I thought this would provide an interesting debate, so I decided to post it.
I would like to know who you guys consider to be the top-10 British fighters in the history of boxing.
Lets see the lists, please!
Name your top-10 British fighters in history
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Rocky Balboa
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1851
- Joined: 24 Jan 2004, 16:38
Re: Name your top-10 British fighters in history
now call me cynical if you will but in this weeks boxing news theres a chance to win a pair of ticklets for the BBBC anniversary dinner. to win these much sought after tickets all you have to do is send in a list of what you consider to be, yep you guessed it, your list of top ten british fighters of all time.Rocky Balboa wrote:I thought this would provide an interesting debate, so I decided to post it.
I would like to know who you guys consider to be the top-10 British fighters in the history of boxing.
Lets see the lists, please!
make up your own list and send it in rocky, instead of cherry picking others!!
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Southpaw Stylist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1484
- Joined: 19 Jul 2003, 04:50
Re: Name your top-10 British fighters in history
You're cynical.neil r wrote:now call me cynical if you will but in this weeks boxing news theres a chance to win a pair of ticklets for the BBBC anniversary dinner. to win these much sought after tickets all you have to do is send in a list of what you consider to be, yep you guessed it, your list of top ten british fighters of all time.Rocky Balboa wrote:I thought this would provide an interesting debate, so I decided to post it.
I would like to know who you guys consider to be the top-10 British fighters in the history of boxing.
Lets see the lists, please!
make up your own list and send it in rocky, instead of cherry picking others!!
ive never really been into these lists. i mean lets be honest its all supposition and "what ifs" its purely subjective with no end. for example to use bennies list (which im not critisising), who on this forum has ever seen ted lewis fight or jack berg, randolph turpin or jimmy wilde. is anyone even old enough to have witnessed freddie mills or kenny buchanan in the flesh?? probably not.bennie wrote:Either way, no worries.
Ted "Kid" Lewis
Jimmy Wilde
Ken Buchanan
Lennox Lewis
Jack "Kid" Berg
Randolph Turpin
Owen Moran
Lloyd Honeyghan
John Conteh
Freddie Mills
this is why i find these list pointless. its a bit like the p4p lists that come along. they can be mind numbing. to judge a fighter on grainy old films that are even 30 years old offers no real chance to guage how good they really were. like wise to judge a fighters ability on the stories of the past can also be misleading.
for example you got randy turpin in there. no one can say with any great amount of certaintly if he was better or worse than nigel benn. ok turpin beat sugar ray but it was an aging robinson who was touring europe at the time and partying, whilst neglecting his training. when he got his chance at a rematch and went into it seriosly only 63 days later he beat turpin convincingly. so in effect you could say that turpin was one of the worst british world champs due to the fact he is the shortest reigning british world champ ever. now thats not neccesarily my opinion on turpin but for me it does go to prove how mind numbing these lists can be!
harry greb ( i know hes not british!)is a classic of this. he constantly pops up in lists of all time greats but yet no actual fight films exist of him, so how can anyone even make a remote judgement.
to judge a fighter you need to be aware of how he fought, his strenghts and his weaknesses etc. these are things extremely difficult to get from dodgy old films or tales from years gone by.
i hate them!!!! :x
Last edited by neil r on 04 Apr 2004, 14:24, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah, they're pointless. Nothing can be proved or disproved. Still, surprised nobody's had a go at me yet for excluding Naseem. And Eubank.neil r wrote:ive never really been into these lists. i mean lets be honest its all supposition and "what ifs" its purely subjective with no end. fpr example to use bennies list, who on this forum has ever seen ted lewis fight or jack berg, randolph turpin or jimmy wilde. is anyone even old enought to have witnessed freddie mills or kenny buchanan in the flesh?? probably not.bennie wrote:Either way, no worries.
