O/T -- WHATS THE CAUSE OF KNIFE CRIME THEN? EVERY1 CHIP IN

[DG.]

A misplaced idea about what ‘respect’ means. A lot of these kids come from poor single parent situations and haven’t been taught basic principles, because their parents had little themselves.

Sums it up.

I grew up in a violent area and stabbings were common place,everyone had a knife and the thing to go was 'wet' someone in the face so they had a scar for life.

Some kids have no respect and the parents are equally as scummy.

If the parents are cupid stunts then what chance have the kids got? Having said that I actually know some kids that have more sense than their parents!

Until these little fckers stop trying to be hard and watching the stupid arse rappers from the states the sooner they sort themselves out.

To the poster who posted stats, stabbings have always been the way of the poorer ghettos and if you did not carry a knife, you were almost asking to get stabbed yourself.

DG carried a knife for a year or so as a youngster but it looked after you when the local fcuking idiot gang saw you on your own and put a dagger to your chest.

Not proud of it - but its in the past and never used it on anyone.

Kids today have less respect because at home they have no rules - their parents are sometimes 'kids' themselves and equally as caught up in the glamorous life shit that seems to be all the rage.

The media are fueling it way too much. The Government need to impose tougher sentences to those who commit crime and they also need to create opportunities for the young kids growing up and improve housing and education on all levels.

I am from Stockwell/Wandsworth Road SW London and I saw it all growing up - but it made me see it is no life and time to make a change for myself.

Kids today are actually better off than the generation ago, but that in itself makes for crime with this playstation/ipod lark.

I remember when I had a pair of Adidas TRX for £10.99 - I thought I was in heaven and when I bought a pair of Nike Wimbledon for £21.99 - wow!!!

Today? trainers cost £100.00 plus and these kids want it now, little fuckers.

More opportunities are what's needed, kids today are mentally weak and a lot of them need more guidance than the previous generation due in them being wrapped in stinking wool.

They just need a hug and a kick in the arse.

[mikey h]

Simple really, a lack of discipline and a complete lack of respect for anything.

Bad parenting is the biggest cause for concern, but I don't really see what the solution is when the parents are often as bad as the kids themselves.

Agree with the parenting issue. Was working outdoors on a local hospital when a kid no older than 8 was walking home from school with his parents, next thing i saw was him launch an empty coke can at the bloke i was working with. As soon as my mate shouted his Dad was defending him saying he was only a kid and offering to fight my mate. Parents make some kids feel that they can do no wrong.

[BunglesFingers]

If people are unable to discipline or teach their kids any sort of manners
or respect then what hope is there for the future generations? I have a couple of teacher friends who have trouble getting parents to even attend the school parents evening.
These people should be fined, jailed, benefits stopped, whatever it takes for them to take care of their responsibilities. Kids will get into trouble if they are given half a chance.

A stab proof vest will give you far more protection than carrying your nans steak knife.

[observer1]

Immigration.....people come here who hate us and where they come from is pretty much lawless. So they dont give a f*ck about stabbing people.

So the Poles and Iraqis are behind the Knife Crime are they ?



Lay of the Tabloids dude.

It's one thing, and it's already been said here. The Lack of (if any) parenting done to their children. The guys who do these things (usually Chavs) are not Cool, not Ghetto gangsters, not Lads. their just spoilt idiots.

Teddy, seriously, lay of the tabloids

[Coco]

Immigration.....people come here who hate us and where they come from is pretty much lawless. So they dont give a f*ck about stabbing people.

So the Poles and Iraqis are behind the Knife Crime are they ?



Lay of the Tabloids dude.

It's one thing, and it's already been said here. The Lack of (if any) parenting done to their children. The guys who do these things (usually Chavs) are not Cool, not Ghetto gangsters, not Lads. their just spoilt idiots.

Teddy, seriously, lay of the tabloids

In fairness it is my belief that recent immigration has led to a rise in stabbings, but what many don't realise that this has been going on for years and there is only been a recent tabloid led moral panic about it because more kids have been hurt. Suddenly the majority of inner city attacks, which never got a mention before is now front page material

[Hardhitters11]

Dg - Summed it up just right, I am from Old Kent rd/Peckham/Camberwell originally and now Thamesmead and all these area's are exactly as described and knives were alway's a common factor in every area I have been brought up/hanged around in.....

