Was Larry Holmes Right About Rocky Marciano?

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Beating a shot fighter proves nothing

-granberry

In the scheme of things Young's (close loss) Holmes' Berbick's, and Spinks' victories over Ali, Marciano's victory over Louis, Tyson and Brian Neilsens' victories over Larry Holmes , Larry Donalds's, James Toney's and Chris Byrd' victories over Evander Holyfield mean little...

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Marciano's record was 49 and 0. That's a ZERO for losses.

He beat everyone he ever fought.

That rankles, doesn't it.

-granberry

I will demonstrate the absurdity of granberry's logic:

Joe Calzaghe's record was 45 and 0. That's a ZERO for losses.

He beat everyone he ever fought.

That rankles, doesn't it.

[observer1]

Was he great or was his 49-0 record a myth built on the backs of tired old fighters...As a kid him and Ali were my favorite fighters...Marciano from what I read in books and Ali because of what I saw with my own eyes...

How would he fare against these heavyweights on their best night and his?

Larry Holmes - Lose UD

Lennox Lewis - Lose UD

Joe Frazier - Lose TKO Rd 10

George Foreman - Lose Tko Rd 6

Muhammad Ali - Lose UD

Jack Dempsey - Win TKO 9

Sonny Liston - Lose Tko RD 11

Joe Louis - Lose UD

Jack Johnson - Lose UD

Evander Holyfield - Close one, But Win SD or Late TKO

Also Throw in Tyson - Lose TKO 8

__

That is my opinion. Marciano fought at too low a weight for a HW and would be treated like a rag-doll in the ring against these guys.

Jack Depsey fought at similar weight, but Marciano would beat him easily, as for Holyfield, their both Gutsy performers who just grit it out, But i would say marciano would win Two of a Trilogy.

[granberry]

What boxing knowledge is on display from the deep thinkers here.

LOL.

I also learned on boxrec that Marvin Hagler would beat Sam Langford.

Keep the deep thoughts and breathtaking knowledge coming.

[yancey]

What boxing knowledge is on display from the deep thinkers here.

LOL.

I also learned on boxrec that Marvin Hagler would beat Sam Langford.

Keep the deep thoughts and breathtaking knowledge coming.

Well, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Marciano would be smacked around pretty badly by most of those guys on the list.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

What boxing knowledge is on display from the deep thinkers here.

LOL.

I also learned on boxrec that Marvin Hagler would beat Sam Langford.

Keep the deep thoughts and breathtaking knowledge coming.

Well, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Marciano would be smacked around pretty badly by most of those guys on the list.

I said 6'5'' 240-260 pound Lennox Lewis would beat the 5'7'' 175-185 pound Sam Langford and I'm sticking to it...I don't care how many bigger men Langford beat he's not beating a ten inch taller and nearly a one hundred pound heavier Lennox Lewis...

[observer1]

What boxing knowledge is on display from the deep thinkers here.

LOL.

I also learned on boxrec that Marvin Hagler would beat Sam Langford.

Keep the deep thoughts and breathtaking knowledge coming.

Well, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Marciano would be smacked around pretty badly by most of those guys on the list.

I said 6'5'' 240-260 pound Lennox Lewis would beat the 5'7'' 175-185 pound Sam Langford and I'm sticking to it...I don't care how many bigger men Langford beat he's not beating a ten inch taller and nearly a one hundred pound heavier Lennox Lewis...

I second that notion

[Ambling Alp]

Just for the record, it should be mentioned that Lewis never weighed 260. He only had two fights over 250 and they were two of his worst performances (Rahman and Klitschko)

Langford's weights are usually unknown, so it hard to say what his normal weight was. However, he had several fights over 190 and atleast one when weighed over 200.

The weight advantage would be more like 50 pounds, not 100. Of course that is still a huge amount. And of course Lewis had huge height and reach advantages. When you have one fighter that is that much smaller, you have to weigh their abilities and styles and see if the smaller can overcome his disadvantage.
Usually, I would say that Langford's ability was so great that it would overcome a man that much bigger. However, while Langford obviously had more ability than Lewis, the gap isn't great enough to overcome the huge size advantage.

