Prime Sonny Liston

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Bert Sugar said that Sonny Liston purposely had his corner rub linament on his gloves when he was in trouble so he could temporarily blind his opponents...He specifically mentions the Machen, Folley, and Clay (Ali) fights...

Is he being truthful? If the answer is yes . that's a despicable thing to do...If the the answer is no, Mr. Sugar should never opine on boxing again, or at least decent people shouldn't listen to him...

[TheOneIsHere2008]

How would Sonny Liston in his prime fare against:

Evander Holyfield

Mike Tyson

Lennox Lewis

George Foreman

Larry Holmes

Rocky Marciano

[Ezzard]

Well I think Liston was a great fighter. Possibly the most powerful jab ever. Good repetoire of power punches, sturdy chin... Early in his career he showed he could take a beating and come back to win... Also showed he ahd a lot of heart. the Ali fights do prove though that he could be frustrated and beaten up. When Ali is beting him to the jab he looks lost at sea....

Anyway...

Holyfield would take the big punches andhis indominitable will would win him the fight IMO.

Holyfield WUD15

Liston would beat Tyson in a great fight...

Liston WKO 8

Liston lewis would be touch and go... I'll take

Liston WKO 10

Liston drives Foreman back and finishes him

Liston WKO 10

Holmes' jab while not as powerful was quicker and this allows him to keep Sonny off and score the points.

Holmes WUD 15

Marciano gets smashed to a pulp by the jab.

Liston WKO 6

[Ezzard]

Sometimes though the story is colourful enough to keep being used... A bit like Dempsey's plater of paris hands or Pep's round without throwing a punch or Ali getting 24 hours to recover against Cooper after the torn glove... A good story is a good story. Maybe this one is true, maybe it isn't, makes good copy though.

[Tantum]

Bert Sugar's a douche bag.

[observer1]

How would Sonny Liston in his prime fare against:

Evander Holyfield - Win TKO Latter Rounds.

Mike Tyson - Lose TKO Midde-Latter Rounds

Lennox Lewis - Lose UD as long as Lennox can weather the early rounds.

George Foreman - Intresting Match up, But i see Liston coming out on top in a TKO latter rounds or SD.

Larry Holmes - Lose UD

Rocky Marciano - Win KO - Middle-Latter Rounds

[dempseyfire]

Bert Sugar is a nice guy but he often blatently writes down rumour and hearsay as fact, which is flat-out irresponsible.

Machen never even complained of his eyes burning in their fight.

[BoxBuzz]

Bert Sugar's a douche bag.

If your going to go so far as to say this for the record, you'll need to provide proper documentation.

[granberry]

Sugar's a drunk.

By noon each day.

Anyone who worked with him can verify that.

Sugar is bald.

He gets very upset if anyone knocks his hat off.

Sugar can't open his mouth without making a mistake of facts.

The RING magazine remnant under Sugar was RIDDLED with mistakes of simple facts.

Sugar brought in all his cronies and drinking buddies to desecrate the pages of what was once the Bible of boxing.

And then they elected each other to the (so-called) Boxing Hall of Fame.

Sugar wrote in the remnant of the RING magazine that the Leonard-Duran 2nd "fight" was a legitimate "fight."

At the time I got a number of calls from people who knew what boxing was when it was legitimate and hadn't looked at the RING for a while,

but went to find it after the raw crap of Leonard-Duran II.

They all asked me, "Who is this idiot Bert Sugar and what happened to Nat Fleischer?"

I explained that Fleischer was dead

and the RING magazine was dead.

But Sugar is alive, running from program to program with his hat and his cigar, dribbling out his inaccuracies.

A hat and a cigar do not an 'expert' make.

[Robinson]

I have never liked Bert Sugar.

Everyone has an opinion..some just get a bigger soap box...
that does not make theirs any more valid.

[wouter]

He gets very upset if anyone knocks his hat off.

Really???

[Collins2000]

Sugar wrote in the remnant of the RING magazine that the Leonard-Duran 2nd "fight" was a legitimate "fight."

At the time I got a number of calls from people who knew what boxing was when it was legitimate and hadn't looked at the RING for a while,

but went to find it after the raw crap of Leonard-Duran II.

They all asked me, "Who is this idiot Bert Sugar and what happened to Nat Fleischer?"

I explained that Fleischer was dead

Your pals didn't know Nat was dead by that time?

LOL

[observer1]

Edit: Just realised i already answered

[Brutu]

I dont know why everyone tries to make Liston a bad guy,probably a lot worse people later became sometype of heavyweight champion with the number of belts that floated around after Liston.

[Collins2000]

I dont know why everyone tries to make Liston a bad guy,probably a lot worse people later became sometype of heavyweight champion with the number of belts that floated around after Liston.

I agree Brutu; he certainly wasn't as bad as he is often made out to be.

In the photos I have seen of Sonny, he always looked the happiest when he was with kids. Or wearing a kilt...



Or hitting the jackpot...

[Robinson]

Collins
awesome photos.

Liston always seems to be generally happy in photos I have seen of him
except of course while he is training, fighting or with Ali.

[raylawpc]

I dont know why everyone tries to make Liston a bad guy,probably a lot worse people later became sometype of heavyweight champion with the number of belts that floated around after Liston.

Johnny Coulon, the great old-time bantamweight champion, reportedly liked Liston and is quoted as having said of Sonny "I never heard him say a bad word about anyone else."

Too bad, I guess, so many people say nasty things about Sonny when, according to Coulon, he never reciprocated in kind.

[My2Sense]

Liston was overrated as hell IMO. He was a big, hulking brute with a big left hook, but he was ponderous and not particularly skillful (although I know some people will dispute that). IMO, he was just a more motivated/consistent version of Max Baer. He won the title from a very vulnerable champion who avoided not only Liston but most other top contenders as well. The way he threw away his title (and his legacy) against Ali, in the midst of what was basically an even fight, was absolutely disgraceful and inexcusable, and he didn't do anything afterward to even remotely redeem himself.

IMO, Joe Louis would've smashed him to pieces.

[histboxfan]

Hi all, just getting started here.

First, Collins2000, what a great post; I loved your pictures, and your sense of humor.

As for Liston... I'm not old enough to have seen his live fights on TV. Opinions sure seem to vary on his actual ability. Can anyone point me in the right direction to "see" his fights- other than with Ali; (which I have seen) and which may not give me an accurate view of Liston.

[My2Sense]

As for Liston... I'm not old enough to have seen his live fights on TV. Opinions sure seem to vary on his actual ability. Can anyone point me in the right direction to "see" his fights- other than with Ali; (which I have seen) and which may not give me an accurate view of Liston.

You'll naturally want to see his two blowouts of Floyd Patterson.

Probably his most celebrated pre-Patterson wins were over Cleveland Williams. Williams was a tall, lanky dynamite puncher. Both fights were mirror images of each other, with Williams unloading everything in his arsenal on Liston in the first round, and Liston taking his best shots and then roaring back. I think it was Liston's ability to withstand Williams' best shots and then come back that led people to label him as "invincible".

[pete]

I think My2Sense is on to something regarding Liston.He had a great jab,a hell of a left hook,and was pretty slow.His right was rather clubbing and the way he quit against Ali,twice(I believe they were both on the level,as far as no outside factors),leaves his legacy lacking.
He was a good fighter,probably a top 10 all-time heavy,but I believe most of them would handle him just fine.