Classic American West Coast Boxing

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4afYmsjPJA
Bobby Chacon vs Danny "Lil Red" Lopez

[bennie]

Jack Dempsey & Joe Louis
15 September 1956

Jack Sharkey, "The Boston Gob", was the only man ever to have tackled Dempsey and Louis. Once asked to compare the two, Sharkey described Louis as "the kindest man I ever fought. Joe knocked me down five times and asked me if I was OK after each knockdown.
"Dempsey growled like an animal, throwing punches, and grunted, 'Aren't you dead yet?'"

[dagosd2000]

Jack Dempsey & Joe Louis
15 September 1956

Jack Sharkey, "The Boston Gob", was the only man ever to have tackled Dempsey and Louis. Once asked to compare the two, Sharkey described Louis as "the kindest man I ever fought. Joe knocked me down five times and asked me if I was OK after each knockdown.
"Dempsey growled like an animal, throwing punches, and grunted, "Aren't you dead yet?"

Interesting contrasts with Dempsey and Louis. Dempsey hit Sharkey on the break and knocked him cold. Louis had Conn tangled on the ropes in their first fight and stepped back until Billy could free himself.You can hear the crowd give Louis applause for that gesture. They changed the rules to have have a fighter go to a neutral corner after a knockdown because of Jack. He still didn't get that message in his second bout with Tunney. i think sometime if Louis had been fighting at Toledo. Would he have been smashing Willard as the big man was rising to his feet?

My dad knew Jack a little. They had lunch a few times in Chicago. Took my mother to his restaurant in the Apple. My mother ,who could size up men pretty good, said he was one of the kindest men she ever met. A real class gentleman.

Fighters are just an example of a microcosm of everyone. Complexities,contradictions,a variety of appearences. For such a violent sport,sometimes it's easy to equate violence with all aspects of men that take up that profession. I have many friends that wouldn't watch a boxing match on a bet. They think everything about it,the fighters,the fans,everthing about the sport is brutal. For animals. Disgusting.

Funny though. I've been with friends and I'll bump into a Pug on the street once in a while. I'll introduce my friend to him. There's some small talk,and then we'll be on our way. If I'm with someone who isn't particularly fond of boxing,I won't say what the fellow we just met does for a living. Sometimes my friend might ask,or if he doesn't,I'll say,"Oh by the way he's a professional fighter."

I wish I had a dollar for every,"Oh really"

[Expug]

Dagos ,I agree.
However , recently I was dissapointed in the behavior of one of our modern day champs, Floyd Mayweather jr.
I was working security backstage a year or so ago at a Beyonce concert and Mayweather and his , posse , security team were there.
It was him and about ten guys each about three hundred and fifty pounds. They were clownish in their behavior , but the main thing was Floyd walking around "Rapping" and dancing as if he was part of the show and Yapping on his cell phone in the press lounge with his feet up on the table where people eat there meals.
I thought I was gonna have a problem with these people , I really did.
All at once , they got up and left, which was good. It was obnoxious and behavior that I could never picture a guy like Joe Louis exhibiting.

[kikibalt]

A request from diego

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0ZjmkbRdY4
Los Tecolines

"Adios"

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpcWW5UIP6Y
"Sabor A Mi"
El Chicano

[dagosd2000]

Dagos ,I agree.
However , recently I was dissapointed in the behavior of one of our modern day champs, Floyd Mayweather jr.
I was working security backstage a year or so ago at a Beyonce concert and Mayweather and his , posse , security team were there.
It was him and about ten guys each about three hundred and fifty pounds. They were clownish in their behavior , but the main thing was Floyd walking around "Rapping" and dancing as if he was part of the show and Yapping on his cell phone in the press lounge with his feet up on the table where people eat there meals.
I thought I was gonna have a problem with these people , I really did.
All at once , they got up and left, which was good. It was obnoxious and behavior that I could never picture a guy like Joe Louis exhibiting.

Pug
I think the first time we talked to each other it was about this topic. Conduct of fighters in public. Like you said,most are very polite and considerate. My beef,and what you've just talked about,is the growing aggressive and disrespect fighters are beginning to display in public. In the above picture of Dempsy and Louis,here was a guy Dempsey who knew how to seperate away the violence after he climbed down from the ropes. Even guys like Mickey Walker and Harry Greb(could that be the Irish in them?)who had as many fights outside the ring ,knew how behave in front of women and children and older people.

