Top Twenty Welterweights Of All Time

[TheOneIsHere2008]

MIKE CASEY'S ALL-TIME TOP 20


01. Sugar Ray Robinson (USA)


02. Henry Armstrong (USA)


03. Jack Britton (USA)


04. Joe Walcott (Barbados)


05. Ted (Kid) Lewis (England)


06. Mickey Walker (USA)


07. Sugar Ray Leonard (USA)


08. Jose Napoles (Cuba/Mexico)


09. Barney Ross (USA)


10. Emile Griffith (Virgin Islands)


11. Packey McFarland (USA)


12. Roberto Duran (Panama)


13. Jimmy McLarnin (Ireland)


14. Kid Gavilan (Cuba)


15. Thomas Hearns (USA)


16. Oscar De La Hoya (USA)


17. Mysterious Billy Smith (Canada)


18. Tommy Ryan (USA)


19. Harry Lewis (USA)


20. Carmen Basilio (USA)


http://www.grandslampage.net/16280.html

[elmersalsa]

As great as Roberto Duran was, TO ME, he does not belong in the top 20 welterweights of all-time. He ONLY had 8 fights there.

Sugar Ray Leonard, Emile Griffith and Kid Gavilan are definately top 5 in the welterweight division all time. They are too low. They should be ranked higher.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

As great as Roberto Duran was, TO ME, he does not belong in the top 20 welterweights of all-time. He ONLY had 8 fights there.

Sugar Ray Leonard, Emile Griffith and Kid Gavilan are definately top 5 in the welterweight division all time. They are too low. They should be ranked higher.

These ratings are subjective...Ring Magazine had Leonard at # 9 of all classes...But there is nothing wrong with opionions if you can back them with facts...

[elmersalsa]

As great as Roberto Duran was, TO ME, he does not belong in the top 20 welterweights of all-time. He ONLY had 8 fights there.

Sugar Ray Leonard, Emile Griffith and Kid Gavilan are definately top 5 in the welterweight division all time. They are too low. They should be ranked higher.

These ratings are subjective...Ring Magazine had Leonard at # 9 of all classes...But there is nothing wrong with opionions if you can back them with facts...

It would be nice to do so. I am a Duran fan, and I think that he did not do enough at 147 to be considered with the top 20 welterweights of all-time.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

As great as Roberto Duran was, TO ME, he does not belong in the top 20 welterweights of all-time. He ONLY had 8 fights there.

Sugar Ray Leonard, Emile Griffith and Kid Gavilan are definately top 5 in the welterweight division all time. They are too low. They should be ranked higher.

These ratings are subjective...Ring Magazine had Leonard at # 9 of all classes...But there is nothing wrong with opionions if you can back them with facts...

It would be nice to do so. I am a Duran fan, and I think that he did not do enough at 147 to be considered with the top 20 welterweights of all-time.

They had Duran at #5 right behind Joe Louis...

[harrygreb]

i rate duran the best lightweight ever - certainly the best I ever saw - but as a welter he does not figure in the top 20

[TheOneIsHere2008]

i rate duran the best lightweight ever - certainly the best I ever saw - but as a welter he does not figure in the top 20

Here's the same person's top twenty lws:

THE LIGHTWEIGHT DIVISION


MIKE CASEY'S ALL-TIME TOP 20


01. Joe Gans (USA)


02. Benny Leonard (USA)


03. Roberto Duran (Panama)


04. Packey McFarland (USA)


05. Henry Armstrong (USA)


06. Freddie Welsh (Wales)


07. Pernell Whitaker (USA)


08. Battling Nelson (Denmark)


09. Tony Canzoneri (USA)


10. Barney Ross (USA)


11. Shane Mosley (USA)


12. Owen Moran (England)


13. Alexis Arguello (Nicaragua)


14. George (Kid) Lavigne (USA)


15. Ad Wolgast (USA)


16. Lew Tendler (USA)


17. Ike Williams (USA)


18. Carlos Ortiz (USA)


19. Lou Ambers (USA)


20. Julio Cesar Chavez (Mexico)

[My2Sense]

Sugar Ray Leonard, Emile Griffith and Kid Gavilan are definately top 5 in the welterweight division all time. They are too low. They should be ranked higher.

Agreed.

[My2Sense]

i rate duran the best lightweight ever - certainly the best I ever saw - but as a welter he does not figure in the top 20

Here's the same person's top twenty lws:

THE LIGHTWEIGHT DIVISION


MIKE CASEY'S ALL-TIME TOP 20


01. Joe Gans (USA)


02. Benny Leonard (USA)


03. Roberto Duran (Panama)


04. Packey McFarland (USA)


05. Henry Armstrong (USA)


06. Freddie Welsh (Wales)


07. Pernell Whitaker (USA)


08. Battling Nelson (Denmark)


09. Tony Canzoneri (USA)


10. Barney Ross (USA)


11. Shane Mosley (USA)


12. Owen Moran (England)


13. Alexis Arguello (Nicaragua)


14. George (Kid) Lavigne (USA)


15. Ad Wolgast (USA)


16. Lew Tendler (USA)


17. Ike Williams (USA)


18. Carlos Ortiz (USA)


19. Lou Ambers (USA)


20. Julio Cesar Chavez (Mexico)

This list is all f*cked up!!

