Sad to see that the man who licked Conteh in 1978, Mate Parlov, has passed away. Southpaw Parlov won Olympic gold in 1972 (our own Chris Finnegan had beaten him in the '68 Games) and sparked Argentine banger Miguel Cuello to win the world light-heavyweight title a few years later. He definitely beat Conteh in defence of that title but weightmaking caught up with him against Marvin Johnson and he was stopped.
Parlov was a national hero in the then Yugoslavia.
Classic American West Coast Boxing
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
MEXICO UNDER SIEGE
Muting the music of mayhem
Don Bartletti / Los Angeles Times
Alfredo Madrigal, a member of Herederos de la Frontera, plays accordion for admiring fans at the Baby Rock club in Tijuana. His group specializes in traditional Norteño-style ballads.
As drug-related violence escalates, Tijuana is losing its taste for songs that glorify gangsters.
By Richard Marosi, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
TIJUANA -- The whiskey is flowing at La Cantina when Calor Norteña kicks out the accordion jams for a homage to gangster Arturo Villarreal, who rose from drug cartel protege to crime boss in a six-year reign of mayhem and murder.
"The law calls me a dangerous [criminal] so don't dare take me on because I have bullets to spare," the band members sing, as beer-swilling youths shout and long-nailed women twirl on the dance floor.
A changing tune in Tijuana"He was one of the top bosses, not some street dealer," says one man, explaining why he deems the convicted racketeer worthy of a narcocorrido. "He was a powerful man."
But the revelry proves too much for some patrons, who watch glumly or shake their heads. "It's horrible," says Leslie Guzman, a 25-year-old courier. "It glorifies the ugliness, the murder, the death. Everything this city is living right now. It's so sad."
Since drug traffickers set foot in this border city, Mexican musicians have strummed behind, chronicling their exploits in the traditional polka-based rhythms of the corrido. The sub-genre has been a soundtrack for the city, with cover bands like Calor Norteña sprinkling their repertoires with tunes about the city's most feared gunmen. But with drug war violence and kidnappings escalating, the narcocorridos are losing their swagger.
Radio stations have stopped playing the songs and promoters have banned the music from many public events. Nightclub owners ask bands to turn down narcocorrido requests. At the cavernous Las Pulgas nightclub downtown, managers banned the music two months ago -- a decision tantamount to West Hollywood's Whisky A Go-Go banning heavy metal hair bands in the 1980s.
Narcocorridos still draw legions of fans, despite government efforts to squelch the music. Calor Norteña played the song about Villarreal only because of repeated requests from hard-drinking bar-goers. But it was a momentary exception to a backlash that has succeeded like none before in changing people's attitudes toward the music, say members of several bands, nightclub owners, concert promoters and government officials.
They describe a growing dislike, even revulsion, for music that critics say celebrates the people terrorizing a community that has suffered at least 207 violent deaths this year. Attendance at narcocorrido concerts has dipped; bands say audiences request the music less and less, preferring dance and romantic tunes that take their minds off the city's troubles.
"Things are changing. . . . It's not like in the past, when people would hear corridos and shoot their guns in the air," said Mario Limon, the goateed accordion player for Los Linces Boyz, an ensemble that grew popular largely for singing narcocorridos. "Now, people would rather grab their girlfriends, squeeze close on the dance floor and kiss."
Narcocorridos are rooted in Mexico's musical story-telling tradition, which has immortalized revolutionary struggles, great romances and social movements.
Tijuana's emergence as a hotbed of narcocorrido music paralleled the rise of the local Arellano Felix drug cartel, one of Mexico's most powerful organized crime groups, during the 1990s.
Los Tucanes de Tijuana achieved stardom singing about hit men, bumbling U.S. agents and the rags-to-riches lives of the Arellano Felix family and other drug kingpins.
But the music of Los Tucanes is considered almost quaint compared with the songs of the new generation of bands that toast a new crop of gangsters, considered by many to be crueler and more indiscriminate in their crime sprees.
The harder-edged lyrics frequently name the gangsters (past songs spoke in more general terms) and sometimes carry threats. Recent narcocorridos glorify Jorge Briseño Lopez, known as El Cholo, a feared cartel lieutenant, and Raydel Lopez Uriarte, nicknamed Muletas, or Crutches, for allegedly leaving so many of his enemies with crippling injuries.
Blurring the lines between art and reality, some Tijuana musicians' lives have started resembling the lives of gangsters they sing about.
