Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Boxingnut]

Only one page on you and the boys? That kinda puts me off!! :)[/quote]

The Baltazar family history is like a history of the Jr. Golden Gloves in Los Angeles boxing. A book will be out in due course that will reveal not just the boxers and their fights, but where they came from and how it all started, the true foundation of L.A. boxing in the post WW2 eras. In that, you will read a lot more about the Baltazars, and others as well. This can only be written by a true L.A. boxing insider.

-Rick[/quote]

I can't wait!!

[Rick Farris]

Louie Loy, his dad, whose name I can never remember, and his brother Larry

Louie Loy's father's name is Louie, also. Loy Sr. has a backyard gym in the North Hills section of the San Fernando Valley, a couple blocks off of Sepulveda Blvd. & Nordhoff. Louie Loy Sr. is one of those unsung heros in boxing, a guy who teaches a lot of kids how to box, and makes it possible for them to find their way off the streets and into something positive. A good man, most certainly.

-Rick Farris

[dagosd2000]

Rick or Frank
Do you guys have anything on Kid Rapidez. In my mind,a forgotten trainer. I know Dundee worked with Napoles and Sugar Ramos,but Kid Rapidez taught these guys how to fight. If Rapidez developed Jose Napoles's techniques and skills,he's up there with the best trainers of all time.Thanks

[Rick Farris]

Frank . . . once more I must thank you for posting the pages from Knockout for us to read. This is not my first experience reading this info, Johnny Flores gave me three big boxes of these publications when I was a kid. While my friends read "MAD" magazines, I read Knockout & Referee publications that Flores had given me. This is where I learned a lot about the guys who you were training with after the war. I would take that info and ask questions in the gym and I'd get accurate answers from Flores, Duke Holloway, Rip Roseboro, Tony Marino, Johnny Villaflor, Teo Serrano, Jake Shagrue, Howie Steindler, the Soto Brothers, and many more, including, of course, the boxers. Many of the names were still around, no longer young up & comers, but batttle scarred vets and those who became trainers. Some times the fighter's were bitter, but mainly they were open and spoke with warmth about their past. A few years later, George Parnassus was cleaning out his office and asked if I wanted a couple boxes of "crap" that was headed for the trash. "You bet, I'll take anything you don't want", I answered. I carried this "crap" around for twenty years until my first wife chose to put it where it was destined prior to my rescuing it from Parnassus, in the trash. We were going thru a nasty divorce, I was on a film location, and when I returned my "boxing history publications", were history. Oh well, you don't ever want to underestimate what a pissed off woman might do.

-Ricardo

[dagosd2000]

Like I said I hadn't been to LA. in a while. April it was Commerce. Friday,Wilmington. You can tell the downward economy has hit these places hard. The jobs and companies that have moved over seas have turned these once prospering communities almost into ghost towns. Signs on buildings reading "For Rent" and "For Lease". A lot of store fronts are boarded up. Geez,it was a Friday afternoon when I got up to Wilmington. It seemed like a Sunday. A lot of places closed. A little store here and there. A bar. In front of the Longshoremen Building there must have been 20 guys languishing around. They looked bored.No movement on the streets.Wilmington is right next to Long Beach. You think the trade would be moving in and out and there'd be a lot of activity.I didn't see one of those big cranes that unload the cargo in action. The big arms hanging there side by side. I passed a flop house called The Wilmington Hotel. Outside it was sunny,the sidewalk empty. Weeds growing up through the cracks along the curb. I heard a radio playing music coming out from the front desk. You could barely hear any sound.

[dagosd2000]

Frank . . . once more I must thank you for posting the pages from Knockout for us to read. This is not my first experience reading this info, Johnny Flores gave me three big boxes of these publications when I was a kid. While my friends read "MAD" magazines, I read Knockout & Referee publications that Flores had given me. This is where I learned a lot about the guys who you were training with after the war. I would take that info and ask questions in the gym and I'd get accurate answers from Flores, Duke Holloway, Rip Roseboro, Tony Marino, Johnny Villaflor, Teo Serrano, Jake Shagrue, Howie Steindler, the Soto Brothers, and many more, including, of course, the boxers. Many of the names were still around, no longer young up & comers, but batttle scarred vets and those who became trainers. Some times the fighter's were bitter, but mainly they were open and spoke with warmth about their past. A few years later, George Parnassus was cleaning out his office and asked if I wanted a couple boxes of "crap" that was headed for the trash. "You bet, I'll take anything you don't want", I answered. I carried this "crap" around for twenty years until my first wife chose to put it where it was destined prior to my rescuing it from Parnassus, in the trash. We were going thru a nasty divorce, I was on a film location, and when I returned my "boxing history publications", were history. Oh well, you don't ever want to underestimate what a pissed off woman might do.