Lewis for a big man he had a lot of ability and because he knew how to use his height and reach advantages would probably be able to control the fight.

Lewis at his best (snapping his jab, not pawing with it) and focused, would probably win this.

[Cap]

If Lewis steps through the ropes and faces a smiling 5' 8" 185 pound fighter, chances are he's thinking about what he's doing for dinner after the fight. He's going to underestimate Langford even more than he did Rahman. So there's a good possibility that Langford will be able to hang a hard one on his exposed chin early on. If Langford can land one on Lewis's chin he can knock him out.

Sam Langford wasn't James Toney or Roy Jones. Sam Langford was a one in a million freak of nature, and most likely the greatest fighter at any weight in the history of boxing.

Cap

[ebeneezer]

I also learned on boxrec that Marvin Hagler would beat Sam Langford.

Keep the deep thoughts and breathtaking knowledge coming.

I learned that Gerry Cooney vs Jimmy Young was a fix and that a southpaw will punch himself in the face if he throws a left hook.

[Ezzard]

Was he great or was his 49-0 record a myth built on the backs of tired old fighters...As a kid him and Ali were my favorite fighters...Marciano from what I read in books and Ali because of what I saw with my own eyes...

How would he fare against these heavyweights on their best night and his?

Larry Holmes

Lennox Lewis

Joe Frazier

George Foreman

Muhammad Ali

Jack Dempsey

Sonny Liston

Joe Louis

Jack Johnson

Evander Holyfield

Anything can happen whent he greats meet but I wouldn't back him against any of those fighters listed.

[Knucklez]

I also learned on boxrec that Marvin Hagler would beat Sam Langford.

Keep the deep thoughts and breathtaking knowledge coming.

I learned that Gerry Cooney vs Jimmy Young was a fix and that a southpaw will punch himself in the face if he throws a left hook.

Granny gets humiliated for the 20th time this week so far.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

I also learned on boxrec that Marvin Hagler would beat Sam Langford.

Keep the deep thoughts and breathtaking knowledge coming.

I learned that Gerry Cooney vs Jimmy Young was a fix and that a southpaw will punch himself in the face if he throws a left hook.

One could do that experiment at home I presume.

[granberry]

I also learned on boxrec that Marvin Hagler would beat Sam Langford.

Keep the deep thoughts and breathtaking knowledge coming.

I learned that Gerry Cooney vs Jimmy Young was a fix and that a southpaw will punch himself in the face if he throws a left hook.

One could do that experiment at home I presume.

The contaminators of boxrec who think Marvin Hagler would beat Sam Langford and don't have a clue what a southpaw stance is

contaminate boxrec further with their petty ad hominem non boxing posts.

[ebeneezer]

The contaminators of boxrec who think Marvin Hagler would beat Sam Langford and don't have a clue what a southpaw stance is

contaminate boxrec further with their petty ad hominem non boxing posts.

Dearest Terap - How is discussing southpaws throwing left hooks a non boxing post prey tell?

*PS* Congratulations on finally spelling "hominem" correctly. Harold Johnson would be proud*

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Just for the record, it should be mentioned that Lewis never weighed 260. He only had two fights over 250 and they were two of his worst performances (Rahman and Klitschko)

Langford's weights are usually unknown, so it hard to say what his normal weight was. However, he had several fights over 190 and atleast one when weighed over 200.

The weight advantage would be more like 50 pounds, not 100. Of course that is still a huge amount. And of course Lewis had huge height and reach advantages. When you have one fighter that is that much smaller, you have to weigh their abilities and styles and see if the smaller can overcome his disadvantage.
Usually, I would say that Langford's ability was so great that it would overcome a man that much bigger. However, while Langford obviously had more ability than Lewis, the gap isn't great enough to overcome the huge size advantage.

Lewis for a big man he had a lot of ability and because he knew how to use his height and reach advantages would probably be able to control the fight.

Lewis at his best (snapping his jab, not pawing with it) and focused, would probably win this.

It's not as much the weight as the height...

