Froch condemns 'Bottle job' opponents

[Coco]

Would any one be really suprised if Inkin has his shot before Froch?

[twenty six]

Well many posters supposedly in the know where Hennessey are concerned have said in no uncertain terms that money is no issue.
If that were the case, why did Meaty Mick only offer $750,000 for the Taylor fight, with the condition Froch was the home fighter ?
Even I knew that that was never going to seal the fight.
You have to take Promotors / Fighters into unknown territory, if you think they are avoiding you.
By making this offer, Hennessey have played straight into Di Bellas hands.
I can see it now - Di Bella - $750k ?
My man wont get out of bed for that amount.
I can double that and more for a fight with Lacy, and not need a passport !

[MightyWarrior]

Mighty,
Just answer me this mate.
Hand on heart, assuming you were able to see in the future, tell me what fights Carl will have between now and July 2009 under the Henessey banner.
Then consider again, if he were to change Promotor.
Would you get the same answer, a better answer by staying with Hennessey, or a better answer with another Promotor ?
Carl is no longer a spring chicken (31).
If he is the real deal then I want to see it NOW. I do believe his defensive frailties will be exposed at the higher level.
However I will be delighted to be proved wrong.
I dont want another if only story.

I think he'll likely get a WBC shot by then. And I'd say Mick does have influence where the WBC are concerned, Witter got his shot, and he's got Froch installed as WBC #1 contender - not bad when you consider that Carl hasn't actually beaten a top ten contender to get there.
That means he's going to be mandatory, and like it or not, Taylor and co are going to have to face him.

[fatboy2008]

Mighty,
Just answer me this mate.
Hand on heart, assuming you were able to see in the future, tell me what fights Carl will have between now and July 2009 under the Henessey banner.
Then consider again, if he were to change Promotor.
Would you get the same answer, a better answer by staying with Hennessey, or a better answer with another Promotor ?
Carl is no longer a spring chicken (31).
If he is the real deal then I want to see it NOW. I do believe his defensive frailties will be exposed at the higher level.
However I will be delighted to be proved wrong.
I dont want another if only story.

Twenty Six,

Its all about money, as I have already mentioned Froch is getting paid very well indeed by Hennessy, a lot more than some fighters with other promoters. Froch is the number fighter for Hennessy Promotions and gets the perks that go with that. So money for Froch is not an issue here and even if he were to win the WBC belt I just don't see American TV being interested at this stage. The bigger money will come from a European Clash with Kessler or something like that.

With regards to getting World Title shots, I am sure you and other ardent boxing fans know it comes down to whether your face fits and you are prepared to pay the extortinate sanctioning fees that some of the governing bodies charge. Are you as a promoter willing to be extra nice to the governing bodies or will you only do things the proper way, if you do it like that then be prepared for a long wait, what on earth am I suggesting!!!

You seem to be very harsh on Froch at the moment, you mention someone like Warren. I will then throw 2 names at you to say other than paying them very well what else did he do for them until they demanded it. Hatton and Calzaghe. The endless WBU defences in Hatton's case and the hideously boring WBO defences in the case of Calzaghe, it only the last couple of years he has decided to pull out his finger and fight decent opponents, why??, because he is financially secure and can afford to take the risks!!

Time and time again on these forums, people blame the promoters, that should not always be the case. What about the fighter demanding the promoter produces the goods or he is off to another promoter, no they do not do it because they are happy with what they are getting paid and they enjoy the hype that surrounds them fighting mediocre opponents and getting paid a kings wage for doing so.

Twenty Six, in the case of Hatton and Calzaghe they left Warren because they were financially secure and greed has taken over, bollocks to all this legacy shit they spout, they want a bigger slice of the cake. Froch does not need to do that at the moment, if Hennessy has secured a TV contract with ITV they can afford to build up the bullshit hype and calling out opponents here there and everywhere whilst the media spout this is a really dangerous opponent, the public believe it, Froch becomes a bigger name and the bank manager is happy. Tocker Pudwill is called in, the media spout he is a world beater and Froch is steadily making an even bigger name for himself because the general public haven't got a f ucking clue.

I suppose I could have written the above in one line and that is Hennessy is doing a very good job for Froch because Froch is getting richer and richer through what Hennessy is paying him and fighting mediocre opponents.