-Ricardo

Rick
I posted last week about women tossing out our stuff without asking permission. Good thing our balls are attached,though with some guys I wonder.

[Rick Farris]

Rick or Frank
Do you guys have anything on Kid Rapidez. In my mind,a forgotten trainer. I know Dundee worked with Napoles and Sugar Ramos,but Kid Rapidez taught these guys how to fight. If Rapidez developed Jose Napoles's techniques and skills,he's up there with the best trainers of all time.Thanks

Dagos . . . WOW! That's a name that brings back memories from the days Napoles was headlining George Parnasus cards at the FORUM. I didn't know Kid Rapidez, but I did watch him work with Napoles at the Elks Bldg. I recall when I was working with Ruben Olivares prior to the Pimentel fight, Napoles was preparing for Hedgeman Lewis on the same card. I'd sit and watch Mantequilla go thru his drills while warming up for my sparring session with Olivares. Angelo Dundee never really trained Napoles or Sugar Ramos, either one, it was Rapidez. Angelo's talent is more valuable in the corner, where he is a great motivator and has a lot of savvy related to getting his fighter an "edge". In most cases, Angelo Dundee didn't show up until a few days before a fight, would get in on the publicity, and work the corner. The real "meat & potatoes" of training a boxer is left to those who are much better at it, and Kid Rapidez was one of the best. Same thing was true of Dundee's relationship with Sugar Ray Leonard, he was never Leonard's teacher, just a wise cornerman. Janks Morton taught Sugar Ray Leonard how to box, and he certainly did a great job, I'd have to say. And yeah Roger, I agree with you, Kid Rapidez certainly rates up there with the best, he was one of them for sure! So were a lot of the guys from Mexico, Cuyo Hernandez, Pauncho Rosales and Lupe Sanchez. These guys were boxing genius, most of today's lot couldn't teach a cat how to crap in a box.

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Frank . . . once more I must thank you for posting the pages from Knockout for us to read. This is not my first experience reading this info, Johnny Flores gave me three big boxes of these publications when I was a kid. While my friends read "MAD" magazines, I read Knockout & Referee publications that Flores had given me. This is where I learned a lot about the guys who you were training with after the war. I would take that info and ask questions in the gym and I'd get accurate answers from Flores, Duke Holloway, Rip Roseboro, Tony Marino, Johnny Villaflor, Teo Serrano, Jake Shagrue, Howie Steindler, the Soto Brothers, and many more, including, of course, the boxers. Many of the names were still around, no longer young up & comers, but batttle scarred vets and those who became trainers. Some times the fighter's were bitter, but mainly they were open and spoke with warmth about their past. A few years later, George Parnassus was cleaning out his office and asked if I wanted a couple boxes of "crap" that was headed for the trash. "You bet, I'll take anything you don't want", I answered. I carried this "crap" around for twenty years until my first wife chose to put it where it was destined prior to my rescuing it from Parnassus, in the trash. We were going thru a nasty divorce, I was on a film location, and when I returned my "boxing history publications", were history. Oh well, you don't ever want to underestimate what a pissed off woman might do.

-Ricardo

Rick
I posted last week about women tossing out our stuff without asking permission. Good thing our balls are attached,though with some guys I wonder.

LOL! I was thinking of your post when I wrote this, Roger. After two divorces, I had lost a lot, but my balls are still in tact, and this time I avoided the blonde American broads and married a Brazilian babe who takes care of me like nobody I've ever known. Once again Dagos, you are 100% correct- lots of eunics in the world today. Don't know if they were castrated, or just born without the standard issue pair that was once the norm?