In February, the body of local singer Jesus Alfaro Pulido was found in a field, wrapped in a blanket and showing signs of torture. Last November, the lead singer of Explosion Norteña, Jose Alberto Cervantes Nieto, was arrested and charged with racketeering.
Last month, all the members of Banda Nueva Clave de Oro were arrested along with about 40 other organized crime suspects after police raided a baptism celebration where they were playing. One of their songs praises a group of Tijuana police officers fired in May, in a purge of corrupt cops.
Even outside such suspicious venues, narcocorridos can prove dangerous, bringing out the worst in crowds, band members and promoters say. The alcohol starts flowing and fights break out, especially if the narcocorridos are about gangsters from rival cartels.
But turning down requests often is not a viable option. Band members say they have been threatened and beaten for refusing to play certain songs. According to one local legend, crime boss Briseño Lopez once compelled a band to play a song six times in a row, after they refused his first request.
The cartels also dangle a quick path to success to many bands, offering to pay for recording sessions, tours and clothing.
"As a musician, you learn to know what's going on," said a member of one band who declined to be identified for fear of retribution. "You've got to be careful of who offers you fame. . . . It seems tempting at first. But there are consequences that come along with it."
The current campaign against narcocorridos began in April, after a bloody shootout here between rival gangs claimed the lives of 14 gunmen. Baja California Gov. Jose Guadalupe Osuna Millan asked radio stations to stop playing the music because, he said, it contributes to the crime problem.
"It was a call to citizens to reject narcocorridos and the culture of violence," said Maria Elena Rodriguez, the state deputy secretary of public security. "They glorify the gangster lifestyle. They tell kids: With guns you can gain riches."
But fans and other observers scoff at claims that the music turns fans into addicts or gangsters. For many, especially poor or working-class residents living on society's margins, the music's rebel spirit gives voice to frustrations and skepticism toward a government that facilitated the rise of the cartels and is believed to be either too inept or too corrupt to control the chaos.
"Corridos tell the truth," said Juan Tenorio, a 63-year-old retiree shopping for corrido recordings at a swap meet. "There are many other bad guys: the government. America's appetite for drugs, corrupt cops."
Whether true or mythical or a mix of both, narcocorridos for now are being muted.
The Pancho Villa bar, the most notorious narcocorrido venue, is a no-go zone for many fearful citizens after a cop was fatally shot there last year. Over at Las Pulgas downtown, DJs dealing with narcocorrido fans direct them to signs prohibiting the music. The only corrido music allowed now can't reference the gangster lifestyle. DJs call them Corridos Lite.
On a recent Friday night, about 300 people, among them teenage girls in mini-dresses and middle-aged men in cowboy hats, gathered at the Rock Disco for a battle of the bands. In the past, such contests would feature song after song about the Tijuana criminal underworld.
But most of the bands instead played rancheras, cumbias and other dance tunes, with no complaints from the audience.
"We're not playing any tonight," said Gerardo Espericueta, the 19-year-old accordion player for Los Plebes de Tijuana. "Our music is going in a different direction. We prefer playing romantic songs."
[email protected]
Muting the music of mayhem
Don Bartletti / Los Angeles Times
Alfredo Madrigal, a member of Herederos de la Frontera, plays accordion for admiring fans at the Baby Rock club in Tijuana. His group specializes in traditional Norteño-style ballads.
As drug-related violence escalates, Tijuana is losing its taste for songs that glorify gangsters.
By Richard Marosi, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
TIJUANA -- The whiskey is flowing at La Cantina when Calor Norteña kicks out the accordion jams for a homage to gangster Arturo Villarreal, who rose from drug cartel protege to crime boss in a six-year reign of mayhem and murder.
"The law calls me a dangerous [criminal] so don't dare take me on because I have bullets to spare," the band members sing, as beer-swilling youths shout and long-nailed women twirl on the dance floor.
A changing tune in Tijuana"He was one of the top bosses, not some street dealer," says one man, explaining why he deems the convicted racketeer worthy of a narcocorrido. "He was a powerful man."
But the revelry proves too much for some patrons, who watch glumly or shake their heads. "It's horrible," says Leslie Guzman, a 25-year-old courier. "It glorifies the ugliness, the murder, the death. Everything this city is living right now. It's so sad."