I knew a good few people at school 17 years ago that carried knives!

Load's of people wanted to "wet" other's up and make sure they remembered them....

Not saying all but alot of poster's on here probably haven't been brought up in those sort of environment's.

Kid's need to be encouraged to do other thing's with their time other than gang's, IE Boxing or music etc.....

The Government should provide more fund's for Youth club type place's and facilities within them as well as activities/excursions for younger people.

[Coco]

Dg - Summed it up just right, I am from Old Kent rd/Peckham/Camberwell originally and now Thamesmead and all these area's are exactly as described and knives were alway's a common factor in every area I have been brought up/hanged around in.....

I knew a good few people at school 17 years ago that carried knives!

Load's of people wanted to "wet" other's up and make sure they remembered them....

Not saying all but alot of poster's on here probably haven't been brought up in those sort of environment's.

Kid's need to be encouraged to do other thing's with their time other than gang's, IE Boxing or music etc.....

The Government should provide more fund's for Youth club type place's and facilities within them as well as activities/excursions for younger people.

I'm was from the leafy suburbs and in the late 80's anyone who wanted to be someone was carrying, more for show, but if u put yourself in situations where you get scared enough you will use it.
This isn't a new thing at all, the culture of trying to be the big man was always there, apparently it has got much worse though. Shooters are plenty and kids are more desperate than ever to prove themselves.
These kids need options, and role models who have taken realistic and sensible options to be successful.
They should often see examples of where playing the big man really gets you, jail or hurt.
Unfortunately too many people come out of nick glorifying the experience(usually to hide they cried themselves too sleep) and the kids don't realise how crap it is in there.

[Coco]

How about sending anyone caught with a knife to Iraq and Afganistan, so they can be in a real fight?

[Twinkle Toes]

How about sending anyone caught with a knife to Iraq and Afganistan, so they can be in a real fight?

Well aye, it would certainly be a shock to the system, but seeing how a lot of of our lads come back in such a psychological mess that they can't adjust to a normal life, I am not sure it would work.

I think it's a fair comment that the media are manipulating the situation amongst knife crime at the moment.

I remember back when I was a lad at school, it was always cool to have a knife, and if you had a flick knife you where the dogs bollocks (you also got expelled if caught with one too, as my mate found out heh) So aye, I can recall there has always been a degree of knife culture.

I found the hospital admissions for stab related incidents the most interesting of all:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 60857.html

Carrying a knife is no bigger deal now as it was 20 years ago, but actually using one seems to have sky rocketed.

[King Tubby]

Sentences like this don't help.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... article.do

[Coco]

Sentences like this don't help.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... article.do

4 years for stabbing somone to death, with previous for possession of a knife and he went on the run in cyprus!
And there was a link from that where a billionaire had a caution for possesion of 52g of coke!
And the canoeist had 6 years!
It doesn't give us much faith in the judicial system

[SticknMove]

DG fleshes out the situation well. I think it has become a generational thing that has escalated to an extent that these kids carrying knives, with a willingness to use them, are getting younger and younger.

I was brought up in Custom House and Stratford in east London. Of couse there were gangs back then and the carrying of weapons was commonplace from a few. But the extreme violence ie. stabbings, shootings were almost exclusively perpetrated by adults and not from kids in their mid teens.

The starting point will always remain with the parenting. It was the same then and has escalated even further now. There are too many lost, disaffected people caught in a cycle of expectation and bad choices that has left them without whilst they blame everyone else for the situation. They have kids and fornicate off and/or leave them to their own devices because they never had the inclination to live up to their responsibilities.

Added to this, the obvious gap between those that have and those who don’t, and the media pressure that you’re noboby unless you’re famous, wealthy or living the life. Under these circumstances It will always be very difficult for many of these kids to find a positive path and structure.

[Gray-Fox]

The fact that there are about 30 different reasons in here, mostly all valid, shows that threads like this are essentially worthless. There is NO one single cause. It's simply a mixture of things, but as i said, it's mostly down to economic deprivation and class hierarchy. This country is IMMENSELY elitist.

[SticknMove]

The fact that there are about 30 different reasons in here, mostly all valid, shows that threads like this are essentially worthless. There is NO one single cause. It's simply a mixture of things, but as i said, it's mostly down to economic deprivation and class hierarchy. This country is IMMENSELY elitist.