I can't remember a fight in recent history where one opponent was ten inches shorter than the other...

[observer1]

granberry, why do you quote people but don't say anything about their comments, but instead say the same thing over and over.

I know what you are going to do now.. You are going to probably quote this and say "More of Collins boys contaminating Boxrec, Jack johnson is lame, Langford is cool" etc. etc.

Please, don't granberry, dont waste your time.

[theone]

Was he great or was his 49-0 record a myth built on the backs of tired old fighters...As a kid him and Ali were my favorite fighters...Marciano from what I read in books and Ali because of what I saw with my own eyes...

How would he fare against these heavyweights on their best night and his?

Larry Holmes

Lennox Lewis

Joe Frazier

George Foreman

Muhammad Ali

Jack Dempsey

Sonny Liston

Joe Louis

Jack Johnson

Evander Holyfield

He beats Johnson and most likely Dempsey. He loses to everyone else on the list. Convincingly at that.

[Dempsey1238]

Think you guys are undrated MArciano.

I think Marciano could beat most of the greats, Marciano does have the style and defenses movements to confuse Holmes to what Spinks did in there 2 fights with Holmes. I think Marciano can duck and weave his way by the jab, and relly bring the hurt on Holmes. People are alsways saying its like the Shavers fight, which its not at all. Marciano had a higher punchout put than Shavers, and longer stimia than Shavers, plus Marciano would still be pitching punchings in round 15, were Holmes never fought a fighter like that. I can see Marciano breaking Holmes down imo. Spinks was not the only one to confuse Holmes with movement. And I can see Marciano doing better.

Lewis is a bit harder, since Marciano never fought a giant like Lewis. And no this is not like Dempsey vs Willard or Louis vs Simon or B Baer. I think Lewis could win on his size and long jab perhaps, and his leaning when Marciano gets close. But seeing Rahman knocking out Lewis with one shot, I cant help but think Marciano might pull off the same feat.

Frazier would be a close fight, Marciano started off faster than Frazier did, but Frazier was faster than Marciano. I think in the end, Marciano's 2 fisted power would over whelm Fraizer's left hook. It will be a barn burning, and it could go either way imo. But over all I think Marciano marchs on and beats Frazier on points or stops him late in the fight. Also belive Marciano hit a little harder also because of knocking people in comas, or breaking bones(As he did to Layne and Lee Salvod).

Foreman, Marciano has to reach the 5 or 6 round round, or he be bomb out imo. could he do it?? I would say no. I think Foreman bounces Marciano around like he did Fraizer. If Rocky does see round 5 though, it might be other story.

Ali would be a war for either man imo. Ali was fast, but even he was amazing at Marciano's abilty to slip the jab in there computer fight. I think it will go to the cards, Marciano's cuts has been made into something of a reason on why Marciano would get stop, but it was only 1 or 2 fights were cuts was a factor in stopping the fight. If Marciano was so easy to cut to force a stoppage, than surely Walcott or Moore could have done it?? Charles got lucky with the elbow to the nose. Over all I think Marciano would be slipping, or advoided the the Ali Jab, and Ali would be force to fight it out like he did Fraizer. Both fighters will get there lumps in, and Ali would perhaps win a close points victory after a war. I do think Marciano could take 1 out of 3 fights.

Sonny Liston. Depends on Liston's jab. I think Liston stops the Rock in 5 or 6 rounds, and were Marciano can make Liston miss with the jab, the ones that do land will do the damage. Of couse Liston was beating by lesser fighters, but I give Liston the win on tko in round 7.

Jack Johnson, Depends on era, gloves size, nc rule, cliching ablity ete. I mean Jack Johnson fought in mostly a differnt sport than Rocky Marciano. Most of the stuff Johnson did would not be alllow in Marciano's era(twisting the arms, holding and hitting, cliching and not breaking them up. ete) I think Marciano takes Johnson in his, and Johnson his his. Johnson was also not the most active of fighters.

Holyfiled, is overrated as a heavyweight because of the Tyson wins. Holyfiled has shown to have gas out, in MORE than one fight imo. And Holyfiled's stimia is no were near Marciano's imo. I belive Marciano takes Holyfiled in deep water and just over welms a gas out Evander. Perhaps like Bowe III.