Since drug traffickers set foot in this border city, Mexican musicians have strummed behind, chronicling their exploits in the traditional polka-based rhythms of the corrido. The sub-genre has been a soundtrack for the city, with cover bands like Calor Norteña sprinkling their repertoires with tunes about the city's most feared gunmen. But with drug war violence and kidnappings escalating, the narcocorridos are losing their swagger.
Radio stations have stopped playing the songs and promoters have banned the music from many public events. Nightclub owners ask bands to turn down narcocorrido requests. At the cavernous Las Pulgas nightclub downtown, managers banned the music two months ago -- a decision tantamount to West Hollywood's Whisky A Go-Go banning heavy metal hair bands in the 1980s.
Narcocorridos still draw legions of fans, despite government efforts to squelch the music. Calor Norteña played the song about Villarreal only because of repeated requests from hard-drinking bar-goers. But it was a momentary exception to a backlash that has succeeded like none before in changing people's attitudes toward the music, say members of several bands, nightclub owners, concert promoters and government officials.
They describe a growing dislike, even revulsion, for music that critics say celebrates the people terrorizing a community that has suffered at least 207 violent deaths this year. Attendance at narcocorrido concerts has dipped; bands say audiences request the music less and less, preferring dance and romantic tunes that take their minds off the city's troubles.
"Things are changing. . . . It's not like in the past, when people would hear corridos and shoot their guns in the air," said Mario Limon, the goateed accordion player for Los Linces Boyz, an ensemble that grew popular largely for singing narcocorridos. "Now, people would rather grab their girlfriends, squeeze close on the dance floor and kiss."
Narcocorridos are rooted in Mexico's musical story-telling tradition, which has immortalized revolutionary struggles, great romances and social movements.
Tijuana's emergence as a hotbed of narcocorrido music paralleled the rise of the local Arellano Felix drug cartel, one of Mexico's most powerful organized crime groups, during the 1990s.
Los Tucanes de Tijuana achieved stardom singing about hit men, bumbling U.S. agents and the rags-to-riches lives of the Arellano Felix family and other drug kingpins.
But the music of Los Tucanes is considered almost quaint compared with the songs of the new generation of bands that toast a new crop of gangsters, considered by many to be crueler and more indiscriminate in their crime sprees.
The harder-edged lyrics frequently name the gangsters (past songs spoke in more general terms) and sometimes carry threats. Recent narcocorridos glorify Jorge Briseño Lopez, known as El Cholo, a feared cartel lieutenant, and Raydel Lopez Uriarte, nicknamed Muletas, or Crutches, for allegedly leaving so many of his enemies with crippling injuries.
Blurring the lines between art and reality, some Tijuana musicians' lives have started resembling the lives of gangsters they sing about.
In February, the body of local singer Jesus Alfaro Pulido was found in a field, wrapped in a blanket and showing signs of torture. Last November, the lead singer of Explosion Norteña, Jose Alberto Cervantes Nieto, was arrested and charged with racketeering.
Last month, all the members of Banda Nueva Clave de Oro were arrested along with about 40 other organized crime suspects after police raided a baptism celebration where they were playing. One of their songs praises a group of Tijuana police officers fired in May, in a purge of corrupt cops.
Even outside such suspicious venues, narcocorridos can prove dangerous, bringing out the worst in crowds, band members and promoters say. The alcohol starts flowing and fights break out, especially if the narcocorridos are about gangsters from rival cartels.
But turning down requests often is not a viable option. Band members say they have been threatened and beaten for refusing to play certain songs. According to one local legend, crime boss Briseño Lopez once compelled a band to play a song six times in a row, after they refused his first request.
The cartels also dangle a quick path to success to many bands, offering to pay for recording sessions, tours and clothing.
"As a musician, you learn to know what's going on," said a member of one band who declined to be identified for fear of retribution. "You've got to be careful of who offers you fame. . . . It seems tempting at first. But there are consequences that come along with it."
The current campaign against narcocorridos began in April, after a bloody shootout here between rival gangs claimed the lives of 14 gunmen. Baja California Gov. Jose Guadalupe Osuna Millan asked radio stations to stop playing the music because, he said, it contributes to the crime problem.
"It was a call to citizens to reject narcocorridos and the culture of violence," said Maria Elena Rodriguez, the state deputy secretary of public security. "They glorify the gangster lifestyle. They tell kids: With guns you can gain riches."
