Jimmy Young vs Smokin' Joe Frazier, in their primes.

[yancey]

What happens?

[BoxBuzz]

Well....Joe chases him......and chases him.....and chases him.....and chases him relentlessy, but I'm not sure if he catches him enough or if he just catches a lot of incoming over the course of 12 rounds. Good one. granberry will be hard pressed to pick one...as these are his two favorites as I recall.

I think Joe chases him down, wears him down, cuts of the ring, deals with a LOT of incoming and ultimates wins in the eyes of the judges. I wouldn't want to be Joe's face or Jimmy's body at the end of the exchange. It will be a bad day for both.

[HomicideHenry]

Frazier's style is such to be perfect to defeat a prime Jimmy Young, though albiet, it would be almost certainly as tough an ordeal for Joe as it was when he fought Muhammad Ali, only differences in my opinion is that Young was more a "cutie" in the ring than Ali, and could throw punches from more angles, was just as elusive.

Frazier charges throughout, going to the body, slowly bringing Young's defenses and speed down, edges out a split decision over Young [15 rounds], had it been 12, I'd give it to Young, if not a draw.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Well....Joe chases him......and chases him.....and chases him.....and chases him relentlessy, but I'm not sure if he catches him enough or if he just catches a lot of incoming over the course of 12 rounds. Good one. granberry will be hard pressed to pick one...as these are his two favorites as I recall.

I think Joe chases him down, wears him down, cuts of the ring, deals with a LOT of incoming and ultimates wins in the eyes of the judges. I wouldn't want to be Joe's face or Jimmy's body at the end of the exchange. It will be a bad day for both.

Young lost a unanimous decision to a fat , out of shape , past his prime, thirty four year old two hundred thirty pound Ali who was so disinterested in the fight that he literally wagged his ample buttocks while he was on the ropes and called it the "rolling fanny"...

Joe Frazier would walk through whatever he threw at him the way he walked through Jimmy Ellis' punches in 1970 and knock him out in five rounds ...

Jimmy Young's claim to fame is his 34-19 record, his running out of the ring twice against a morbidly obese Muhammad Ali, losing a split decision to Ken Norton and beating George Foreman who was still smarting from his loss to Muhammad Ali...

Earnie Shaver was a slugger and he dropped Jimmy Young in three rounds...Joe Frazier was a swarmer/slugger...I don't see much hope for him...He's not nearly strong enough to hang with Smokin Joe...

[yancey]

Well....Joe chases him......and chases him.....and chases him.....and chases him relentlessy, but I'm not sure if he catches him enough or if he just catches a lot of incoming over the course of 12 rounds. Good one. granberry will be hard pressed to pick one...as these are his two favorites as I recall.

I think Joe chases him down, wears him down, cuts of the ring, deals with a LOT of incoming and ultimates wins in the eyes of the judges. I wouldn't want to be Joe's face or Jimmy's body at the end of the exchange. It will be a bad day for both.

Young lost a unanimous decision to a fat , out of shape , past his prime, thirty four year old two hundred thirty pound Ali who was so disinterested in the fight that he literally wagged his ample buttocks while he was on the ropes and called it the "rolling fanny"...

Joe Frazier would walk through whatever he threw at him the way he walked through Jimmy Ellis' punches in 1970 and knock him out in five rounds ...

Jimmy Young's claim to fame is his 34-19 record, his running out of the ring twice against a morbidly obese Muhammad Ali, losing a split decision to Ken Norton and beating George Foreman who was still smarting from his loss to Muhammad Ali...

Earnie Shaver was a slugger and he dropped Jimmy Young in three rounds...Joe Frazier was a swarmer/slugger...I don't see much hope for him...He's not nearly strong enough to hang with Smokin Joe...

Hey, we agree on something.

Frazier indeed walks through Young, for the reasons you listed.

I'm pretty surprised others see it as going the distance with a close decision.

I would like to hear Granberry's take, but I would be surprised if he replies on this one.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Well....Joe chases him......and chases him.....and chases him.....and chases him relentlessy, but I'm not sure if he catches him enough or if he just catches a lot of incoming over the course of 12 rounds. Good one. granberry will be hard pressed to pick one...as these are his two favorites as I recall.

I think Joe chases him down, wears him down, cuts of the ring, deals with a LOT of incoming and ultimates wins in the eyes of the judges. I wouldn't want to be Joe's face or Jimmy's body at the end of the exchange. It will be a bad day for both.

Young lost a unanimous decision to a fat , out of shape , past his prime, thirty four year old two hundred thirty pound Ali who was so disinterested in the fight that he literally wagged his ample buttocks while he was on the ropes and called it the "rolling fanny"...