Packey McFarland at #4?? Battling Nelson at 8?? Lew Tendler rated above Ike Williams and Carlos Ortiz??

[Ambling Alp]

That is pretty bad. It's like he knows most of the names, puts them in a hat and draws them out and put's them in that order. Seems like he did the same for welterweight and lightweight.

For lightweights, # 1-4 is very close between Duran,Leonard,Gans,and Armstrong.
After that, it should be something like:

5. Ross
6. Whitaker
7. Welsh
8. McFarland
9. Ambers
10. Williams
11. Ortiz
12. Brown
13. Angott
14. Mandell
15. Canzoneri
16. Jack
17. Montgomery
18. Arguello
19. Wolgast
20. Chavez

There are several guys that you could make an arguement for :
De La hoya,Nelson,Erne,Lavigne,Petrolle,Holly,Blackburn,Camacho, and Moseley.

[elmersalsa]

They had Duran at #5 right behind Joe Louis...

That is the opinion of The Ring, which I do not disagree. That is a pound per pound rating of the last 80 years. Duran was TO ME, and to many people, one of the top 5 greatest fighters ever.

Louis and Duran were out of this world.

[Cap]

Maybe when they make up these lists, they should split them between fighters from the start of the glove era say 1890 to the end of World War 2, and then fighters from 1946 to the present day. A lot of good fighters don't get their due these days.

Cap

[elmersalsa]

Maybe when they make up these lists, they should split them between fighters from the start of the glove era say 1890 to the end of World War 2, and then fighters from 1946 to the present day. A lot of good fighters don't get their due these days.

Cap

You got it right.

[Ezzard]

I think this is a fair list. Jack Britton and Kid Lewis must be 2 of the most overlooked fighters. They beat a lot of very good opponents.

I think that there's a temptation by people (including myself) to throw the 80s Welters in there because they had some dramatic fights and were super-skilled but what these guys achieved at 147 was really special.

Anyone think that Tommy Ryan could rate a little higher?

[granberry]

Nobody who posts here has heard of Tommy Ryan.

[dr_devious]

MIKE CASEY'S ALL-TIME TOP 20


01. Sugar Ray Robinson (USA) - Yes


02. Henry Armstrong (USA) - Probably


03. Jack Britton (USA) - Too high


04. Joe Walcott (Barbados) - Top 10


05. Ted (Kid) Lewis (England) - A bit high, maybe top 10


06. Mickey Walker (USA) - Yes


07. Sugar Ray Leonard (USA) - Too low, top 3


08. Jose Napoles (Cuba/Mexico) - Yes


09. Barney Ross (USA) -


10. Emile Griffith (Virgin Islands) - Should be higher


11. Packey McFarland (USA)


12. Roberto Duran (Panama) - Too high at WW


13. Jimmy McLarnin (Ireland)


14. Kid Gavilan (Cuba) - Too low, top 10


15. Thomas Hearns (USA) - Too low, top 10, maybe top 5


16. Oscar De La Hoya (USA) - Too high


17. Mysterious Billy Smith (Canada)


18. Tommy Ryan (USA)


19. Harry Lewis (USA)


20. Carmen Basilio (USA)


http://www.grandslampage.net/16280.html

[elmersalsa]

MIKE CASEY'S ALL-TIME TOP 20


01. Sugar Ray Robinson (USA)


02. Henry Armstrong (USA)


03. Jack Britton (USA)


04. Joe Walcott (Barbados)


05. Ted (Kid) Lewis (England)


06. Mickey Walker (USA)


07. Sugar Ray Leonard (USA)


08. Jose Napoles (Cuba/Mexico)


09. Barney Ross (USA)


10. Emile Griffith (Virgin Islands)


11. Packey McFarland (USA)


12. Roberto Duran (Panama)


13. Jimmy McLarnin (Ireland)


14. Kid Gavilan (Cuba)


15. Thomas Hearns (USA)


16. Oscar De La Hoya (USA)


17. Mysterious Billy Smith (Canada)


18. Tommy Ryan (USA)


19. Harry Lewis (USA)


20. Carmen Basilio (USA)


http://www.grandslampage.net/16280.html

Oscar De La Hoya at welterweight, better than Carmen Basilio?

De La Hoya does not belong in the class of the great welterweights. He did not do enough.

Felix "Tito" Trinidad deserves more consideration than De La Hoya of the welterweight greats

Packey MacFarland fought in DIFFERENT CLASSES in his career.


This is very a SORRY LIST. Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Jackie Fields, Lou Brouillard, Tony DeMarco nor Young Corbett III are not in.

Was De La Hoya better than those guys mentioned above at 147 pounds?