But fans and other observers scoff at claims that the music turns fans into addicts or gangsters. For many, especially poor or working-class residents living on society's margins, the music's rebel spirit gives voice to frustrations and skepticism toward a government that facilitated the rise of the cartels and is believed to be either too inept or too corrupt to control the chaos.
"Corridos tell the truth," said Juan Tenorio, a 63-year-old retiree shopping for corrido recordings at a swap meet. "There are many other bad guys: the government. America's appetite for drugs, corrupt cops."
Whether true or mythical or a mix of both, narcocorridos for now are being muted.
The Pancho Villa bar, the most notorious narcocorrido venue, is a no-go zone for many fearful citizens after a cop was fatally shot there last year. Over at Las Pulgas downtown, DJs dealing with narcocorrido fans direct them to signs prohibiting the music. The only corrido music allowed now can't reference the gangster lifestyle. DJs call them Corridos Lite.
On a recent Friday night, about 300 people, among them teenage girls in mini-dresses and middle-aged men in cowboy hats, gathered at the Rock Disco for a battle of the bands. In the past, such contests would feature song after song about the Tijuana criminal underworld.
But most of the bands instead played rancheras, cumbias and other dance tunes, with no complaints from the audience.
"We're not playing any tonight," said Gerardo Espericueta, the 19-year-old accordion player for Los Plebes de Tijuana. "Our music is going in a different direction. We prefer playing romantic songs."
[email protected]
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The above article is for diego..... 
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Rodgers gave Conteh a great fight before Conteh sparked him - get this - with a right hand. It proved that Conteh could still really throw it, but Rodgers literally forced his hand.kikibalt wrote:
John Conteh vs Leonardo Rodgers
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Conteh was not someone you wanted to spar in the gym. He was ruthless, in ANY ring.kikibalt wrote:
Joe Bugner & John Conteh
Bugner? Cooney busted his ribs in sparring, which sums up Bugner. Little Conteh would have murdered Cooney.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Hey Buddykikibalt wrote:The above article is for diego.....
My wiife is going to TJ today by herself to see El Momia(her brother). I remember when the Tucanes de Tijuana used to play in the lunch court at our school in San Ysidro for FREE! That was 15 years ago before they became famous.The school was 90% Mexican kids. Everyone danced to their music. The teachers would stand around watching all this. Some of the gringo teachers couldn't understand why these guys were so popular. Take it to the bank,amigo,the Mexican girls that went to Southwest High School I would put up there with any school in the country. Amazing!
The gringo dudes were jealous that these "Chulas" found the Tucanes so "macho". This dorky puss is standing next to me with his gut hanging out. A real basket case. He' s got this sour expressin on his face watching the kids dance.
"What do these girls find so interesting with these guys?" he asks me.
"This is the kind of music they like."
"But look at these guys. They're all fat and have big mustaches."
I could tell he wanted one of those "Chiquititas" real bad.
"Well,"I offered,"You've already got the gut. Maybe you need to grow a mustache."
BTW Answer my question about the Rodriguex/Griffith fight in L.A.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I will answer your question as soon as I have time to think about it.... 
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Rodriguez came over to Britain to fight Bunny Sterling in 1971 and was 'shot' to pieces. It was shocking, by all accounts, although he managed to go the full 10 with Sterling. Griffith's very last fight came against Alan Minter, who floored and outpointed him in Monte Carlo.kikibalt wrote:
Emile Griffith vs Luis Rodriguez
March 21, 1963, L.A.Ca.
In their prime these guys must have been special.
Last edited by bennie on 30 Jul 2008, 11:56, edited 1 time in total.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Frank,
At that school I worked at(Southwest High). I had the the kids that needed to make up credits. They called it the Learning Center. These kids had dropped out and were trying to get on track again. Remember me telling you about the girls? Well most of these girls got knocked up and had a kid. They were trying to graduate with a high school diploma.
As God is my witness. Well let me put it this way. Those pictures of Jessica Alba and Eva Mendez. I think I had them in my class at Southwest. Along with all their sisters and female cousins and nieces.
At that school I worked at(Southwest High). I had the the kids that needed to make up credits. They called it the Learning Center. These kids had dropped out and were trying to get on track again. Remember me telling you about the girls? Well most of these girls got knocked up and had a kid. They were trying to graduate with a high school diploma.