Worthy not worthless.

Of course there's no single cause and solution that can be nailed down to resolve the situation.

[coneye]

The fact that there are about 30 different reasons in here, mostly all valid, shows that threads like this are essentially worthless. There is NO one single cause. It's simply a mixture of things, but as i said, it's mostly down to economic deprivation and class hierarchy. This country is IMMENSELY elitist.

Worthy not worthless.

Of course there's no single cause and solution that can be nailed down to resolve the situation.[/quote

Mostly down to economic deprivation, Lots of reasons but thats one of the least likely , at least in Britain , lets have it right i come from a very poor background born and raised in a rough area, big familly , ect ect ect you've heard it all before. our house it was literly first up best dressed, thing is though we were not starving and in present day britain being poor for most of these little toerags means they can't afford 100 pound nike trainers , There still well fed they still have houses to live in . Sorry mate the bloke up the road got a better house and a bigger car than me reason to carry and use a knife don't wash.

They carry them to feel hard, lots carry them and don't use them but the ones who do would use a brick or a iron bar just has easy because there the dregs viscous little bastards and thats all there is to it.
Only one way to cure it found carrying a knife 2 years automatic found guilty of using one 10 years no parole second time guilty LIFE .

It won't stop it happening all the time but it will make a lot think twice, and the others who do it well at least the streets will be rid of one more dangerous little pudendum.

Only way to stamp it out is to stop pissing about build more prisons, fill them up with these scumbags and make them pay for there crimes make them acountable for what they do , and in the case of ANYONE who was not born in britain seen has how knifes and violence are a part of some cultures send the bastards back to where they came

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

My two bob,

There is a lot of talk about the different cultures that use a knife in fights, this is true of Spain and Russia (just to name two) now the knife deaths in Russia are probably higher than in the UK (due to alcohol) but whats making the news here is children stabbing other children - It doesn't happen in Spain and again that is a nation whose culture is to use a knife in a fight.

Now this is a new phenonemon. Remember when Venables and Thompson killed Jamie Bulger and that horrendous crime made the nation stop in it's tracks - now we are hearing every week of a child killing another child.

The causes are various and the effects getting more deadly. How to stop it?

Build more prisons - HMP Pitcairn has been built at taxpayers expense to jail the child rapists on the island, put that jail to good use and build two nice big 50000 jails on West Falkland and East Falkland- use the crims as mine clearance specialists and put them to good use.

If they are on drugs when they go - they won't be when they leave. If it works a treat - start building jails on Tristan da Cuhna, South Georgia and Diego Garcia.

[bugs]

Try building huge jails on the Falklands, it'll drain the treasury more than the Millenium Done and Wembley put together. Then try to find quality prison guards who are prepared to relocate to that shitheap and see how much you have to pay them, then the costs of food, equiptment, etc. It is a ridiculous idea, how about more parenting programs, more civil responsibility punishments, make people pick up litter, clean toilets, sweep the streets, make them do things that cannot be considered 'cool' to releive their debt to society, and put them in mandatory education programs to ensure when they rejoin the streets without their tags and requirements they can function with jobs and contribute to society. Rehabilitation and Education, not revenge and punishment!

We live in a media saturated world, everything is more reported now than it have ever been before.

[banjo]

What we really need to deter youngsters from crime is a brutal prison regime and I do mean brutal. Savagely beat inmates day and night, break them down physically and mentally so that they cry themselves to sleep like babies, keep them away from ALL aspects of society - no TV, playstations, magazines, CD's and most importantly NO VISITORS. Maybe then they will begin to regret their crimes and never want to go back to prison once they are released.

[bugs]

What we really need to deter youngsters from crime is a brutal prison regime and I do mean brutal. Savagely beat inmates day and night, break them down physically and mentally so that they cry themselves to sleep like babies, keep them away from ALL aspects of society - no TV, playstations, magazines, CD's and most importantly NO VISITORS. Maybe then they will begin to regret their crimes and never want to go back to prison once they are released.

People who come out of brutal prison regimes tend to have become even more brutal themselves. I wold like to see an example of a brutal prison system that has worked, in a free society at any rate.

[DG.]