-Rick

[dagosd2000]

Rick or Frank
Do you guys have anything on Kid Rapidez. In my mind,a forgotten trainer. I know Dundee worked with Napoles and Sugar Ramos,but Kid Rapidez taught these guys how to fight. If Rapidez developed Jose Napoles's techniques and skills,he's up there with the best trainers of all time.Thanks

Dagos . . . WOW! That's a name that brings back memories from the days Napoles was headlining George Parnasus cards at the FORUM. I didn't know Kid Rapidez, but I did watch him work with Napoles at the Elks Bldg. I recall when I was working with Ruben Olivares prior to the Pimentel fight, Napoles was preparing for Hedgeman Lewis on the same card. I'd sit and watch Mantequilla go thru his drills while warming up for my sparring session with Olivares. Angelo Dundee never really trained Napoles or Sugar Ramos, either one, it was Rapidez. Angelo's talent is more valuable in the corner, where he is a great motivator and has a lot of savvy related to getting his fighter an "edge". In most cases, Angelo Dundee didn't show up until a few days before a fight, would get in on the publicity, and work the corner. The real "meat & potatoes" of training a boxer is left to those who are much better at it, and Kid Rapidez was one of the best. Same thing was true of Dundee's relationship with Sugar Ray Leonard, he was never Leonard's teacher, just a wise cornerman. Janks Morton taught Sugar Ray Leonard how to box, and he certainly did a great job, I'd have to say. And yeah Roger, I agree with you, Kid Rapidez certainly rates up there with the best, he was one of them for sure! So were a lot of the guys from Mexico, Cuyo Hernandez, Pauncho Rosales and Lupe Sanchez. These guys were boxing genius, most of today's lot couldn't teach a cat how to crap in a box.

-Rick Farris

Great reply Rick
I remember when Luis Rodriguez was fighting down here. Dundee showed up the last two weeks of camp when things were winding down. Saw Napoles workout once in TJ. They had a boxing gym upstairs between the jail and the fire station. The place was packed to the doors to watch Jose train . Kid Rapidez was the guy working with him. Thanks

BTW,I went to where that old gym was a few months back. I asked one of the young fireman if I could go upstairs and take a look at the place. He had a puzzled look on his face.
"Pasa"
I walk up the steps and they had turned the gym into a storage area for broken equipment from the station. I walked down to the bottom of the stairs and thanked the fireman for letting me go up there. The young guy looked at me funny still. As I walked down the street,I remembered "Mantequilla" shadow boxing in front of the mirror.

[dagosd2000]

Rick
About the marraige thing you posted. Well we'll talk in October about this. I'll bring my wife, and Frank and Connie will be there. You made a good move pal. Rog

[Rick Farris]

Like I said I hadn't been to LA. in a while. April it was Commerce. Friday,Wilmington. You can tell the downward economy has hit these places hard. The jobs and companies that have moved over seas have turned these once prospering communities almost into ghost towns. Signs on buildings reading "For Rent" and "For Lease". A lot of store fronts are boarded up. Geez,it was a Friday afternoon when I got up to Wilmington. It seemed like a Sunday. A lot of places closed. A little store here and there. A bar. In front of the Longshoremen Building there must have been 20 guys languishing around. They looked bored.No movement on the streets.Wilmington is right next to Long Beach. You think the trade would be moving in and out and there'd be a lot of activity.I didn't see one of those big cranes that unload the cargo in action. The big arms hanging there side by side. I passed a flop house called The Wilmington Hotel. Outside it was sunny,the sidewalk empty. Weeds growing up through the cracks along the curb. I heard a radio playing music coming out from the front desk. You could barely hear any sound.

Yeah Dagos, I know what you mean. I get around town quite a bit in my business and like you said, some areas are just different, almost deserted. Downtown, more to the eastside, where the railroad tracks were, there was a lot of industry along the L.A. river, today, the old factories and warehouses have been converted into upscale lofts for the yuppy crowd. Skid Row is now trendy, where there was once a dive bar, stands a Starbucks. Poor damn winos are being pushed outta their neighborhoods. Once, where you only saw winos, drug addicts, street people, transvestites, prostitutes aand crack ho's, etc. around midnight, you have secretarys wearing sexy designer gym attire, walking their dogs. In the old days, you'd never see such a thing around 4th & Main St. at ANY hour, women would be intimidated. Today, they step over the bums, and the street people are on the run. What's the neighborhood coming to?