As God is my witness. Well let me put it this way. Those pictures of Jessica Alba and Eva Mendez. I think I had them in my class at Southwest. Along with all their sisters and female cousins and nieces.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Hey, Frankie, hope you don't mind me saying, but the death of Davey Moore clearly had a big effect on you.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Why do you say that, Bennie?bennie wrote:Hey, Frankie, hope you don't mind me saying, but the death of Davey Moore clearly had a big effect on you.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Benniebennie wrote:Hey, Frankie, hope you don't mind me saying, but the death of Davey Moore clearly had a big effect on you.
The death of Davy Moore certainly had an effect on Sugar Ramos. I used to read the Mexican fight magazines. They had some good inside info. Sugar Ramos at one time was seeing a psychiatrist to work out the depression he felt after the Moore fight. If you see the tape of that fight. Ramos does a tip of the head after each round acknowlodging Davy. Sugar Ramos was a real gentleman. He was different than Napoles. "Mantequilla" fit more into the macho image of the Latino fighter.
After Moore's death Ramos was never himself. It's strange. I have the tape of that fight. Frank was there. They're interviewing Moore. He says he feels tired and that he'll beat Ramos in the rematch. There's absolutely no indication that he was in trouble. Later he collapsed in the dressing room when taking a shower. A note on that. We had a local fighter here in San Diego named Spud Murphy. After a workout in his father's gym,he collapsed and died when taking a shower. After a workout it's important that when you turn on the faucet not to have too drastic a temperature,hot or cold. We had a fellow who died that way at our gym that I work out in a few weeks ago.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I often think what pro boxing would have been like without Jose Napoles,Sugar Ramos,Luis Rodriguez,and Jose Legra. They were thrilling to watch. When they left Cuba they brought with them a wealth of amatuer and pro experience. They had good trainers like Kid Rapidez. I had the opprtunity to watch Napoles and Rodriguez train. They were confident,skillfull,and had that presence and flair,a Cuban style that wasn't a "put on" for show. They had all the ounches and their feet were always in the right place.
I saw Legra on closed circuit beat Clemente Sanchez,the Feather Champ,knocking him down ten times. Legra was a master. He later lost a decision to Jofre in Brasil. They say the decision was close. His last fight he was KO'd in round one by Arguello in Nicaragua. After over 150 fights he was finished. But we'll never be finished remembering the thrilling fights they gave to boxing fans.
I saw Legra on closed circuit beat Clemente Sanchez,the Feather Champ,knocking him down ten times. Legra was a master. He later lost a decision to Jofre in Brasil. They say the decision was close. His last fight he was KO'd in round one by Arguello in Nicaragua. After over 150 fights he was finished. But we'll never be finished remembering the thrilling fights they gave to boxing fans.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
diego,dagosd2000 wrote:Hey Buddykikibalt wrote:The above article is for diego.....
My wiife is going to TJ today by herself to see El Momia(her brother). I remember when the Tucanes de Tijuana used to play in the lunch court at our school in San Ysidro for FREE! That was 15 years ago before they became famous.The school was 90% Mexican kids. Everyone danced to their music. The teachers would stand around watching all this. Some of the gringo teachers couldn't understand why these guys were so popular. Take it to the bank,amigo,the Mexican girls that went to Southwest High School I would put up there with any school in the country. Amazing!
The gringo dudes were jealous that these "Chulas" found the Tucanes so "macho". This dorky puss is standing next to me with his gut hanging out. A real basket case. He' s got this sour expressin on his face watching the kids dance.
"What do these girls find so interesting with these guys?" he asks me.
"This is the kind of music they like."
"But look at these guys. They're all fat and have big mustaches."
I could tell he wanted one of those "Chiquititas" real bad.
"Well,"I offered,"You've already got the gut. Maybe you need to grow a mustache."
BTW Answer my question about the Rodriguex/Griffith fight in L.A.
While cooking breakfast, doing dishs after having breakfast, cleaning house, I was trying to think of something about that fight and nothing comes to mind, it was not a fight like Ramos vs Moore or a fast ko like Cruz vs Torres, it was just not a fight that you're going to remember much about 45 years later.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Laurent Dauthuille
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Thanks Bennie.bennie wrote:Conteh turned pro at heavy but mainly because of the money thing. He soon realized he was a natural light-heavy and had no problems with the weight and swam through a tunnel for 15 rounds to lick Argentinian iron man Jorge Ahumada for the world title, although something left him mentally that night. The next day he stormed into promoter Harry Levene's Soho office and screamed "You don't know what it's like in there!" in his face.Expug wrote:Anyone know if Conteh had trouble making weight during his lightheavy days.kikibalt wrote:
John Conteh vs Matt Franklin
He was a classy fighter , nice style and tough too.
