Is Lennox Lewis A Top Ten Heavyweight?

[wouter]

Lewis looses to every single one of these opponents. And if Lewis fought in the 70's he would carry the same status as a Chuck Wepner or a Richard Dunn - a journeyman.

In a best of 3-series I'd take Lennox Lewis over Dunn. As for Wepner he's a little bit too skilled and tough for Lennox.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

LEWIS GOT KNOCKED OUT BY TWO BUMS in his prime. Now, he would have beaten Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield and Buster Douglas at their very best?

I cannot see a guy that have one of the weakest chins in boxing history beat skilled and hard hitting fighters like Bowe, Tyson or Holyfield. Buster Douglas in Tokyo that night would have beaten any great heavyweight fighter in history. The problem with Buster was that he was A LAZY FIGHTER WITH GREAT TALENT. HE DID NOT LIKE TO TRAIN. He had all the physical attributes of a great heavyweight: Tall, great jab, great mobility, speed, decent stamina if trained hard, better chin than given credit for, and could outhink his opponent, plus can hit hard.

But if you put Douglas in Tokyo against any version of Lennox Lewis and Buster wins...Probably by KO, too.
The Tyson that demolished the great Michael Spinks and Trevor Berbick would have eaten Lennox for dinner.
The Riddick Bowe that fought magnificently against Holyfield the first time, was exceptional. I cannot see Lennox in his best day beating Bowe that night.

And Holyfield in his prime? Once Holy is all over him, forget it...Lennox cannot take those shots.

Lennox Lewis was a great heavyweight by his accomplishments, but if I judge him by his talent, he was ORDINARY LIKE ANY ONE ELSE. He was nothing to be HIGH about.

Does that mean Buster would have beat Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Jack Johnson, Evander Holyfield, and Rocky Marciano if they came to fight that night?

[oliverfennell]

Yiddo14,

I just can't agree with what you're syaing there:
"Lewis never ducked anyone. In his generation of step aside money, that was an achievement in itself!"

Rest assured, he did duck fighters, it was a terrible habit of his... 2000 would've been around Lewis prime, and even then he wasn't a soul-destroying fighter, (the likes of which Ali, Louis, Marciano are).

In 1999, (following his victory over Holyfield) he relinquished his WBA title so that he wouldn't have to fight John Ruiz.
In 2002, (following his victory over a tired, old Tyson0 he relinquished his IBF title so that he wouldn't have to fight Chris Byrd.

PLUS, In those 3 years between 2000-03, he never once made an effort to fight Wladimir Klitchsko.

However, later when he had to fight Vitali, he won by a referree stoappage (while some people, myself included had Klitchsko ahead).

THEN, the WBC demanded a rematch and what does Lewis do? He chickens out... "I'm retiring is the excuse".

Lewis would have enver fought a prime, destructive Tyson because Lewis would have got KO'd... He had enough courage to dfeat aon old version of the fighter though... Hardly "the lion" which he became later known as.

And he didn't have no promblem in fighting a soft Frank Bruno, but he would stay well away from Tyson.

The vidence ios there, all you have to do is look for it... Lewis was a media darling, who's profile (and "greatness") was bumped-up by the British Media looking for a new champion whom they could glory in (following the retirement of Chris Eubank and the downfall of Prince Naseem).

No, he wouldn;t make my top 10.

`
Bowe ditched his WBC belt in the bin rather than fight Lewis and instead defended against Dokes. 'Nuff said.

Tyson ditched the same WBC belt when Lewis was his mandatory and instead went after the fearsome Seldon.

Wlad Klitschko was on the radar for a Lewis fight until he got splattered by Sanders.

And finally, to say Lewis "ducked" Ruiz and Byrd is laughable, when he took on better fighters the public wanted to see him in against instead of enforced mandatories that nobody wanted.

[oliverfennell]

Riddick Bowe gets way too much respect on here. His best over performance was basically a shoot out against a guy he outweighed by 30 pounds. If Holyfield had true heavyweight power, it's quite possibly that he would stopped Bowe, as he nearly did at the end of the tenth.