-Rick

[Rick Farris]

Rick
About the marraige thing you posted. Well we'll talk in October about this. I'll bring my wife, and Frank and Connie will be there. You made a good move pal. Rog

Looking forward to it, amigo! I think you guys will like Monica, and vice versa. When I get the tickets I'll let you know.

-Rick

[dagosd2000]

Rick knows,but have you ever seen Frank eat? The guy is still at fighting weight. (I don't know if he's in fighting SHAPE though) and eats like there's no tomorrow. After demolishing whatever he had when I arrived(I think it was fried chicken,beans and rice),he gets up and brings over a couple of sandwiches that were made by Andre the Giant. Like nothing. Chomping away,while the doctor had just told me I better go on a diet or they'll be counting ten over me. There's Frank. All casual talking and shoveling it in like a blast furnace. No wonder Connie don't cook. She can't keep up with him.

[dagosd2000]

Rick
About the marraige thing you posted. Well we'll talk in October about this. I'll bring my wife, and Frank and Connie will be there. You made a good move pal. Rog

Looking forward to it, amigo! I think you guys will like Monica, and vice versa. When I get the tickets I'll let you know.

-Rick

Since this topic came up,I'd been thinking about this. I remember when the Mexican fighters in the late 50's and early 60's were fighting out here. They hadn't won all the Championships that they'd acquire a few years later and also their skills weren't as developed as well. Mostly the left hook to the liver.

But anywhere you went a boxing fan would tell you that Mexican fighters had guts like no other fighters. They'd bleed,get knocked down ,only to get back up and fight again. If you saw a Mexican in the ring you knew you were going to see the toughest breed of fighter on Earth. The Indio Ortegas,Joe Medels,Kid Aztecas. Maybe not Champions,but they had the hearts of Champions.

Were these guys the toughest? Well I disagree. No one ever mentioned their wives. NOW THOSE WOMEN WERE TOUGH!!! Being married to a fighter isn't a walk in the park,but a Mexican fighter? Talk about being able to take it. Grace under pressure. Uncommitted loyalty. These women had greater durabilty than any of the pugs around. They could take it and still raise a family.

So when they talked about the great hearts of the Mexican fighters,they didn't realize these guys were only in the prelims inside their homes.

[kikibalt]

Frank . . . once more I must thank you for posting the pages from Knockout for us to read. This is not my first experience reading this info, Johnny Flores gave me three big boxes of these publications when I was a kid. While my friends read "MAD" magazines, I read Knockout & Referee publications that Flores had given me. This is where I learned a lot about the guys who you were training with after the war. I would take that info and ask questions in the gym and I'd get accurate answers from Flores, Duke Holloway, Rip Roseboro, Tony Marino, Johnny Villaflor, Teo Serrano, Jake Shagrue, Howie Steindler, the Soto Brothers, and many more, including, of course, the boxers. Many of the names were still around, no longer young up & comers, but batttle scarred vets and those who became trainers. Some times the fighter's were bitter, but mainly they were open and spoke with warmth about their past. A few years later, George Parnassus was cleaning out his office and asked if I wanted a couple boxes of "crap" that was headed for the trash. "You bet, I'll take anything you don't want", I answered. I carried this "crap" around for twenty years until my first wife chose to put it where it was destined prior to my rescuing it from Parnassus, in the trash. We were going thru a nasty divorce, I was on a film location, and when I returned my "boxing history publications", were history. Oh well, you don't ever want to underestimate what a pissed off woman might do.

-Ricardo

Rick,

The next KO I'll be posting is from May 29, 1948, front cover, Ike Williams vs Enrique Bolanos II

[Rick Farris]

Rick
About the marraige thing you posted. Well we'll talk in October about this. I'll bring my wife, and Frank and Connie will be there. You made a good move pal. Rog

Looking forward to it, amigo! I think you guys will like Monica, and vice versa. When I get the tickets I'll let you know.

-Rick

Since this topic came up,I'd been thinking about this. I remember when the Mexican fighters in the late 50's and early 60's were fighting out here. They hadn't won all the Championships that they'd acquire a few years later and also their skills weren't as developed as well. Mostly the left hook to the liver.

