said Nate Campbell, another lightweight champion, turned down Marquez.

"So the next best thing was Casamayor," Gomez said.

Gomez, like everyone present Tuesday, agreed that Marquez more than has his hands full with Casamayor. Heck, he could have fought a tune-up fight and no one would have complained. Then he could have approached Pacquiao again for something early next year.
Chances are that Bob Arum, Pacquiao's promoter, wants to let a third fight between Pacquiao and Marquez build to a fever pitch before making it. By early next year fans would be hot for that. Marquez certainly deserves it. As his promoter, Oscar De La Hoya, attests.
"He had great fights against Manny Pacquiao," De La Hoya said, "which both could have gone either way."

In their first fight in May 2004, Marquez got off the canvas three times in the first round. He came back to earn a 12-round draw. There were more than a few reporters who had Marquez winning. This one had Marquez coming all the way back to win by one point.

But again, there is no Marquez-Pacquiao III, so Casamayor it is.

"Casamayor is a great fighter, a great boxer, a great champion," Marquez said. "This fight at 135 is going to be very difficult for me, but possible to win."

Marquez went on to say that he wants to win for his country, for his Mexican people because the event is coming around the Sept. 16 Mexican Independence Day.

Well, the only way Marquez is going to feel he has his independence is if he gets that third fight with Pacquiao and finally emerges victorious. The thing is he has put himself in a position where he has to move up in weight and take on a rugged guy like Casamayor - and win.

If Marquez gets bombed out because he just isn't big enough to keep the left-handed Casamayor (36-3-1, 22 KOs) off him, it is doubtful Arum and Pacquiao would still entertain a third fight.

Marquez apparently couldn't care less about the risk.

"Moving up to 135 isn't going to be an easy task," De La Hoya said. "But Marquez, like the champion he is, is going to continue fighting the best to prove he is the great fighter he is."
This isn't just promoter rhetoric. Let's face it, Marquez has never received his just recognition even though he has been one of the best fighters in the world for the better part of this decade. Even Casamayor was impressed about Marquez making this move to challenge him for his belt. He said other star fighters over the years have not stepped up to the plate in this fashion.

"Nobody has wanted to fight me," Casamayor said. "Not (Marco Antonio) Barrera, not Pacquiao, not (Erik) Morales. It just shows what kind of a fighter Marquez is."

Marquez, 34, is going to have to be all that and more if he is going to make this move up a success. With a record of 48-4-1 and 35 knockouts, Marquez has a more than respectable knockout ratio. But he's not a one-punch knockout artist, and it's somewhat difficult to fathom that he is going to be able to dissuade Casamayor from coming full steam ahead.
Katsidis could't discourage Casamayor with his legimate lightweight power punches.

"I never thought that kid (Katsidis) would be that tough," Casamayor marveled, looking up and rolling his eyes for effect. "He was a lot tougher than people thought. It was a great fight, not only for me and Katsidis, but for the fans."

The hope here is that Marquez-Casamayor provide fans another great fight. The $44.95 demands it.

Robert Morales can be reached at [email protected]

Seeing this story of Casamayor reminded me of when my friend (John Heyes) once fought in a tournament in Bulgaria in the late 1980's and Casamayor was there (he was then a flyweight). When the fighters were weighing in Casamayor was eyeballing my friend, trying to psyche him out, they weren't even in the same weight division!! (my friend was a bantam). My friend John asked one of the other Cubans who spoke a little English what Casamayor's problem was and he just twirled his forefinger by his temple and said "El loco". Later on Casamayor came into my friends room in the hotel and offered to swap, by sign language, his Cuba training top for a pair of nearly new bag gloves. My friend accepted, Casamayor took the gloves and then started rooting through my mate's bag and was grabbing jeans and anything he could get hold of. John wrestled him off and Casamayor stormed into the bathroom. John followed him and saw him in the mirror stealing the toothpaste!! The Cuban boxer who spoke a little English said Casamayor was "dirt poor" and would take anything that wasn't nailed down.

[dagosd2000]

Thanks, Dagos (and Frankie). Saxton looks a bit like Carl Lewis in one of those shots.

Bennie, my Dad was at the first Basilio-Saxton fight in Chicago Stadium and he says to this day Basilio was robbed. Saxton was managed by Blinky Palermo which says alot about his connections. However he also held some really nice wins and I wouldn't question his heart. Anyone who can swap blows with Basilio (3 times), Gil Turner (twice), Giardello, Gavilan, etc. has to have stones. Incidentally, I've always heard he was one of the more gifted amateurs. When rating amateurs his name always seems to make the list.