Joe Frazier would walk through whatever he threw at him the way he walked through Jimmy Ellis' punches in 1970 and knock him out in five rounds ...

Jimmy Young's claim to fame is his 34-19 record, his running out of the ring twice against a morbidly obese Muhammad Ali, losing a split decision to Ken Norton and beating George Foreman who was still smarting from his loss to Muhammad Ali...

Earnie Shaver was a slugger and he dropped Jimmy Young in three rounds...Joe Frazier was a swarmer/slugger...I don't see much hope for him...He's not nearly strong enough to hang with Smokin Joe...

Hey, we agree on something.

Frazier indeed walks through Young, for the reasons you listed.

I'm pretty surprised others see it as going the distance with a close decision.

I would like to hear Granberry's take, but I would be surprised if he replies on this one.

By the way I watched the Frazier-Eliis fight two weeks ago on ESPN...Jimmy Ellis was doing everything right...The problem was Joe just walked through his punches...

We probably agree on much... I respect Joe as a fighter and a man...I have loads of African American friends; some are like Joe and some are like Ali but the older ones seem to be more like Joe...

If Joe would have fought in another era he might have been The Goat.... I think he would own much of the fifties and early sixties...

[BoxBuzz]

Well to claim the above scenario brings Ali's stock back up....and I was reticent to do that in a public forum and risk the wrath of "con".

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Well to claim the above scenario brings Ali's stock back up....and I was reticent to do that in a public forum and risk the wrath of "con".

First off, Joe would have been a great champ with a long reign in almost any era...His challenge to Ali and the way Ali met that challenge is what defined him...


Jimmy Young lost a unanimous decision to a thirty four year old , 230 pound Muhammad Ali, who was so contemptuos of him that he literally layed on the ropes and wiggled his ample buttocks to the delight of the crowd...

You don't beat the champ by sticking your head out the ropes twice...

Here's what a prime Ali did to a great "classical" boxer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfII9Smfq70

Does this even look like the same man?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ07gp2ZFOE

Here's what Folley said about Ali:



"...There's no way to train yourself for what he does. The moves the speed, the punches, and the way he changes style every time you have him figured. The right hands Ali hit me just had no business landing but they did. They came from nowhere. Many times he was in the wrong position but he hit me anyway. I've never seen anybody who could do that. The knockdown punch was so fast I never saw it. He has lots of snaps, and when the punches land they dizzy your head.; they fuzz up your mind. He's smart. The trickiest fighter I have ever seen. He's had twenty nine fights and acts like had one hundred. He could write the book on boxing , and anyone that fights him should be made to read it."

[yancey]

Well to claim the above scenario brings Ali's stock back up....and I was reticent to do that in a public forum and risk the wrath of "con".

First off, Joe would have been a great champ with a long reign in almost any era...His challenge to Ali and the way Ali met that challenge is what defined him...


Jimmy Young lost a unanimous decision to a thirty four year old , 230 pound Muhammad Ali, who was so contemptuos of him that he literally layed on the ropes and wiggled his ample buttocks to the delight of the crowd...

You don't beat the champ by sticking your head out the ropes twice...

Here's what a prime Ali did to a great "classical" boxer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfII9Smfq70

Does this even look like the same man?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ07gp2ZFOE

Here's what Folley said about Ali:



"...There's no way to train yourself for what he does. The moves the speed, the punches, and the way he changes style every time you have him figured. The right hands Ali hit me just had no business landing but they did. They came from nowhere. Many times he was in the wrong position but he hit me anyway. I've never seen anybody who could do that. The knockdown punch was so fast I never saw it. He has lots of snaps, and when the punches land they dizzy your head.; they fuzz up your mind. He's smart. The trickiest fighter I have ever seen. He's had twenty nine fights and acts like had one hundred. He could write the book on boxing , and anyone that fights him should be made to read it."

Folley was someone that Ali treated very well. He was definitely past prime when he met Ali, and had been screwed out of deserved title shots. Ali got him a nice payday, they respected each other, and Folley was able to go back to Arizona and buy a house.

p.s. That fight was nationally televised, and I've always suspected Ali carried him a bit, in order not to embarass Folley.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Well to claim the above scenario brings Ali's stock back up....and I was reticent to do that in a public forum and risk the wrath of "con".

First off, Joe would have been a great champ with a long reign in almost any era...His challenge to Ali and the way Ali met that challenge is what defined him...