But anywhere you went a boxing fan would tell you that Mexican fighters had guts like no other fighters. They'd bleed,get knocked down ,only to get back up and fight again. If you saw a Mexican in the ring you knew you were going to see the toughest breed of fighter on Earth. The Indio Ortegas,Joe Medels,Kid Aztecas. Maybe not Champions,but they had the hearts of Champions.

Were these guys the toughest? Well I disagree. No one ever mentioned their wives. NOW THOSE WOMEN WERE TOUGH!!! Being married to a fighter isn't a walk in the park,but a Mexican fighter? Talk about being able to take it. Grace under pressure. Uncommitted loyalty. These women had greater durabilty than any of the pugs around. They could take it and still raise a family.

So when they talked about the great hearts of the Mexican fighters,they didn't realize these guys were only in the prelims inside their homes.

Great post. You know, the women who marry and stay with boxers long after their money and fame are gone should be honored, really! Sylvia Ramos, Bonnie Lopez, El Gato's lady Barbara Cornell, Yolanda Muniz, Carol Navarro, and on & on! I was thinking of this last year, that we at the WBHOF should take a little time to honor these special ladies, not just the women who box, but those who stay with and suport the fighters thru thick and thin. Dagos, I don't know any of these tough Mexican wives, those who were behind the Mexican pugs, but it can also ring true here in Southern Cal, I've seen it. Your post validated a thought I had before, thank you!

-Rick

[kikibalt]

Orlando De La Fuente, Andy "Kid" Heilman, and Tony Herrera, know the gent on the right, but can't think of his name right now. Its no fun getting old.

[kikibalt]

Talk about a lady standing through thick and thin, I give you the beautiful
Mrs. Enrique Bolanos (Ruby),

[dagosd2000]

Talk about a lady standing through thick and thin, I give you the beautiful
Mrs. Enrique Bolanos (Ruby),

Some people say I got a lot of things figured out. Not my relationships with dames. Look at this beautifull lady.Like my wife. Maybe she's too good for me. Makes me feel confident so I go out and do what I want. Dangerous territory.

Frank
When you posted this picture of Mrs. Bolanos a while back,I made a parrallel with Jose Alfredo Jimenez's wife. They look very similar. Style,grace. That's the real beauty. The life Alfresdo's wife had to endure with that guy. I remarked about all the great Mexican Stars giving a tribute to him after he died. Of course his wife sat as guest of honor. The singers and musicians all serenaded her with Jose's songs. I know they wanted to see her cry. She sat there very elegant and beautifull. Then at the end Lola Beltran sang "Mi Esposa". The lady broke down finally. So did I.

[dagosd2000]

Like I said I hadn't been to LA. in a while. April it was Commerce. Friday,Wilmington. You can tell the downward economy has hit these places hard. The jobs and companies that have moved over seas have turned these once prospering communities almost into ghost towns. Signs on buildings reading "For Rent" and "For Lease". A lot of store fronts are boarded up. Geez,it was a Friday afternoon when I got up to Wilmington. It seemed like a Sunday. A lot of places closed. A little store here and there. A bar. In front of the Longshoremen Building there must have been 20 guys languishing around. They looked bored.No movement on the streets.Wilmington is right next to Long Beach. You think the trade would be moving in and out and there'd be a lot of activity.I didn't see one of those big cranes that unload the cargo in action. The big arms hanging there side by side. I passed a flop house called The Wilmington Hotel. Outside it was sunny,the sidewalk empty. Weeds growing up through the cracks along the curb. I heard a radio playing music coming out from the front desk. You could barely hear any sound.

Yeah Dagos, I know what you mean. I get around town quite a bit in my business and like you said, some areas are just different, almost deserted. Downtown, more to the eastside, where the railroad tracks were, there was a lot of industry along the L.A. river, today, the old factories and warehouses have been converted into upscale lofts for the yuppy crowd. Skid Row is now trendy, where there was once a dive bar, stands a Starbucks. Poor damn winos are being pushed outta their neighborhoods. Once, where you only saw winos, drug addicts, street people, transvestites, prostitutes aand crack ho's, etc. around midnight, you have secretarys wearing sexy designer gym attire, walking their dogs. In the old days, you'd never see such a thing around 4th & Main St. at ANY hour, women would be intimidated. Today, they step over the bums, and the street people are on the run. What's the neighborhood coming to?