If he had the same ref as worked Lewis-McCall I in the Bowe rubber match, he WOULD have stopped him! Bowe was in worse shape rising from the Holyfield knockdown than Lewis was rising from the McCall one.

[bennie]

Let me tell you something about Lennox Lewis which surprised me. I was seated a few feet from him at the MEN Arena in Manchester in 2006. I think it was at the Calzaghe-Lacy fight; oh hang on, it was the Calzaghe-Sakio Bika fight. Lewis was doing some commentating for American-TV. He walked to ringside, with one minder and looking fat and wearing a silly long suit. Nobody in the big crowd raised an eyebrow. I was stunned. This was a former world heavyweight champion, here. As the evening ensued, I occasionally glanced at Lewis in an attempt to locate something special off the man, and there was nothing. Nothing! God knows why he brought a minder to ringside? He just switched people off.
Lewis is a good guy and was a good fighter - on his A-game - but my wheelie bin has more charisma.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RB6KjXIf5A


Hmmmmmm

[BoxBuzz]

Cmon....that's just called "catching the emotional wave of the moment" and going a bit far with your words. It may not be exactly how George continued to feel as days, months, years passed. Though that moment certainly deserved praise and recognition.

[Diamond WEAPON]

Cmon....that's just called "catching the emotional wave of the moment" and going a bit far with your words. It may not be exactly how George continued to feel as days, months, years passed. Though that moment certainly deserved praise and recognition.

Yeah exactly, plus George's whole argument was based on the fact that Lewis fought in a very competitive era and managed to beat everyone he'd ever stepped in the ring with, even if two took rematches to get him to that point, on some level that gives a little legitimacy to George's excited exclamation.

[Klee Gluckman]

He beat everyone he faced. He is a three time heavyweight champion. However he never fought a great in thier primes. I give him credit for beating Tyson and Holyfield but the second Holyfield fight was close and Tyson was shot when he fought Lewis.

Its a shame the nineties had the potential to be the best heavywieght period ever but too many fights did not eventuate for varied reasons.

That said the heavyweight division was far better than the nonsense we have now.

Lewis ko 4 Wlad
Tyson ko 3 Wlad
Holyfield UD Wlad wlad down 3 times
Bowe ko 6 Wlad
Tua ko9 Wlad
Ike Ko 6 Wlad
Foreman Ko 10 wlad

[elmersalsa]

LEWIS GOT KNOCKED OUT BY TWO BUMS in his prime. Now, he would have beaten Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield and Buster Douglas at their very best?

I cannot see a guy that have one of the weakest chins in boxing history beat skilled and hard hitting fighters like Bowe, Tyson or Holyfield. Buster Douglas in Tokyo that night would have beaten any great heavyweight fighter in history. The problem with Buster was that he was A LAZY FIGHTER WITH GREAT TALENT. HE DID NOT LIKE TO TRAIN. He had all the physical attributes of a great heavyweight: Tall, great jab, great mobility, speed, decent stamina if trained hard, better chin than given credit for, and could outhink his opponent, plus can hit hard.

But if you put Douglas in Tokyo against any version of Lennox Lewis and Buster wins...Probably by KO, too.
The Tyson that demolished the great Michael Spinks and Trevor Berbick would have eaten Lennox for dinner.
The Riddick Bowe that fought magnificently against Holyfield the first time, was exceptional. I cannot see Lennox in his best day beating Bowe that night.

And Holyfield in his prime? Once Holy is all over him, forget it...Lennox cannot take those shots.

Lennox Lewis was a great heavyweight by his accomplishments, but if I judge him by his talent, he was ORDINARY LIKE ANY ONE ELSE. He was nothing to be HIGH about.

Does that mean Buster would have beat Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Jack Johnson, Evander Holyfield, and Rocky Marciano if they came to fight that night?

Yes, Buster Douglas that night would have beaten any heavyweight in history, including the very greats. His performance in Tokyo was one of the very best that I have ever seen in my 30 years of watching boxing.

[elmersalsa]

LEWIS GOT KNOCKED OUT BY TWO BUMS in his prime. Now, he would have beaten Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield and Buster Douglas at their very best?