Scartissue

Scar
your dad and my dad were probably sitting together and saw the same thing. Basilio had reservations about fighting in Chicago.

[dagosd2000]

Frank
Could you see yourself winning the lottery and taking part of the dough and opening a nice restaurant /bar? Maybe on Sunset Bl. Steaks,chops,shrimp cocktails.Man sized sandwiches for the lunch crowd. Hanging all your posters around the room in wooden frames.Pictures of fighters past and present with personal messages and autographs. Maybe some music on the weekends. A nice house piano. A blues group. A singer or two.Lots of conversation,but the place is never loud. Not too big,but the atmosphere is classy.Like the joint Dempsey had in New York. Maybe a mural on the wall of Aragon fighting Williams. Painted by Dagos.Souvenier menus,matchbooks. A big neon sign in front:"Baltazars" or maybe something like"Frank's Place".

Only one thing,if we're going to dream,let's turn the clock 50 years.

[scartissue]

Thanks, Dagos (and Frankie). Saxton looks a bit like Carl Lewis in one of those shots.

Bennie, my Dad was at the first Basilio-Saxton fight in Chicago Stadium and he says to this day Basilio was robbed. Saxton was managed by Blinky Palermo which says alot about his connections. However he also held some really nice wins and I wouldn't question his heart. Anyone who can swap blows with Basilio (3 times), Gil Turner (twice), Giardello, Gavilan, etc. has to have stones. Incidentally, I've always heard he was one of the more gifted amateurs. When rating amateurs his name always seems to make the list.

Scartissue

Scar
your dad and my dad were probably sitting together and saw the same thing. Basilio had reservations about fighting in Chicago.

My Pops always said that Basilio swore up and down that he would never fight in Chicago again aftr the Saxton fight, that it was a crooked fight town. However, he did defend his middleweight title here against Sugar Ray. You go where the money is regardless about your feelings of the town. Incidentally, a quick check of Carmen's record shows that he fought in the Windy City four times and never once did he get the decision.

Scartissue

[kikibalt]

[kikibalt]

Left to right - Dan Hanley, Rodolfo Gonzalez, Rick Farris, Greg
Patterson and Dan Hanley, Sr.

Great photo!!

Frank

[Rick Farris]

Georgie Benton

After we interviewed George Benton, I met he and his son in the bar and we sat for more than an hour talking. With nocamera in his face, Benton talked a bit more openly about Frankie Carbo, or "Mr. Grey", as he was known. Even after all these years, George Benton refused to say "too much" about the man who ran boxing half a century ago. I hope he returns this year, last year he was inducted into the WBHOF.

-Rick Farris

[bennie]

Marquez has a lot on the line against Casamayor

By Robert Morales

Juan Manuel Marquez is one of the few today who can lose and still remain a consensus top 10 pound-for-pound fighter. He is that good.

If he had his druthers, he would be tuning up for his third fight with pound-for-pound king Manny Pacquiao in order to continue to prove that. But since that is not going to happen just yet, Marquez is doing the next best thing by moving up in weight and challenging Joel Casamayor for his interim lightweight world championship.

They will get it on Sept. 13 at MGM Grand in Las Vegas. It's not exactly what most would consider a pay-per-view main event. But HBO will indeed televise

this Golden Boy Promotions card on its pay-per-view arm for $44.95.

The parties got together Tuesday at a news conference in Los Angeles to formally announce what has the potential to be a thriller. Casamayor may have just turned 37 on Saturday, but he showed last March that he is as vicious as ever when he stopped Michael Katsidis in the 10th round.

Casamayor was down once, Katsidis three times in a brutal fight. It was the first loss for Katsidis, a heavy hitting 27-year-old with an all-out attacking style.

In other words, Mexico's Marquez may be the early betting favorite, but he could be in for one of the most punishing fights of his career by taking on Cuba's Casamayor. Not only has Casamayor been a full-blown lightweight for four years, he can be very dirty in a given fight.
Marquez was not even a big 130-pound junior lightweight when he lost a split decision to Pacquiao in their second fight last March. And he's two months away from stepping into the ring with a hard-nosed 135-pound lightweight who will not hesitate to rough him up.

But you don't think that's going to scare Marquez, do you? Not a chance.