Ted "Kid" Lewis
Jimmy Wilde
Ken Buchanan
Lennox Lewis
Jack "Kid" Berg
Randolph Turpin
Owen Moran
Lloyd Honeyghan
John Conteh
Freddie Mills
hi is why i find these list pointless. its a bit like the p4p lists that come along. they can be mind numbing. to judge a fighter on grainy old films that are even 30 years old offers no real chance to guage how good they really were. like wise to judge a fighters ability ion the stories of the past can also be misleading.
for example you got randy turpin in there. no one can say with any great amount of certaintly if he was better or worse than nigel benn. ok turpin beat sugar ray but it was an aging robinson who was touring europe at the time and partying, whilst neglecting his training. when he got his chance at a rematch and went into it seriosly only 63 days later he beat turpin convincingly. so in effect you could say that turpin was one of the worst british world champs due to the fact he is the shortest reigning british world champ ever. now thats not neccesarily my opinion on turpin but for me it does go to prove how mind numbing these lists can be!
i hate them!!!! :x
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Southpaw Stylist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1484
- Joined: 19 Jul 2003, 04:50
I bit high that statement, I think you must rank Eubank higher than him for kick off.The Hawk wrote:I have often heard of Nigel Benn being refered too as the best post war British boxer due to his defeat of Gerald McClellan, any thoughts on his standing in British Boxing history?
Add the likes of Randolph Turpin, Howard Winstone, Ken Buchanon, Lennox Lewis, Barry McGuigan, John Conteh, Freddie Mills, and Nazeem Hamed (of the top of my head) all I think would be placed above him.
Randolph Turpin's win over Sugar Ray Robinson was a bigger post-war achievment than Benn's over McClellan. Honeyghan's over Curry, too. Benn was a great British fighter, but the fact he failed to beat Eubank in two fights and lost to Watson doesn't make him the greatest post-war British boxer. I would give that achievement to Buchanan, who won the world lightweight title in Puerto Rico, defended in the same hostile venue in Los Angeles where Johnny Owen later died (against the Mexican Ruben Navarro), and took Madison Square garden - then the home of world boxing - by storm with his sheer boxing skills. It's like a British fighter going to Vegas today and wowing the Yanks again and again.The Hawk wrote:I have often heard of Nigel Benn being refered too as the best post war British boxer due to his defeat of Gerald McClellan, any thoughts on his standing in British Boxing history?
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MightyWarrior
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 13281
- Joined: 23 Jan 2003, 14:01
Benn's win over McClellan, although in tragic terms was one of the greatest in British Boxing history. I don't think he stands as the best post war British fighter, but I have heard that quote being used before. Its interesting to hear your thoughts on it.stujones wrote:I bit high that statement, I think you must rank Eubank higher than him for kick off.The Hawk wrote:I have often heard of Nigel Benn being refered too as the best post war British boxer due to his defeat of Gerald McClellan, any thoughts on his standing in British Boxing history?
Add the likes of Randolph Turpin, Howard Winstone, Ken Buchanon, Lennox Lewis, Barry McGuigan, John Conteh, Freddie Mills, and Nazeem Hamed (of the top of my head) all I think would be placed above him.
Although I do think Benn was a great British fighter, I think the likes of Randolph Turpins defeat of Sugar Ray Robinson ranks very highly towards being the top. I think I would maybe place Benn above McGuigan due to the McClellan win. Even though he lost to Eubank and Watson, McClellan was represented as a danger fight, a no win contest for Benn and as great a champion as Barry was, I think the epic McClellan fight just pulls him over him for me.
Eubank and Watson, in terms of risk value, did not sit as high as the McClellan fight. Its a good debate this thread and is open to many differant views of events.
When you think of a top 10 greatest British fighter, what do you think about to place him?
Is it their over all career that that you go by, a certain fight or skills. For example you can be an artist in the ring and never be involved in a war. Or you could be a warrior in the ring and never have an easy fight.
Also with the retirement of Lennox Lewis and his reign over the heavyweights, do you think like during his career a lot of British over looked him. Is this the same in retirement?
Any thoughts on this?
Is it their over all career that that you go by, a certain fight or skills. For example you can be an artist in the ring and never be involved in a war. Or you could be a warrior in the ring and never have an easy fight.
Also with the retirement of Lennox Lewis and his reign over the heavyweights, do you think like during his career a lot of British over looked him. Is this the same in retirement?
Any thoughts on this?
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Matchfixer
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1117
- Joined: 24 Jan 2004, 11:27
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knockout artist
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: 03 Sep 2003, 13:18
I agree with a point made above that these sorts of lists are both endless, and frankly pointless. I'm all for people expressing their views (thats what a forum is for!) but it's one of those never-ending questions....
Who was better, Pele or Maradona? Best Mate or Arkle? Ali or Tyson?
You CANNOT COMPARE PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THEIR OWN ERAS.