I cannot see a guy that have one of the weakest chins in boxing history beat skilled and hard hitting fighters like Bowe, Tyson or Holyfield. Buster Douglas in Tokyo that night would have beaten any great heavyweight fighter in history. The problem with Buster was that he was A LAZY FIGHTER WITH GREAT TALENT. HE DID NOT LIKE TO TRAIN. He had all the physical attributes of a great heavyweight: Tall, great jab, great mobility, speed, decent stamina if trained hard, better chin than given credit for, and could outhink his opponent, plus can hit hard.

But if you put Douglas in Tokyo against any version of Lennox Lewis and Buster wins...Probably by KO, too.
The Tyson that demolished the great Michael Spinks and Trevor Berbick would have eaten Lennox for dinner.
The Riddick Bowe that fought magnificently against Holyfield the first time, was exceptional. I cannot see Lennox in his best day beating Bowe that night.

And Holyfield in his prime? Once Holy is all over him, forget it...Lennox cannot take those shots.

Lennox Lewis was a great heavyweight by his accomplishments, but if I judge him by his talent, he was ORDINARY LIKE ANY ONE ELSE. He was nothing to be HIGH about.

Riddick Bowe gets way too much respect on here. His best over performance was basically a shoot out against a guy he outweighed by 30 pounds. If Holyfield had true heavyweight power, it's quite possibly that he would stopped Bowe, as he nearly did at the end of the tenth.

Bowe was outboxed and beaten up twice by C-level fighter Andrew Golota, who Lewis knocked out in a round. Bowe came within a whisker of being knocked out by a version of Evander Holyfield who was suffering from hepatitis B and had no energy or strength, yet you argue that Lennox has no chin.

Buster Dougles put in a sublime performance against an overweight Tyson but did little else in his career to demonstrate that he could beat Lewis.

And the fact that Lennox did not stop Holyfield in the first fight when he had him in trouble is a sign of his cautious tactics, not of his lack of talent.

Buster Douglas in Tokyo was excellent, one of the best performances in boxing history that I have ever seen. We cannot nothing away from him beating the great Mike Tyson.

Lennox Lewis has no chin...Can't you see that? He got KO'd by two bums.

Riddick Bowe was a terrific heavyweight. He was just another lazy guy like Buster Douglas, Hector "Macho" Camacho or Wilfred Benitez that did not like to train. That night with Holyfield, THE FIRST FIGHT, he showed that he had lots of skill. He could fight well in the inside for a big man, could box, can punch and could also take a punch. He took the best shots that Holy threw, and had the performance of his lifetime...Lennox could not take those shots...no way.

[dr_devious]

I've got Lewis at number 7 in my list.........he did everything extremely well and was huge for a heavyweight. He beat everybody he faced, slipped up badly a couple of times, but avenged those defeats emphatically. He was the best heavyweight in a relatively strong era, and never lost when his mind was right.

[dempseyfire]

The late 90s/early 2000s seem stronger now than they were b/c the current division is so bad.

Botha, Grant, Tua, Rahman, shot Tyson, Akinwande?

The fact that he managed to even lose to the ordinary Rahman is a pretty big mark on him. He got robbed vs Evander in the first fight but lost a close one on my card to a pretty past it Real Deal.

In the early-mid 90s the division was better and he managed to knock out some top contenders in Morrison, Ruddock, and Bruno. But he got sparked by McCall and barely sqeezed by Mercer.

Holmes gets critiqued for having weak comp but I'd put Norton, Shavers, Berbick, Witherspoon, and Cooney over Ruddock, Tua, Grant, old Holyfield, Morrison etc.

Even Carl Williams who I think beat a 35 year old Holmes was much better than Hasim Rahman who knocked out a 35 year old Lennox.

Hell, Lewis was stunned and fatigued vs the extremely akward and unimpressive pressure fighter Mavoric. How would he deal with a Renaldo Snipes?

[SteveO]

LEWIS GOT KNOCKED OUT BY TWO BUMS in his prime.

Neither of them could manage to do a second time though :-)

[TheOneIsHere2008]

In have Lennox anywhere from eight to eleven...