"He wanted the third fight with Pacquiao real bad," said Golden Boy matchmaker Eric Gomez, who said a deal offered Pacquiao was rejected. "So Juan Manuel said, 'Get me the next best thing.' "

Gomez said Nate Campbell, another lightweight champion, turned down Marquez.

"So the next best thing was Casamayor," Gomez said.

Gomez, like everyone present Tuesday, agreed that Marquez more than has his hands full with Casamayor. Heck, he could have fought a tune-up fight and no one would have complained. Then he could have approached Pacquiao again for something early next year.
Chances are that Bob Arum, Pacquiao's promoter, wants to let a third fight between Pacquiao and Marquez build to a fever pitch before making it. By early next year fans would be hot for that. Marquez certainly deserves it. As his promoter, Oscar De La Hoya, attests.
"He had great fights against Manny Pacquiao," De La Hoya said, "which both could have gone either way."

In their first fight in May 2004, Marquez got off the canvas three times in the first round. He came back to earn a 12-round draw. There were more than a few reporters who had Marquez winning. This one had Marquez coming all the way back to win by one point.

But again, there is no Marquez-Pacquiao III, so Casamayor it is.

"Casamayor is a great fighter, a great boxer, a great champion," Marquez said. "This fight at 135 is going to be very difficult for me, but possible to win."

Marquez went on to say that he wants to win for his country, for his Mexican people because the event is coming around the Sept. 16 Mexican Independence Day.

Well, the only way Marquez is going to feel he has his independence is if he gets that third fight with Pacquiao and finally emerges victorious. The thing is he has put himself in a position where he has to move up in weight and take on a rugged guy like Casamayor - and win.

If Marquez gets bombed out because he just isn't big enough to keep the left-handed Casamayor (36-3-1, 22 KOs) off him, it is doubtful Arum and Pacquiao would still entertain a third fight.

Marquez apparently couldn't care less about the risk.

"Moving up to 135 isn't going to be an easy task," De La Hoya said. "But Marquez, like the champion he is, is going to continue fighting the best to prove he is the great fighter he is."
This isn't just promoter rhetoric. Let's face it, Marquez has never received his just recognition even though he has been one of the best fighters in the world for the better part of this decade. Even Casamayor was impressed about Marquez making this move to challenge him for his belt. He said other star fighters over the years have not stepped up to the plate in this fashion.

"Nobody has wanted to fight me," Casamayor said. "Not (Marco Antonio) Barrera, not Pacquiao, not (Erik) Morales. It just shows what kind of a fighter Marquez is."

Marquez, 34, is going to have to be all that and more if he is going to make this move up a success. With a record of 48-4-1 and 35 knockouts, Marquez has a more than respectable knockout ratio. But he's not a one-punch knockout artist, and it's somewhat difficult to fathom that he is going to be able to dissuade Casamayor from coming full steam ahead.
Katsidis could't discourage Casamayor with his legimate lightweight power punches.

"I never thought that kid (Katsidis) would be that tough," Casamayor marveled, looking up and rolling his eyes for effect. "He was a lot tougher than people thought. It was a great fight, not only for me and Katsidis, but for the fans."

The hope here is that Marquez-Casamayor provide fans another great fight. The $44.95 demands it.

Robert Morales can be reached at [email protected]

Seeing this story of Casamayor reminded me of when my friend (John Heyes) once fought in a tournament in Bulgaria in the late 1980's and Casamayor was there (he was then a flyweight). When the fighters were weighing in Casamayor was eyeballing my friend, trying to psyche him out, they weren't even in the same weight division!! (my friend was a bantam). My friend John asked one of the other Cubans who spoke a little English what Casamayor's problem was and he just twirled his forefinger by his temple and said "El loco". Later on Casamayor came into my friends room in the hotel and offered to swap, by sign language, his Cuba training top for a pair of nearly new bag gloves. My friend accepted, Casamayor took the gloves and then started rooting through my mate's bag and was grabbing jeans and anything he could get hold of. John wrestled him off and Casamayor stormed into the bathroom. John followed him and saw him in the mirror stealing the toothpaste!! The Cuban boxer who spoke a little English said Casamayor was "dirt poor" and would take anything that wasn't nailed down.

Great story, Rob. Casamayor's defection was inevitable, then.

[bennie]

Micky Vann says something similar about Ken Buchanan at a Denmark weigh-in in the early 1970s. Micky is quite dark-skinned and Buchanan mistook Vann for his Latin-American opponent. In his autobiography Vann recalls that Buchanan walked right up to him and began shadowboxing furiously in his face.
"Kenny, Kenny - I'm English!"