[Autobarn]

Well many posters supposedly in the know where Hennessey are concerned have said in no uncertain terms that money is no issue.
If that were the case, why did Meaty Mick only offer $750,000 for the Taylor fight, with the condition Froch was the home fighter ?
Even I knew that that was never going to seal the fight.
You have to take Promotors / Fighters into unknown territory, if you think they are avoiding you.
By making this offer, Hennessey have played straight into Di Bellas hands.
I can see it now - Di Bella - $750k ?
My man wont get out of bed for that amount.
I can double that and more for a fight with Lacy, and not need a passport !

DiBella didn't make a counter offer. It's all part of the game, called negotiating.

[twenty six]

I'm not stupid Autobarn - but you're missing the point.
This offer is derisory.
Di Bella will be pissing himself because Hennessey have given him the perfect excuse NOT to negotiate.

[hitman_hatton1]

Twenty Six, in the case of Hatton and Calzaghe they left Warren because they were financially secure and greed has taken over, bollocks to all this legacy shit they spout, they want a bigger slice of the cake. Froch does not need to do that at the moment

obviously money was a big factor.

but in hatton's case i don't believe it was solely about money.

i think he wanted to be loyal to warren but was let down one too many times.

and yes froch does need to stop being loyal.

he needs a serious move on and needs to think thru his options.

u only get 1 shot at it.

[Autobarn]

It does look like a hiding to nothing, getting Taylor to come to the UK. Didn't he want about $10m to fight Calzaghe? Yes, Taylor used to make big money fighting Kassim Ouma and Cory Spinks etc etc while he was middleweight champ. It'd be nice if Hennessy and DiBella would just go to purse bids & determine where they fight.

Like what has been mentioned before, it looks like Hennessy's fighters will have to fight away/on a hostile promotion, get the win, and then get big. We've seen David Haye do this, for instance.

Hopefully Lacy loses vs Mendoza, but then Taylor will probably go for Mendoza or Brian Vera. HBO have been dumb with the money threy've throw around for Taylor (apart from trying to make a Wright rematch when it mattered) and continue to be so. Taylor v lacy does nothing, proves nothing, solves nothing. It's a big fight that never was, and never should be.

[Axe]

It must be very frustrating for froch .. and hes not getting any younger .. I`d hate it if he only achieved what Witter did - A very short reign as a belt holder

Froch will be lucky if he achieved what Witter did...and forget about the fact that 168 is completely empty nowadays.

[Maelstrom]

Twenty Six, in the case of Hatton and Calzaghe they left Warren because they were financially secure and greed has taken over, bollocks to all this legacy shit they spout, they want a bigger slice of the cake. Froch does not need to do that at the moment

obviously money was a big factor.

but in hatton's case i don't believe it was solely about money.

i think he wanted to be loyal to warren but was let down one too many times.

and yes froch does need to stop being loyal.

he needs a serious move on and needs to think thru his options.

u only get 1 shot at it.

How did Warren let Hatton down? By earning him milions more than his talent deserved and getting him Tszyu at bang on the right time.

Of course it was ALL about the money. That is all the Hattons are about.

[hitman_hatton1]

Twenty Six, in the case of Hatton and Calzaghe they left Warren because they were financially secure and greed has taken over, bollocks to all this legacy shit they spout, they want a bigger slice of the cake. Froch does not need to do that at the moment

obviously money was a big factor.

but in hatton's case i don't believe it was solely about money.

i think he wanted to be loyal to warren but was let down one too many times.

and yes froch does need to stop being loyal.

he needs a serious move on and needs to think thru his options.

u only get 1 shot at it.

How did Warren let Hatton down? By earning him milions more than his talent deserved and getting him Tszyu at bang on the right time.

Of course it was ALL about the money. That is all the Hattons are about.

i didn't say he let him down where money was concerned.

although hatton was offered a better deal elsewhere after the tszyu fight and took it.

there were other factors that hatton explained in his book.

get reading.

anyway it doesn't take away from the fact that froch is currently going nowhere.

hatton was only in his early to mid 20's during those wbu defences years.

[Chambers2]

...and forget about the fact that 168 is completely empty nowadays.

Thats harsh on the boys at 168 IMO I think it's a good division with plenty coming through

Kessler, Bute, Mundine, Froch, Andrade, Berrio, Green, Dirrell, Taylor, Pavlik(?), Inkin, Miranda, Pascal, Ward

[Autobarn]

It must be very frustrating for froch .. and hes not getting any younger .. I`d hate it if he only achieved what Witter did - A very short reign as a belt holder

Froch will be lucky if he achieved what Witter did...and forget about the fact that 168 is completely empty nowadays.