[Collins2000]

Riddick Bowe gets way too much respect on here. His best over performance was basically a shoot out against a guy he outweighed by 30 pounds. If Holyfield had true heavyweight power, it's quite possibly that he would stopped Bowe, as he nearly did at the end of the tenth.

If he had the same ref as worked Lewis-McCall I in the Bowe rubber match, he WOULD have stopped him! Bowe was in worse shape rising from the Holyfield knockdown than Lewis was rising from the McCall one.

Did Bowe stumble forward into the ref?

[yiddo14]

Buster Douglas being a "great" is bullshit talk from Tyson lovers who try and justify the fact Tyson got outboxed and beat up by a grade B Heavyweight whilst in his prime.

A prime Buster Douglas would not even dominate todays Heavyweight division, let alone beat ANY Heavyweight great in history

[yiddo14]

Incidently, Lewis did NOT lost to two "bums" in my opinion.

Sure, he should never have lost to these two(imagine if he had not...)and it was purely his own fault that he did by not taking either seriously(and the ref in the McCall fight being far too eager to call it off)BUT, how anyone can call McCall and Rahman "bums" is beyond me(especially from someone who brings up their 30 years as a big fight fan)

Oliver McCall was Heavyweight Champion Of The World. He defended once and also managed to have another shot at the title.

Hasim Rahman is a TWO TIME Heavyweight Champion Of The World.
Neither can be called a bum. That, agai is bullshit talk trying to take away form Lewis' achievements.
In their prime, both were competing at world class level..."bums" don't do that.

Lewis' chin was not bad at all, infact it was rather good. Holyfield, Tyson and Bowe visited the canvas on more occasions than Lewis did, and Lewis fought all the big punchers of his era.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4SQmxIP5Bk
Whoever thinks Lewis had a glass chin please watch this video...Herbie Hide had/has a glass chin, Lennox Lewis certainly did not.

[Collins2000]

Incidently, Lewis did NOT lost to two "bums" in my opinion.

Sure, he should never have lost to these two(imagine if he had not...)and it was purely his own fault that he did by not taking either seriously(and the ref in the McCall fight being far too eager to call it off)BUT, how anyone can call McCall and Rahman "bums" is beyond me(especially from someone who brings up their 30 years as a big fight fan)

Oliver McCall was Heavyweight Champion Of The World. He defended once and also managed to have another shot at the title.

Hasim Rahman is a TWO TIME Heavyweight Champion Of The World. Neither can be called a bum. That, agai is bullshit talk trying to take away form Lewis' achievements.
In their prime, both were competing at world class level..."bums" don't do that.

Lewis' chin was not bad at all, infact it was rather good. Holyfield, Tyson and Bowe visited the canvas on more occasions than Lewis did, and Lewis fought all the big punchers of his era.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4SQmxIP5Bk
Whoever thinks Lewis had a glass chin please watch this video...Herbie Hide had/has a glass chin, Lennox Lewis certainly did not.

While neither were 'bums', it's also true that neither McCall nor Rahman were ever heavyweight champions of the world. They were belt holders who held bits of a split crown and couldn't hold onto even those bits for any length of time.

They were very bad losses for Lewis and can't be swept under the carpet by pretending Oliver and Hasim were great fighters.

[Collins2000]

Buster Douglas being a "great" is bullshit talk from Tyson lovers who try and justify the fact Tyson got outboxed and beat up by a grade B Heavyweight whilst in his prime.

A prime Buster Douglas would not even dominate todays Heavyweight division, let alone beat ANY Heavyweight great in history

The same can be said of McCall and Rahman.

[p4p1]

LEWIS GOT KNOCKED OUT BY TWO BUMS in his prime. Now, he would have beaten Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield and Buster Douglas at their very best?

I cannot see a guy that have one of the weakest chins in boxing history beat skilled and hard hitting fighters like Bowe, Tyson or Holyfield. Buster Douglas in Tokyo that night would have beaten any great heavyweight fighter in history. The problem with Buster was that he was A LAZY FIGHTER WITH GREAT TALENT. HE DID NOT LIKE TO TRAIN. He had all the physical attributes of a great heavyweight: Tall, great jab, great mobility, speed, decent stamina if trained hard, better chin than given credit for, and could outhink his opponent, plus can hit hard.