Ali - "The greatest ever boxer" you hear. Was he? Probably... but perhaps not. Perhaps a prime Tyson would have mauled him inside of 3 rounds? Who knows...and we never will. What he WAS, was the "best of his era".
You hear about people like Jimmy Wilde etc, who might have got absolutely whipped in todays era. (who knows??) WHo has seen anything of him? People are going on reputation. Many of the fights back then were decided by media vote!!! they weren't even properly refereed!! So how many biased Sven-Ottke style decisions were there then!!!
So the "Top 10 British fighters in history" ...er... well... good luck!
Who was better, Pele or Maradona? Best Mate or Arkle? Ali or Tyson?
You CANNOT COMPARE PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THEIR OWN ERAS.
Ali - "The greatest ever boxer" you hear. Was he? Probably... but perhaps not. Perhaps a prime Tyson would have mauled him inside of 3 rounds? Who knows...and we never will. What he WAS, was the "best of his era".
You hear about people like Jimmy Wilde etc, who might have got absolutely whipped in todays era. (who knows??) WHo has seen anything of him? People are going on reputation. Many of the fights back then were decided by media vote!!! they weren't even properly refereed!! So how many biased Sven-Ottke style decisions were there then!!!
So the "Top 10 British fighters in history" ...er... well... good luck!
Haha yes, sorry for what was a bit of a rant, its just that I think all these P4P rankings and so on are a load of drivel. Worse still are comments like "Ali would have kicked Tyson's ass" ... I mean, I'm not saying he wouldn't... its just that you can't and should compare apples & pears...The Hawk wrote:Good point, you could re-think the 10 over and over, kind of like the pound for pound rankingsPeople have so many views on that today.
Was Fango a better driver than Schmacher? Would Nijinsky have beaten Shergar in the Derby? Who knows... who cares... but to "conclude" either way would be idiotic and one-eyed.
Same applies to boxing....
Loftgroov wrote:Haha yes, sorry for what was a bit of a rant, its just that I think all these P4P rankings and so on are a load of drivel. Worse still are comments like "Ali would have kicked Tyson's ass" ... I mean, I'm not saying he wouldn't... its just that you can't and should compare apples & pears...The Hawk wrote:Good point, you could re-think the 10 over and over, kind of like the pound for pound rankings
Was Fango a better driver than Schmacher? Would Nijinsky have beaten Shergar in the Derby? Who knows... who cares... but to "conclude" either way would be idiotic and one-eyed.
Same applies to boxing....
Totally agree but the best example Ive heard is "Jesse ownes better than Carl Lewis" . Well he werent faster but with todays training techniques and knowledge but generally accepted as better. yes.
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TheRiverCityHippy
- Middleweight
- Posts: 8494
- Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 15:39
just out of curiosity headhunter when did you see jem mace, bob fitzsimmons, jimmy wilde, ted lewis, jack berg, jim driscoll and benny lynch fight??headhunter wrote:1. jem mace.
2. bob fitzsimmons
3. lennox lewis.
4. jimmy wilde
5. ken buchanan
6. ted kid lewis
7. jack kid berg
8. john conteh
9. jim driscoll
10. benny lynch
happy 140th birthday this year!
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TheRiverCityHippy
- Middleweight
- Posts: 8494
- Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 15:39
i know he was born in cornwall, and i think he moved to new zealand in his early teens where he became a blacksmith`s apprentice.
jem mace found him here and as ruby robert was already aquiring himself a reputation with his fists mace decided to show him the finer arts of the game.
he probably billed himself from australia because he was fed up of americans asking where new zealand was
he won titles at three weights which was no mean feat in those days and until armstrong he was the only man to do so.
he beat the original jack dempsey (nonpareil) for the middleweight crown, then defeated corbett for the heavyweight gong and then became the second champion of the newly formed light heavyweight division by beating george gardner at nearly 40 years of age.
his british credentials are probably similar to lennox lewis`s.
jem mace found him here and as ruby robert was already aquiring himself a reputation with his fists mace decided to show him the finer arts of the game.
he probably billed himself from australia because he was fed up of americans asking where new zealand was
he won titles at three weights which was no mean feat in those days and until armstrong he was the only man to do so.
he beat the original jack dempsey (nonpareil) for the middleweight crown, then defeated corbett for the heavyweight gong and then became the second champion of the newly formed light heavyweight division by beating george gardner at nearly 40 years of age.
his british credentials are probably similar to lennox lewis`s.