[p4p1]

DLH achieved more at other weights

[Ambling Alp]

Here is my top 20 List for welterweights:

1. Ray Robinson
2. Ray Leonard
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Barney Ross
5. Kid Gavilan
6. Jose Napoles
7. Emile Griffith
8. Thomas Hearns
9. Jimmy McClarnin
10. Jack Britton
11. Ted Kid Lewis
12. Roberto Duran
13. Joe Walcott
14. Luis Rodriguez
15. Carmen Basilio
16. Oscar De La Hoya
17. Felix Trinidad
18. Pernell Whitaker
19. Charley Burley
20. Tommy Ryan

Wilfred Benitez was great at this weight, and I used to rank him there, but he only had 7 fights at this weight. A few more and I would have.

Honorable Mention-
Billy Graham
Young Corbett III
Fritzie Zivic
Jackie Fields
Donald Curry
Ike Quartey
Marty Servo
Mickey Walker

[Ezzard]

Here is my top 20 List for welterweights:

1. Ray Robinson
2. Ray Leonard
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Barney Ross
5. Kid Gavilan
6. Jose Napoles
7. Emile Griffith
8. Thomas Hearns
9. Jimmy McClarnin
10. Jack Britton
11. Ted Kid Lewis
12. Roberto Duran
13. Joe Walcott
14. Luis Rodriguez
15. Carmen Basilio
16. Oscar De La Hoya
17. Felix Trinidad
18. Pernell Whitaker
19. Charley Burley
20. Tommy Ryan

Wilfred Benitez was great at this weight, and I used to rank him there, but he only had 7 fights at this weight. A few more and I would have.

Honorable Mention-
Billy Graham
Young Corbett III
Fritzie Zivic
Jackie Fields
Donald Curry
Ike Quartey
Marty Servo
Mickey Walker

I know how strict you are on only counting figths at a weight. I guess this is why Walker doesn't make your top 20. Do Cuevas and Palomino deserve honourable mentions too?

[Ambling Alp]

Walker, was a much better middleweight than he was a welterweight.
At welterweight, he didn't really beat anyone (outside of a 37 year old Britton)that compares to who the guys in the top 20 beat. He had some losses to ordinary fighters. He lost the title to Pete Latzo, who wasn't exactly a legend. If he would have retired after that and never fought at middleweight, he would barely be remembered at all.

It's what Walker did at middleweight (he also did remarkably well against lightheavyweights and heavyweights) that established him as an ATG.
If you take a hard look at what Walker actually did at welterweight, you will see that he is way overrated by many people at that weight.

I don't think Palomino was quite as good as the guys I listed at honorable mention, but I suppose it's arguable. I don't think Cuevas was quite as good as Palomino, but again that is arguable. (We once had a thread about Palomino and Cuevas).
You just have to draw a line somewhere.

[Ezzard]

Walker, was a much better middleweight than he was a welterweight.
At welterweight, he didn't really beat anyone (outside of a 37 year old Britton)that compares to who the guys in the top 20 beat. He had some losses to ordinary fighters. He lost the title to Pete Latzo, who wasn't exactly a legend. If he would have retired after that and never fought at middleweight, he would barely be remembered at all.

It's what Walker did at middleweight (he also did remarkably well against lightheavyweights and heavyweights) that established him as an ATG.
If you take a hard look at what Walker actually did at welterweight, you will see that he is way overrated by many people at that weight.

I don't think Palomino was quite as good as the guys I listed at honorable mention, but I suppose it's arguable. I don't think Cuevas was quite as good as Palomino, but again that is arguable. (We once had a thread about Palomino and Cuevas).
You just have to draw a line somewhere.

Of course, just wanted to throw a few names at you...

[elmersalsa]

You also got De La Hoya and Duran as top welterweight greats? Come on Ambling Alp...How could that be, sir?...I don't get it.

I need an explanation.

It surprises me how a guy like Ambling Alp has Duran and De La Hoya ranked with the welter greats.

[Ambling Alp]

I weigh at all of the fights that a fighter had at welterweight. I didn't just cherrypick one or two great or bad performances and rate the fighter soley on that.
I block out my personal feelings as to whether I like or dislike a fighter. If you do that, you have Duran and De La Hoya in the Top 20.

[elmersalsa]

I weigh at all of the fights that a fighter had at welterweight. I didn't just cherrypick one or two great or bad performances and rate the fighter soley on that.
I block out my personal feelings as to whether I like or dislike a fighter. If you do that, you have Duran and De La Hoya in the Top 20.

In this judgement of your views of welterweight greats Alp, it surprised me that you got Duran and De La Hoya as welter top greats. Both of them COMBINED don't even reach to 20 bouts between them at 147lbs.

Luis Manuel Rodriguez and Charley Burley for example, were welterweights ALMOST their whole career, beat better fighters and had much much more fights at 147. At least they beat a more variety of great boxers. Something that Duran and DLH did not do much.

The Ring Magazine had ranked Duran at #20 top welterweight. For as much that I am a Duran fan, and love the guy, I CANNOT SEE HIM not even in the top 30 welterweights. Neither DLH. They did not had too many fights there.