If people are unable to discipline or teach their kids any sort of manners
or respect then what hope is there for the future generations? I have a couple of teacher friends who have trouble getting parents to even attend the school parents evening.
These people should be fined, jailed, benefits stopped, whatever it takes for them to take care of their responsibilities. Kids will get into trouble if they are given half a chance.

A stab proof vest will give you far more protection than carrying your nans steak knife.

Hear this!

My friend is a teacher and a kid brought his dad down to fight him.

Guess what, the 'Dad' turned out to me my friends wifes cousin! My friend remembered him from their wedding a few years previous. Just goes to show how daft some parents are, fighting a teacher because he gives your rat of a kid detention.

The 'dad' felt a bit daft when my friend told him.

ALSO, the same teacher had to call the mother of one rude child who was disrupting lessons.

The Mothers phone went to voicemail and the music playing? some Ragga tune called 'Bra and Panties' or something like that, what chance does the kid have??

[nickd]

What we really need to deter youngsters from crime is a brutal prison regime and I do mean brutal. Savagely beat inmates day and night, break them down physically and mentally so that they cry themselves to sleep like babies, keep them away from ALL aspects of society - no TV, playstations, magazines, CD's and most importantly NO VISITORS. Maybe then they will begin to regret their crimes and never want to go back to prison once they are released.

Brutal might be going too far, but prisons definitely need to be tougher than they are now. Some of there places are like holiday camps compared to what they should be like.

No prisoner should have a TV in their cell for starters that is just ridiculous. Some of these offenders are living a better life on the inside than they do in normal life. How is that a deterrent?

[Asterix]

Brutal might be going too far, but prisons definitely need to be tougher than they are now. Some of there places are like holiday camps compared to what they should be like.

No prisoner should have a TV in their cell for starters that is just ridiculous. Some of these offenders are living a better life on the inside than they do in normal life. How is that a deterrent?

I agree. Although I'm really in no place to give suggestions on prison life (as I've never been to a prison before, and anyone who makes these kind of decisions should definitely have experienced as many prisons as possible, imo), I think prisoners should be made to work. They need to work enough to cover the expenses to keep them there. The general public should not have to pay for the living of people who commit crimes.

[SticknMove]

Brutal might be going too far, but prisons definitely need to be tougher than they are now. Some of there places are like holiday camps compared to what they should be like.

No prisoner should have a TV in their cell for starters that is just ridiculous. Some of these offenders are living a better life on the inside than they do in normal life. How is that a deterrent?

I agree. Although I'm really in no place to give suggestions on prison life (as I've never been to a prison before, and anyone who makes these kind of decisions should definitely have experienced as many prisons as possible, imo), I think prisoners should be made to work. They need to work enough to cover the expenses to keep them there. The general public should not have to pay for the living of people who commit crimes.

Yeah I agree with all this.

Prison appears to be far too cosy. Make them work off their sentences and contribute something back to the taxpayer that pays for their upkeep. 12 hour days of working would be better than how many hours sitting around idle in jail cells or communal areas of prison.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Try building huge jails on the Falklands, it'll drain the treasury more than the Millenium Done and Wembley put together. Then try to find quality prison guards who are prepared to relocate to that shitheap and see how much you have to pay them, then the costs of food, equiptment, etc. It is a ridiculous idea, how about more parenting programs, more civil responsibility punishments, make people pick up litter, clean toilets, sweep the streets, make them do things that cannot be considered 'cool' to releive their debt to society, and put them in mandatory education programs to ensure when they rejoin the streets without their tags and requirements they can function with jobs and contribute to society. Rehabilitation and Education, not revenge and punishment!

We live in a media saturated world, everything is more reported now than it have ever been before.

Its a fornicating brilliant idea - its a shithole? We may have differing opinions of what constitutes a shithole, lots of inner city Britian is a shithole, the Falklands has fresh air and NO HARD DRUGS!

We would be doing the cons a favour by getting them clean whilst they were there.

They can pay their debt to society by clearing the minefields (for prisoners convicted of murder) as for paying POs more money - so what? And it wouldn't be as expensive as wembley - how silly - prime estate in London compared to the cheap price of land in the Falklands - however much it cost - it would do far more good than harm.

[Hardhitters11]

All of my closest friend's have been in prison and they all agree it is a piece of piss, It's just the boredom that get's at you.

One of them went to Canterbury after Belmarsh and had Sky TV and a Playstation 2!

How stupid is that.