Well, he's got a good four years to do what Witter did hasn't he?

Witter was WBC mandatory & had to wait, Froch is WBC #1 and is being made to wait, also due to pullouts of opponents.

[hitman_hatton1]

...and forget about the fact that 168 is completely empty nowadays.

Thats harsh on the boys at 168 IMO I think it's a good division with plenty coming through

Kessler, Bute, Mundine, Froch, Andrade, Berrio, Green, Dirrell, Taylor, Pavlik(?), Inkin, Miranda, Pascal, Ward

yeah that division is looking real good at the moment.

just the american prospects alone make it interesting.

watch out for dirrell.

[Everton FC]

Pascal and Ward will be the ones to watch for in this division!! I think both would beat Froch now!!

[THEBUTCH]

Super middle is strong division on the world scene at the momemt. Most of those contenders mentioned are better than most of calzaghe's challengers.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Mighty,
Just answer me this mate.
Hand on heart, assuming you were able to see in the future, tell me what fights Carl will have between now and July 2009 under the Henessey banner.
Then consider again, if he were to change Promotor.
Would you get the same answer, a better answer by staying with Hennessey, or a better answer with another Promotor ?
Carl is no longer a spring chicken (31).
If he is the real deal then I want to see it NOW. I do believe his defensive frailties will be exposed at the higher level.
However I will be delighted to be proved wrong.
I dont want another if only story.

Twenty Six,

Its all about money, as I have already mentioned Froch is getting paid very well indeed by Hennessy, a lot more than some fighters with other promoters. Froch is the number fighter for Hennessy Promotions and gets the perks that go with that. So money for Froch is not an issue here and even if he were to win the WBC belt I just don't see American TV being interested at this stage. The bigger money will come from a European Clash with Kessler or something like that.

With regards to getting World Title shots, I am sure you and other ardent boxing fans know it comes down to whether your face fits and you are prepared to pay the extortinate sanctioning fees that some of the governing bodies charge. Are you as a promoter willing to be extra nice to the governing bodies or will you only do things the proper way, if you do it like that then be prepared for a long wait, what on earth am I suggesting!!!

You seem to be very harsh on Froch at the moment, you mention someone like Warren. I will then throw 2 names at you to say other than paying them very well what else did he do for them until they demanded it. Hatton and Calzaghe. The endless WBU defences in Hatton's case and the hideously boring WBO defences in the case of Calzaghe, it only the last couple of years he has decided to pull out his finger and fight decent opponents, why??, because he is financially secure and can afford to take the risks!!

Time and time again on these forums, people blame the promoters, that should not always be the case. What about the fighter demanding the promoter produces the goods or he is off to another promoter, no they do not do it because they are happy with what they are getting paid and they enjoy the hype that surrounds them fighting mediocre opponents and getting paid a kings wage for doing so.

Twenty Six, in the case of Hatton and Calzaghe they left Warren because they were financially secure and greed has taken over, bollocks to all this legacy shit they spout, they want a bigger slice of the cake. Froch does not need to do that at the moment, if Hennessy has secured a TV contract with ITV they can afford to build up the bullshit hype and calling out opponents here there and everywhere whilst the media spout this is a really dangerous opponent, the public believe it, Froch becomes a bigger name and the bank manager is happy. Tocker Pudwill is called in, the media spout he is a world beater and Froch is steadily making an even bigger name for himself because the general public haven't got a f ucking clue.

I suppose I could have written the above in one line and that is Hennessy is doing a very good job for Froch because Froch is getting richer and richer through what Hennessy is paying him and fighting mediocre opponents.

Quite right, it's the fighter who has the responsibility, not the promoter, if a fighter doesn't like it, they can leave when their contract expires. Hatton did very very well under Warren, as did Calzaghe. Nobody forced the two of them to defend their baubles against crap 'contenders?', they chose to do it.

You think Calzaghe and Hatton were constantly complaining about getting fat paydays for fighting at home against people they knew they could beat? Do you think Hatton complained when he got an aging Tszyu to come over and fight him at Ricky's home stadium with a pretty sympathetic ref? Or Calzaghe when he got record crowds agaisnt Manfredo and Kessler?