In that picture he looks a little drawn , like he sweat off more weight than would be comfortable for him.
Conteh was a great fighter and a great worker in the gym. If anything, he trained too hard. British fighters do. That's why many have short reigns as world champs. They burn out. This was Conteh's last great fight. He butted the life out of poor Saad and hurt him a few times but Saad pulled it out late. Conteh was essentially a one-handed fighter by this time, of course, so it was a great effort. Apparently his right hand got so bad it needed massaging for hours before he could even make it into a fist.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
It's no secret that Archie Moore liked jazz. Sorry,he loved jazz. He could talk jazz as good as he talked boxing. i think if he could play the bass well enough he would have hung up his gloves. The thing is he couldn't keep up with the cats he played with. I wrote a while back how I bumped into him at Huffman's Bar B Q in Logan. It was just him and a White Fish sandwich in the dining room,so he motioned me over. I knew what he had in mind. We could talk about THE music. Jazz music.
Everyone who met him for the first time or didn't know him very well wanted to talk boxing. As long as you let Archie do the talking,you could learn a few things. If you wanted to compete with him on the subject of boxing,well he'd put you on his Pay No Mind List and it was something like,"I promised the wife I'd be right home."
Now I'm not saying I knew the Mongoose that well. Why he'd been around the block more than once in his life. I was still tryin' to get to the corner. But he liked talking to me because we'd go on about the bop musicians. Parker,Gillespie,Bud Powell. The 52nd Street cats. To tell you the truth there weren't many Blacks in Southeast San Diego that appreciated the bop guys. For the old folks,it was Armstrong and Ellington. For the younger ones,it was Coltrane and Miles.
Archie was like me on this point. Coltrane and Miles started off playing the music,but then they went off on a tangent. Weird psychodelic sounds. Yeah me and Archie were on the same page when it came to our interests about jazz.
When I last talked to him about jazz,we both agreed that the commercialism of jazz really compromised the quality of it. The small clubs were gone.If there was anything going on ,you had to search for it . If it was the real stuff ,it wasn't going to come out to the public. You had to find it.
Music is one of the toughest things to write about. You can't describe it with words. But me and Archie knew. And so did Walcott ,Charles ,and Louis.Sure can't talk to those fellas.
I'll tell you what,if you want me to try to tell you what it was like,how 'bout lunch sometime at Huffmans in Logan? They make a great White Fish sandwich.
Everyone who met him for the first time or didn't know him very well wanted to talk boxing. As long as you let Archie do the talking,you could learn a few things. If you wanted to compete with him on the subject of boxing,well he'd put you on his Pay No Mind List and it was something like,"I promised the wife I'd be right home."
Now I'm not saying I knew the Mongoose that well. Why he'd been around the block more than once in his life. I was still tryin' to get to the corner. But he liked talking to me because we'd go on about the bop musicians. Parker,Gillespie,Bud Powell. The 52nd Street cats. To tell you the truth there weren't many Blacks in Southeast San Diego that appreciated the bop guys. For the old folks,it was Armstrong and Ellington. For the younger ones,it was Coltrane and Miles.
Archie was like me on this point. Coltrane and Miles started off playing the music,but then they went off on a tangent. Weird psychodelic sounds. Yeah me and Archie were on the same page when it came to our interests about jazz.
When I last talked to him about jazz,we both agreed that the commercialism of jazz really compromised the quality of it. The small clubs were gone.If there was anything going on ,you had to search for it . If it was the real stuff ,it wasn't going to come out to the public. You had to find it.
Music is one of the toughest things to write about. You can't describe it with words. But me and Archie knew. And so did Walcott ,Charles ,and Louis.Sure can't talk to those fellas.
I'll tell you what,if you want me to try to tell you what it was like,how 'bout lunch sometime at Huffmans in Logan? They make a great White Fish sandwich.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Hey Frank,
Put on some music.
Put on some music.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Davey Moore's death was somewhat a freak accident. When Ramos dropped him, the back of Moore's neck struck the bottom rope and caused a brain stem injury. Frank tells me that's why the lowest strand in California rings has extra padding.dagosd2000 wrote:Benniebennie wrote:Hey, Frankie, hope you don't mind me saying, but the death of Davey Moore clearly had a big effect on you.