-Rick

Same with downtown San Diego. They call it the Gaslamp District. Full of overpriced restaurants and loud clubs that play shitty music. Parking after 5 is 30 bucks. The Gaslamp has been around for about 20 years. The store fronts are all these phony facades that try to make these places look a 100 years old. A phony Disneyland. No more Coliseum. No more Carl's Baseball Inn. Tore down Bob Johnston's Sport Palace and the Hollywood Theater next door(last burlesque house in the U.S.). The Mission and Orpheum Theaters,that were originally opera houses ,razed.

But go to the new PetCo Park and you'll get panhandled by all the bums that are living on the edges. Now that's bad for the image.

[dagosd2000]

Frank . . . once more I must thank you for posting the pages from Knockout for us to read. This is not my first experience reading this info, Johnny Flores gave me three big boxes of these publications when I was a kid. While my friends read "MAD" magazines, I read Knockout & Referee publications that Flores had given me. This is where I learned a lot about the guys who you were training with after the war. I would take that info and ask questions in the gym and I'd get accurate answers from Flores, Duke Holloway, Rip Roseboro, Tony Marino, Johnny Villaflor, Teo Serrano, Jake Shagrue, Howie Steindler, the Soto Brothers, and many more, including, of course, the boxers. Many of the names were still around, no longer young up & comers, but batttle scarred vets and those who became trainers. Some times the fighter's were bitter, but mainly they were open and spoke with warmth about their past. A few years later, George Parnassus was cleaning out his office and asked if I wanted a couple boxes of "crap" that was headed for the trash. "You bet, I'll take anything you don't want", I answered. I carried this "crap" around for twenty years until my first wife chose to put it where it was destined prior to my rescuing it from Parnassus, in the trash. We were going thru a nasty divorce, I was on a film location, and when I returned my "boxing history publications", were history. Oh well, you don't ever want to underestimate what a pissed off woman might do.

-Ricardo

Rick,

The next KO I'll be posting is from May 29, 1948, front cover, Ike Williams vs Enrique Bolanos II

You know while Frank is digging out all the memorabilia he has in his attic dating back to Sullivan/Corbett,he's probably eating a Hoagy and finshing off a pepperoni pizza and washing it down with a vanilla shake.

I just had a carrot stick.

[kikibalt]

Jake & Vickie LaMotta

[dagosd2000]

Jake & Vickie LaMotta

Tougher than Jake. Gonna' paint the Raging Bull tomorrow. Came back to this. What an aristocrat. The bib,shrimp cocktails.Probably would have liked to throw the shrimp in with a plate of spaghetti. And then when finished thrown the plate at the waiter. I know he used his sleeve to wipe his mouth.Talk about a guy who did whatever he wanted. Posted this before. When the movie Raging Bull came out,Vickie takes Jake to the theater to see it. After it's over ,Jake turns to her and says,"Gee,was I that bad?"
"No,you were worse."

[dagosd2000]

Jake & Vickie LaMotta

i wonder if she gave him the black eye? I saw LaMotta on a talk show on TV with Mike Tyson when Tyson was killing everybody. Jake's sitting next to him wearing this cowboy hat.(The Dago from the Bronx with the cowboy hat). Jake interrupts what ever Tyson is talking about and says with a big grin,(I think seriously),"You know Mike,you have a voice like a little girl. You're the Heavyweight Champ and you have a little girl's voice."
LaMotta's looking right at Tyson smiling.
You could hear a pin drop. Tyson is fumbling for something to say while Jake is still looking at his face.
"Yes,my voice has always been like that."
Jake slaps Tyson on the back and says,"But you're one hell of a fighter."

[Randyman]

Roger, thanks for the kind words, I'll pass them along to Ed. Ed and his son Ed Jr. ran the PAL gym in Ontario before it closed a few years ago. He has a passion for boxing. It was nice meeting you at Mando's service. if I had realize it was you that painted those pictures I would have said something. great artwork.
Randy De La O