Jimmy Young lost a unanimous decision to a thirty four year old , 230 pound Muhammad Ali, who was so contemptuos of him that he literally layed on the ropes and wiggled his ample buttocks to the delight of the crowd...

You don't beat the champ by sticking your head out the ropes twice...

Here's what a prime Ali did to a great "classical" boxer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfII9Smfq70

Does this even look like the same man?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ07gp2ZFOE

Here's what Folley said about Ali:



"...There's no way to train yourself for what he does. The moves the speed, the punches, and the way he changes style every time you have him figured. The right hands Ali hit me just had no business landing but they did. They came from nowhere. Many times he was in the wrong position but he hit me anyway. I've never seen anybody who could do that. The knockdown punch was so fast I never saw it. He has lots of snaps, and when the punches land they dizzy your head.; they fuzz up your mind. He's smart. The trickiest fighter I have ever seen. He's had twenty nine fights and acts like had one hundred. He could write the book on boxing , and anyone that fights him should be made to read it."

Folley was someone that Ali treated very well. He was definitely past prime when he met Ali, and had been screwed out of deserved title shots. Ali got him a nice payday, they respected each other, and Folley was able to go back to Arizona and buy a house.

p.s. That fight was nationally televised, and I've always suspected Ali carried him a bit, in order not to embarass Folley.

He even consoled Folley's son who was crying at ringside...Another boxer who died tragically under suspicious conditions...


Folley was a good fighter who could make other fighters look bad...What distinguished Ali, imho, was his fast hands, fast feet, quick reflexes, and heart... I think after Manilla all he had left was heart...Even when he whipped himself into great shape for Norton lll and Spinks ll most of his speed and reflexes were gone...

[Robinson]

This makes for a good match up prime for prime.
I think Frazier wears into Young, though hard to catch
for a head hunter, Frazier's body assaults takes away
Young's movement and guile.

I do not see Frazier stopping Young, but I do see good
exchanges and a pretty competitive match. Frazier wins
a good decision.

[yancey]

This makes for a good match up prime for prime.
I think Frazier wears into Young, though hard to catch
for a head hunter, Frazier's body assaults takes away
Young's movement and guile.

I do not see Frazier stopping Young, but I do see good
exchanges and a pretty competitive match. Frazier wins
a good decision.

Surprised to see you thinking it goes the distance, but maybe you are right.

I just see Frazier forcing Young to defend and fight at a pace he is not used to, and breaking him down and overwhelming him inside 8. The slick moves can only take you so far if you have a relentless swarmer hunting you down and not much firepower to hold him off.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

This makes for a good match up prime for prime.
I think Frazier wears into Young, though hard to catch
for a head hunter, Frazier's body assaults takes away
Young's movement and guile.

I do not see Frazier stopping Young, but I do see good
exchanges and a pretty competitive match. Frazier wins
a good decision.

Surprised to see you thinking it goes the distance, but maybe you are right.

I just see Frazier forcing Young to defend and fight at a pace he is not used to, and breaking him down and overwhelming him inside 8. The slick moves can only take you so far if you have a relentless swarmer hunting you down and not much firepower to hold him off.

The slick moves can only take you so far when the other guy does not feel your punches- see Frazier-Ellis, Shavers -Young ...Cooney-Young...

Just because he lost a controversial decision to an old, fat Muhammad Ali and edged a scattered
George Foreman does not mean he beats a Prime Joe Frazier...Look at his record...Watch some of his fights...Hector Cammacho hits harder ...

[Collins2000]

This makes for a good match up prime for prime.
I think Frazier wears into Young, though hard to catch
for a head hunter, Frazier's body assaults takes away
Young's movement and guile.

I do not see Frazier stopping Young, but I do see good
exchanges and a pretty competitive match. Frazier wins
a good decision.

Surprised to see you thinking it goes the distance, but maybe you are right.

I just see Frazier forcing Young to defend and fight at a pace he is not used to, and breaking him down and overwhelming him inside 8. The slick moves can only take you so far if you have a relentless swarmer hunting you down and not much firepower to hold him off.

The slick moves can only take you so far when the other guy does not feel your punches- see Frazier-Ellis, Shavers -Young ...Cooney-Young...

Just because he lost a controversial decision to an old, fat Muhammad Ali and edged a scattered
George Foreman does not mean he beats a Prime Joe Frazier...Look at his record...Watch some of his fights...Hector Cammacho hits harder ...

In the fictional universe inhabited by granberry and elmo, Jimmy Young was 'the greatest boxer of his era'.

[elmersalsa]

Not many fighters or heavyweights would have beaten the great Joe Frazier of the Quarry I, Ellis I and the fight of the century with Ali. He was a devastating fighter. What a left hook.