But if you put Douglas in Tokyo against any version of Lennox Lewis and Buster wins...Probably by KO, too.
The Tyson that demolished the great Michael Spinks and Trevor Berbick would have eaten Lennox for dinner.
The Riddick Bowe that fought magnificently against Holyfield the first time, was exceptional. I cannot see Lennox in his best day beating Bowe that night.

And Holyfield in his prime? Once Holy is all over him, forget it...Lennox cannot take those shots.

Lennox Lewis was a great heavyweight by his accomplishments, but if I judge him by his talent, he was ORDINARY LIKE ANY ONE ELSE. He was nothing to be HIGH about.

Does that mean Buster would have beat Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Jack Johnson, Evander Holyfield, and Rocky Marciano if they came to fight that night?

Yes, Buster Douglas that night would have beaten any heavyweight in history, including the very greats. His performance in Tokyo was one of the very best that I have ever seen in my 30 years of watching boxing.

it looked good because he had the perfect physical attributes to beat tyson and stayed on his gameplan he still gets his ass kicked by ali, louis, frazier, dempsey and the list will go on even an old foreman would probably get the better or douglas

[yiddo14]

Buster Douglas being a "great" is bullshit talk from Tyson lovers who try and justify the fact Tyson got outboxed and beat up by a grade B Heavyweight whilst in his prime.

A prime Buster Douglas would not even dominate todays Heavyweight division, let alone beat ANY Heavyweight great in history

The same can be said of McCall and Rahman.

Agreed.

Lewis should never have lost to these guys. One punch caused Lewis' defeats. Neither systematically broke him down and busted him up. No one ever proved that could be done.

[yiddo14]

Incidently, Lewis did NOT lost to two "bums" in my opinion.

Sure, he should never have lost to these two(imagine if he had not...)and it was purely his own fault that he did by not taking either seriously(and the ref in the McCall fight being far too eager to call it off)BUT, how anyone can call McCall and Rahman "bums" is beyond me(especially from someone who brings up their 30 years as a big fight fan)

Oliver McCall was Heavyweight Champion Of The World. He defended once and also managed to have another shot at the title.

Hasim Rahman is a TWO TIME Heavyweight Champion Of The World. Neither can be called a bum. That, agai is bullshit talk trying to take away form Lewis' achievements.
In their prime, both were competing at world class level..."bums" don't do that.

Lewis' chin was not bad at all, infact it was rather good. Holyfield, Tyson and Bowe visited the canvas on more occasions than Lewis did, and Lewis fought all the big punchers of his era.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4SQmxIP5Bk
Whoever thinks Lewis had a glass chin please watch this video...Herbie Hide had/has a glass chin, Lennox Lewis certainly did not.

While neither were 'bums', it's also true that neither McCall nor Rahman were ever heavyweight champions of the world. They were belt holders who held bits of a split crown and couldn't hold onto even those bits for any length of time.

They were very bad losses for Lewis and can't be swept under the carpet by pretending Oliver and Hasim were great fighters.

I never said they were great fighters, far from it infact, but they were far from being bums.

Infact, they were a lot closer to being great than what they were bums!

[rob h]

Go back to the 50s and 60s to see real power?? They wouldn't have half the power of Lewis if they were fighting with 16 and 18oz gloves.

Lennox was never a concussive banger, but you cant doubt that the man hit hard.

That was a pathetic statement to make.

Also Crease, your saying Lewis was never great but you name Marciano as your second greatest in your top 10?

How did you manage that? He fought in a worse division to Lewis, was skilless, had a decision given to him,beat an old man in Louis,and the Moore fight was a known fix....

[Grimm]

Maybe ONLY Earnie Shavers...Against Jimmy Young? It depends how Jimmy comes into the fight. I don't think that Lennox Lewis would have beaten these guys at their very best:
1. Riddick Bowe
2. Evander Holyfield
3. Mike Tyson
4. Buster Douglas
5. Jersey Joe Walcott
6. Ezzard Charles

Are you related to Bert Sugar?