[Grimm]

To everyone that made Langford comments....

Do you have any film on him?

[I Feel Fine]

p.s. That segment was after the 1st Spinks fight, and Larry was no doubt pissed by losing a very close decision when he was going for 49-0 to match Marciano. I don't want to get things away from your subject, but do you think Ali would have lost those two Spinks decisions in the exact same situation?? I'll answer my own question.....never.

If Holmes had lost to a 6-0 Leon Spinks, you would be sitting there saying that Ali would have never lost a decision in that situation. So pipe down.

Holmes would probably beat Marciano, but it would not be an easy fight. Holmes didn't beat anyone nearly as good as Rocky.... though the opposite could also be said.

Frazier-Marciano isn't 50-50%.

It is more like 80-20% Frazier.

Frazier was the better fighter. But with that said; bullshit. Frazier-Marciano is a toss up.

[Robinson]

Yes he did retract those comments.
It is clear that he made those comments in the heat
of the moment, straight after the first Spinks loss.

I think what really pissed him off was the media hype leading up
to the fight, and how it seemed to be more about Marciano than
it was about Holmes.

Holmes was and is a proud stubborn man. He is a fighter at heart
and dead or a live he will say and do things that make many frown.

BUT my question is this...Holmes a top champion, a hard working man
a rags to riches story is condemned for his relatively benign comments
on Marciano...yet so many here hide behind a screen name and slag
on a fighter with such ease....and have an opinion on this matter???

[p4p1]

p.s. That segment was after the 1st Spinks fight, and Larry was no doubt pissed by losing a very close decision when he was going for 49-0 to match Marciano. I don't want to get things away from your subject, but do you think Ali would have lost those two Spinks decisions in the exact same situation?? I'll answer my own question.....never.

If Holmes had lost to a 6-0 Leon Spinks, you would be sitting there saying that Ali would have never lost a decision in that situation. So pipe down.

Holmes would probably beat Marciano, but it would not be an easy fight. Holmes didn't beat anyone nearly as good as Rocky.... though the opposite could also be said.

Frazier-Marciano isn't 50-50%.

It is more like 80-20% Frazier.

Frazier was the better fighter. But with that said; bullshit. Frazier-Marciano is a toss up.

i would have to favor holmes jab being in marciano's face all night long but

[yancey]

p.s. That segment was after the 1st Spinks fight, and Larry was no doubt pissed by losing a very close decision when he was going for 49-0 to match Marciano. I don't want to get things away from your subject, but do you think Ali would have lost those two Spinks decisions in the exact same situation?? I'll answer my own question.....never.

If Holmes had lost to a 6-0 Leon Spinks, you would be sitting there saying that Ali would have never lost a decision in that situation. So pipe down.

Holmes would probably beat Marciano, but it would not be an easy fight. Holmes didn't beat anyone nearly as good as Rocky.... though the opposite could also be said.

Frazier-Marciano isn't 50-50%.

It is more like 80-20% Frazier.

Frazier was the better fighter. But with that said; bullshit. Frazier-Marciano is a toss up.

Too bad I couldn't bet with you on that matter.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Yes he did retract those comments.
It is clear that he made those comments in the heat
of the moment, straight after the first Spinks loss.

I think what really pissed him off was the media hype leading up
to the fight, and how it seemed to be more about Marciano than
it was about Holmes.

Holmes was and is a proud stubborn man. He is a fighter at heart
and dead or a live he will say and do things that make many frown.

BUT my question is this...Holmes a top champion, a hard working man
a rags to riches story is condemned for his relatively benign comments
on Marciano...yet so many here hide behind a screen name and slag
on a fighter with such ease....and have an opinion on this matter?

Because nobody gives a hoot what we say...What Holmes said became part not only of boxing lore but sports lore as well...

It's now common place to discuss the attributes of two athletes and a fan of one athlete will invariably say the other athlete "couldn't carry his jock strap"...

I don't know what to make of his remarks...He was obviously very disappointed...