The death of Davy Moore certainly had an effect on Sugar Ramos. I used to read the Mexican fight magazines. They had some good inside info. Sugar Ramos at one time was seeing a psychiatrist to work out the depression he felt after the Moore fight. If you see the tape of that fight. Ramos does a tip of the head after each round acknowlodging Davy. Sugar Ramos was a real gentleman. He was different than Napoles. "Mantequilla" fit more into the macho image of the Latino fighter.
After Moore's death Ramos was never himself. It's strange. I have the tape of that fight. Frank was there. They're interviewing Moore. He says he feels tired and that he'll beat Ramos in the rematch. There's absolutely no indication that he was in trouble. Later he collapsed in the dressing room when taking a shower. A note on that. We had a local fighter here in San Diego named Spud Murphy. After a workout in his father's gym,he collapsed and died when taking a shower. After a workout it's important that when you turn on the faucet not to have too drastic a temperature,hot or cold. We had a fellow who died that way at our gym that I work out in a few weeks ago.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKo0FK6-O-E
C. santan & B. Guy
C. santan & B. Guy
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Tom,raylawpc wrote:Davey Moore's death was somewhat a freak accident. When Ramos dropped him, the back of Moore's neck struck the bottom rope and caused a brain stem injury. Frank tells me that's why the lowest strand in California rings has extra padding.dagosd2000 wrote:Benniebennie wrote:Hey, Frankie, hope you don't mind me saying, but the death of Davey Moore clearly had a big effect on you.
The death of Davy Moore certainly had an effect on Sugar Ramos. I used to read the Mexican fight magazines. They had some good inside info. Sugar Ramos at one time was seeing a psychiatrist to work out the depression he felt after the Moore fight. If you see the tape of that fight. Ramos does a tip of the head after each round acknowlodging Davy. Sugar Ramos was a real gentleman. He was different than Napoles. "Mantequilla" fit more into the macho image of the Latino fighter.
After Moore's death Ramos was never himself. It's strange. I have the tape of that fight. Frank was there. They're interviewing Moore. He says he feels tired and that he'll beat Ramos in the rematch. There's absolutely no indication that he was in trouble. Later he collapsed in the dressing room when taking a shower. A note on that. We had a local fighter here in San Diego named Spud Murphy. After a workout in his father's gym,he collapsed and died when taking a shower. After a workout it's important that when you turn on the faucet not to have too drastic a temperature,hot or cold. We had a fellow who died that way at our gym that I work out in a few weeks ago.
You're right about it been a freak accident, and yes after that fight more padding was added to the lower strand.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 10:34 PM
Subject: A fighter needs YOU now...
If you guys know Drew then you know what a good guy he is. He called me the other day and this afternoon, VERY down. Understandably. Pass it on please
ICE
By Gary "Digital" Williams
Hurricane Dolly, which ravaged the southern part of Texas, claimed the house and possessions of a former Olympic boxing champion. Former world title contender and 1988 Olympic Gold medalist "Boxing" Andrew Maynard lost pretty much everything and his house is still submerged in Harlingen, TX near the Mexican border. Maynard is now living in his gym that he was using to train young boxers and he needs help in the worst way. If you would like to send a donation to help him out, please send it to this address: Andrew Maynard, 516 W. Van Buren Avenue, Harlingen, TX 78550
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 10:34 PM
Subject: A fighter needs YOU now...
If you guys know Drew then you know what a good guy he is. He called me the other day and this afternoon, VERY down. Understandably. Pass it on please
ICE
By Gary "Digital" Williams
Hurricane Dolly, which ravaged the southern part of Texas, claimed the house and possessions of a former Olympic boxing champion. Former world title contender and 1988 Olympic Gold medalist "Boxing" Andrew Maynard lost pretty much everything and his house is still submerged in Harlingen, TX near the Mexican border. Maynard is now living in his gym that he was using to train young boxers and he needs help in the worst way. If you would like to send a donation to help him out, please send it to this address: Andrew Maynard, 516 W. Van Buren Avenue, Harlingen, TX 78550
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
No real reason, Frankie. You were there with your wife and it seems like you remember it like it were yesterday.kikibalt wrote:Why do you say that, Bennie?bennie wrote:Hey, Frankie, hope you don't mind me saying, but the death of Davey Moore clearly had a big effect on you.