Money Mayweather ,and his ilk,want to threaten people,and again it's characters like them that are bringing down sports. I played on an football team that was all Black guys. There was one guy who took a cheap shot at me. I retaliated immediately. I was physically and mentally conditioned to respond that way. After that incident we becme good friends. But Money knows that the people he's frightening can't retaliate. They have to hide from guys like him.

Pretty soon Irish,they'll be no more hiding places. Tomorrow at this time I will in one of the few that sre left. "Mi Rinconcito del Cielo". Translated says,"My Little Corner in Heaven."

Listen to the song Frank just posted for me . Close your eyes and listen. I think you'll understand.

[kikibalt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BFAoEcTnbs
"Perfidia"

Glenn Miller

[kikibalt]

[kikibalt]

Dagos ,I agree.
However , recently I was dissapointed in the behavior of one of our modern day champs, Floyd Mayweather jr.
I was working security backstage a year or so ago at a Beyonce concert and Mayweather and his , posse , security team were there.
It was him and about ten guys each about three hundred and fifty pounds. They were clownish in their behavior , but the main thing was Floyd walking around "Rapping" and dancing as if he was part of the show and Yapping on his cell phone in the press lounge with his feet up on the table where people eat there meals.
I thought I was gonna have a problem with these people , I really did.
All at once , they got up and left, which was good. It was obnoxious and behavior that I could never picture a guy like Joe Louis exhibiting.

Pug
I think the first time we talked to each other it was about this topic. Conduct of fighters in public. Like you said,most are very polite and considerate. My beef,and what you've just talked about,is the growing aggressive and disrespect fighters are beginning to display in public. In the above picture of Dempsy and Louis,here was a guy Dempsey who knew how to seperate away the violence after he climbed down from the ropes. Even guys like Mickey Walker and Harry Greb(could that be the Irish in them?)who had as many fights outside the ring ,knew how behave in front of women and children and older people.

Money Mayweather ,and his ilk,want to threaten people,and again it's characters like them that are bringing down sports. I played on an football team that was all Black guys. There was one guy who took a cheap shot at me. I retaliated immediately. I was physically and mentally conditioned to respond that way. After that incident we becme good friends. But Money knows that the people he's frightening can't retaliate. They have to hide from guys like him.

Pretty soon Irish,they'll be no more hiding places. Tomorrow at this time I will in one of the few that sre left. "Mi Rinconcito del Cielo". Translated says,"My Little Corner in Heaven."

Listen to the song Frank just posted for me . Close your eyes and listen. I think you'll understand.

diego,

Are you going to keep in touch while you're in your "Rinconcito"?

[kikibalt]

[dagosd2000]

A request from diego

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0ZjmkbRdY4
Los Tecolines

"Adios"

Pal
Tomorrow at this time,like I was tellin' Pug,I'll be in that little corner of heaven.I'll sit in the plaza with an ice cream cone. Ever tried "Nata"?They have this flavor in Europe and Mexico. It's my favorite. Very creamy and a rich vanilla nut flavor. They'll be happy children playing in the gazebo. Vendors selling sweet tamales"Chepos" off their carts. Women in the market place buying food for the day. Everything fresh out in the open. Brought in from the "ranchos" in the morning. . I see an old man selling different colored baloons. There's a the open front of the barbershop. There are no doors to go through. Only the bank has a door.A man is getting a shave with the straight razor sitting in the barber chair. The barber chair is old and ornate. Across the plaza women are making churros and hotcakes. Later in the afternoon,they'll be cooking birria and carnitas in the mercado. . My granddaughter will be teaching her class Flamenco at the Cultural Center. Afterwards,I'l take the girls to the the cafe around the the block for cappuchinos. I'll sit with the owner. I don't want to bother the girls. By the way there are girls of all ages. Little ones through adults. There's no seperation when it comes to dancing. There's no division brcause of skill levels. Everyone dances Flamenco. I'll give the owner of the cafe my painting of Lazaro Cardenas. I promised him last time i was there,I'd bring him a painting. He wanted me to do Lazaro Cardenas. Born in Jiquilpan. His house is protected. It's a museum. Cardenas and Juarez. The two good Presidents of Mexico.