[Autobarn]

Dirrell is a very strange fighter. He has the ability to knock guys out, but could well end up like another Raheem or Gainer. His fight with Curtis Stephens is a disagrace that no one who saw will forget.

Definitely an interesting division still.

I think Froch will batter Pascal. But is Froch-Pascal a good enough bout for the vacant WBC title? Maybe.


Re Hennessy: things are moving slowly, but maybe he's getting too much stick. I had my complaints about how John Murray's career was being handled - until the last fight. OK so he lacks the clout right now and Froch's world title chance is coming - albeit slowly. But some would say Warren lacked the clout until the past few years, certainly the clout he has now.

Anyone remember when Showtime signed a TV deal with Warren and regretted it, because of the quality of the fights? (Because of deals like this, with other promoters also, Showtime changed their policy to fight by fight deals so that promoters had to impress them, with quality matchups). Remember after Calzaghe vs Starie (or was it Reid), when then Showtime head Jay Larkin said that Calzaghe wasn't ready for any big fights?

Frank's the biggest promoter in the UK, I think he had a piece of all the Brits who held super middleweight titles in the late '90s, but could he make the biggest fights (Jones Jr, Hopkins, even Frankie Liles)? He did match Joe shrewdly at times, but he only got good fighters in AFTER they had lost their titles, Brewer, Mitchell & so on. Was this not a bit of a bargain basement title reign?

Warren certainly had the clout to get Joe ranked with the WBO, and it made him some money, but don't forget this was a very, very marginal title reign until March, 2006. Just thought I'd give all this a little mention. Warren hasn't been making Calzaghe-Kessler, Manfredo, Lacy, & hatton-Tszyu sized fights/events consistently in the last decade, has he?

Hennessy is one fight away from Froch being WBC champ, and maybe two fights away from making Froch vs Jermain Taylor. Yes, there are difficulties (weren't there difficulties making Calzaghe-Kessler), but surely he can deliver.

Also, tell me how Warren will get Froch a world title fight sooner than Mick. When Calzaghe still has the effing WBO title.

[Gray-Fox]

What happened in Dirrel's fight with Stephens Autobarn?

[Autobarn]

Run, run, as fast as you can...That's what happened. And Dirrell wasn't een embarrassed about it.

[Autobarn]

I suppose I could have written the above in one line and that is Hennessy is doing a very good job for Froch because Froch is getting richer and richer through what Hennessy is paying him and fighting mediocre opponents.

Hang on a sec though. You make that sound really cynical. The whole plan wasn't to pay Froch lots of money to fight mediocre guys, was it? The plan A fights have been good, but ppl keep ducking & it keeps coming back to plan B i.e. sit and wait, or blast out a substitute.

The plan was for Froch vs Inkin and now it's for Froch vs Taylor. In other words, the aim is to compete for a world title, in a proper fight, and to get paid well for it.

I got the impression that Froch didn't want to sign with Warren and fight cream cakes for a glorified British belt.

So the intention on the Hennessy/Froch side would seem to be honourable. It's just that when ppl actively avoid the fights, it arrests the career of Froch. Froch is the WBC #1, so he'll get his chance. If Witter did, Froch will.

IMO Hennessy seems to need the breakthrough fights that will announce his stable big time. Obviously Froch-Calzaghe, Witter-Harris, Thaxton-Khan all came to nothing. If Taylor beats Lacy in Nov, hopefully he will face Froch for the WBC.

[Shirow]

I see that Inkin has just outpointed a 7 fight novice over 6 rounds. I trust Carl will be eating his words in regards to Denis.

[Chambers2]

From the general forum

It's being reported by Radio-Canada and RDS that Carl Froch and Jean Pascal will fight for the vacant WBC title. This should be confirmed tommorow (friday) in a press conference.

[hitman_hatton1]

Run, run, as fast as you can...That's what happened. And Dirrell wasn't een embarrassed about it.

i think people go overboard on that fight.

i accept it wasn't exciting.

and at times dirrell was too negative.

but he also effectively stuck and move and won rds against a tough slugger in stevens.

the hanshaw fight showed he can blast good fighters and is for real.

lennox lewis said as much in the commentary.

he did what he had to do.

[Pugilist-specialist]

Autobarn
Witter - Harris didn't come to nothing . Witter KO'd him.
Khan - Thaxton only came to nothing because Khan pulled out on the eve of purse bids