Joe Frazier, circa 1968-71, was as great as it gets.

Frazier by KO in 8 rounds.

[yancey]

Not many fighters or heavyweights would have beaten the great Joe Frazier of the Quarry I, Ellis I and the fight of the century with Ali. He was a devastating fighter. What a left hook.

Joe Frazier, circa 1968-71, was as great as it gets.

Frazier by KO in 8 rounds.

Agree 100% with your opinion of '68-'71 Frazier.

I know Manuel Ramos tailed off badly in his career, but if you ever want to see a relentless buzz saw in action, watch what Frazier did to him in their 1968 fight.

Two rounds and Ramos wanted out of there!

[Robinson]

I can not see Young beating Frazier, but I do
think his awkwardness and skills at self preservation
keep the fight dull at points and keeps Frazier away
from his chin, though not Young's body.

I see it being a good win for Frazier, but not a
fan favourite.

[granberry]

In the fictional universe inhabited by granberry and elmo, Jimmy Young was 'the greatest boxer of his era'.

Jimmy Young certainly was a better boxer than Ali.

Jimmy Young made an ass out of Ali for 15 rounds.

Ali didn't have a clue how to fight Young.

Angelo Dundee said after the fight of Ali, "He never looked so bad."

Ferdie Pacheco said, "Jimmy Young was fighting a legend, and he did very, very well."

That is why Young is so hated by the members of the Religion of Ali.

He made an ass out of Ali.

[yancey]

Granberry,

Any thoughts on how Jimmy would have fared against Frazier?

[TheOneIsHere2008]

In the fictional universe inhabited by granberry and elmo, Jimmy Young was 'the greatest boxer of his era'.

Jimmy Young certainly was a better boxer than Ali.

Jimmy Young made an ass out of Ali for 15 rounds.

Ali didn't have a clue how to fight Young.

Angelo Dundee said after the fight of Ali, "He never looked so bad."

Ferdie Pacheco said, "Jimmy Young was fighting a legend, and he did very, very well."

That is why Young is so hated by the members of the Religion of Ali.

He made an ass out of Ali.

This is a prime Ali against a great boxer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3ErpPwJ_AM


This is a old, fat Ali against Young:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ07gp2ZFOE


Here's what a great boxer like Zora Folley said about Ali:


"...There's no way to train yourself for what he does. The moves the speed, the punches, and the way he changes style every time you have him figured. The right hands Ali hit me just had no business landing but they did. They came from nowhere. Many times he was in the wrong position but he hit me anyway. I've never seen anybody who could do that. The knockdown punch was so fast I never saw it. He has lots of snaps, and when the punches land they dizzy your head.; they fuzz up your mind. He's smart. The trickiest fighter I have ever seen. He's had twenty nine fights and acts like had one hundred. He could write the book on boxing , and anyone that fights him should be made to read it."

[granberry]

Granberry,

Any thoughts on how Jimmy would have fared against Frazier?

Young and Frazier sparred a lot when they were young. And Harold Johnson sparred a lot with the two of them.

Johnson told me a lot about each of them, from his point of view.

Young learned a lot from Johnson.

Harold Johnson said, "Jimmy Young beat Clay."

But what does he know.

LOL

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Why did Jimmy Young stick his head through the ropes three times in two minutes?

Go to the 3:55 to the 6:00 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuwGPnie ... re=related

How do you beat the champ by running out the ring?

[granberry]

Harold Johnson said, "Jimmy Young beat Clay."

But what does he know about boxing.

LOL

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Harold Johnson said, "Jimmy Young beat Clay."

But what does he know about boxing.

LOL

"(Joe) Louis wouldn't have a chance he was too slow.There's no way to train yourself for what he does. The moves the speed, the punches, and the way he changes style every time you have him figured. The right hands Ali hit me just had no business landing but they did. They came from nowhere. Many times he was in the wrong position but he hit me anyway. I've never seen anybody who could do that. The knockdown punch was so fast I never saw it. He has lots of snaps, and when the punches land they dizzy your head.; they fuzz up your mind. He's smart. The trickiest fighter I have ever seen. He's had twenty nine fights and acts like had one hundred. He could write the book on boxing , and anyone that fights him should be made to read it."

-Zora Folley
Sports Illiustrated
April 10, 1967

[granberry]

Lester Bromberg called the decision in the Young-Ali fight "A travesty of a decision."

Bromberg scored the fight 11 rounds for Young, and 4 for Ali.

But what does Lester Bromberg know about boxing.

LOL