After the girls finish. When they're ready we'll go back up the hill to my house. I'll sit on the porch. The old man will be across the street selling roasted corn "Elotes". People will be filing by to go to mass at the big Guadalupe Church on th corner. Some will be riding horses. Everyone that passes will say,"Buenos Tardes. Perhaps,"Dios". The old bells are ringing. My wife brings me a beer. In an hour or so I'll go inside. My nephew will come over with his wife and kids. My grandchildren will go with my nephew's kids and play in the park. I'll be in bed by the time they get back.

BTW,Frank I forgot to thank you for playing "Adios'

[bennie]

Dagos ,I agree.
However , recently I was dissapointed in the behavior of one of our modern day champs, Floyd Mayweather jr.
I was working security backstage a year or so ago at a Beyonce concert and Mayweather and his , posse , security team were there.
It was him and about ten guys each about three hundred and fifty pounds. They were clownish in their behavior , but the main thing was Floyd walking around "Rapping" and dancing as if he was part of the show and Yapping on his cell phone in the press lounge with his feet up on the table where people eat there meals.
I thought I was gonna have a problem with these people , I really did.
All at once , they got up and left, which was good. It was obnoxious and behavior that I could never picture a guy like Joe Louis exhibiting.

I've never liked Mayweather from his Olympic days when he lost fair and square to a Bulgarian in Atlanta in 1996 (I think, in the semis) and moaned and groaned he had been robbed (in his own country). No class. People say he is a great fighter but he couldn't win that gold medal. To me that is quite revealing.
Incidentally, Sugar Ray Leonard had time for everyone when he came over with a Contender Team to England last year. Ray signed autographs with a smile, chatted to fans, shook hands and just showed a lot of class.

[dagosd2000]

Dagos ,I agree.
However , recently I was dissapointed in the behavior of one of our modern day champs, Floyd Mayweather jr.
I was working security backstage a year or so ago at a Beyonce concert and Mayweather and his , posse , security team were there.
It was him and about ten guys each about three hundred and fifty pounds. They were clownish in their behavior , but the main thing was Floyd walking around "Rapping" and dancing as if he was part of the show and Yapping on his cell phone in the press lounge with his feet up on the table where people eat there meals.
I thought I was gonna have a problem with these people , I really did.
All at once , they got up and left, which was good. It was obnoxious and behavior that I could never picture a guy like Joe Louis exhibiting.

Pug
I think the first time we talked to each other it was about this topic. Conduct of fighters in public. Like you said,most are very polite and considerate. My beef,and what you've just talked about,is the growing aggressive and disrespect fighters are beginning to display in public. In the above picture of Dempsy and Louis,here was a guy Dempsey who knew how to seperate away the violence after he climbed down from the ropes. Even guys like Mickey Walker and Harry Greb(could that be the Irish in them?)who had as many fights outside the ring ,knew how behave in front of women and children and older people.

Money Mayweather ,and his ilk,want to threaten people,and again it's characters like them that are bringing down sports. I played on an football team that was all Black guys. There was one guy who took a cheap shot at me. I retaliated immediately. I was physically and mentally conditioned to respond that way. After that incident we becme good friends. But Money knows that the people he's frightening can't retaliate. They have to hide from guys like him.

Pretty soon Irish,they'll be no more hiding places. Tomorrow at this time I will in one of the few that sre left. "Mi Rinconcito del Cielo". Translated says,"My Little Corner in Heaven."

Listen to the song Frank just posted for me . Close your eyes and listen. I think you'll understand.

diego,

Are you going to keep in touch while you're in your "Rinconcito"?

They have a little internet cafe. Don't worry. Here's a good one. I get confused sometimes with the money. It's 5 pesos to use the computer for an hour. 5 pesos is 50 cents. Well I convert my dollars to pesos down there. They gave me some coins that said 50 on them. I didn't realize it was 50 centavos,a nickel. For the first few days I'd get up from the computer and place 50 centavos on the counter,a nickel, and thank the guy and leave. I thought I was leaving him 50 cents,or 5 pesos. I got home one day and thought about it. I had short changed this guy for 3 days. I got in my car and drove to the plaza. I have this guilty look on my face.
"Lo siento"(I'm sorry) .No entendi el dinero" (I didn't understand the money)
I put on the counter the money that I owed. The man laughed.
"No te precupas amigo. Yo sabia que vas a recordar." (Don't worry friend. I knew you will remember)
That's the way people are down there.

[kikibalt]

Dagos ,I agree.
However , recently I was dissapointed in the behavior of one of our modern day champs, Floyd Mayweather jr.
I was working security backstage a year or so ago at a Beyonce concert and Mayweather and his , posse , security team were there.
It was him and about ten guys each about three hundred and fifty pounds. They were clownish in their behavior , but the main thing was Floyd walking around "Rapping" and dancing as if he was part of the show and Yapping on his cell phone in the press lounge with his feet up on the table where people eat there meals.
I thought I was gonna have a problem with these people , I really did.
All at once , they got up and left, which was good. It was obnoxious and behavior that I could never picture a guy like Joe Louis exhibiting.

I've never liked Mayweather from his Olympic days when he lost fair and square to a Bulgarian in Atlanta in 1996 (I think, in the semis) and moaned and groaned he had been robbed (in his own country). No class. People say he is a great fighter but he couldn't win that gold medal. To me that is quite revealing.
Incidentally, Sugar Ray Leonard had time for everyone when he came over with a Contender Team to England last year. Ray signed autographs with a smile, chatted to fans, shook hands and just showed a lot of class.

Bennie,

I was around Leonard quite a bit in the 1980's and found him to be a nice guy, like you say "A class guy", I know that there is a lot of people that don't like him, and that I can't understand.

[Expug]

Dagos ,I agree.
However , recently I was dissapointed in the behavior of one of our modern day champs, Floyd Mayweather jr.
I was working security backstage a year or so ago at a Beyonce concert and Mayweather and his , posse , security team were there.
It was him and about ten guys each about three hundred and fifty pounds. They were clownish in their behavior , but the main thing was Floyd walking around "Rapping" and dancing as if he was part of the show and Yapping on his cell phone in the press lounge with his feet up on the table where people eat there meals.
I thought I was gonna have a problem with these people , I really did.
All at once , they got up and left, which was good. It was obnoxious and behavior that I could never picture a guy like Joe Louis exhibiting.

I've never liked Mayweather from his Olympic days when he lost fair and square to a Bulgarian in Atlanta in 1996 (I think, in the semis) and moaned and groaned he had been robbed (in his own country). No class. People say he is a great fighter but he couldn't win that gold medal. To me that is quite revealing.
Incidentally, Sugar Ray Leonard had time for everyone when he came over with a Contender Team to England last year. Ray signed autographs with a smile, chatted to fans, shook hands and just showed a lot of class.

Whats funny is Floyd acts very very young .
Hatton at one of there press conferences said he wasnt missing his own six year old as much as people might think because he was traveling around with another six year old (Floyd).
I laugh when I think of that now.

[bennie]

Hatton ripped Mayweather to pieces at a launch in Manchester before the fight. It got so personal, Sky Sports, who were screening the launch 'live' in this country, pulled the plug, in the most cowardly act of political correctness I've had the misfortune to witness.
Basically, Mayweather was OWNED.

[bennie]

Dagos ,I agree.
However , recently I was dissapointed in the behavior of one of our modern day champs, Floyd Mayweather jr.
I was working security backstage a year or so ago at a Beyonce concert and Mayweather and his , posse , security team were there.
It was him and about ten guys each about three hundred and fifty pounds. They were clownish in their behavior , but the main thing was Floyd walking around "Rapping" and dancing as if he was part of the show and Yapping on his cell phone in the press lounge with his feet up on the table where people eat there meals.
I thought I was gonna have a problem with these people , I really did.
All at once , they got up and left, which was good. It was obnoxious and behavior that I could never picture a guy like Joe Louis exhibiting.

I've never liked Mayweather from his Olympic days when he lost fair and square to a Bulgarian in Atlanta in 1996 (I think, in the semis) and moaned and groaned he had been robbed (in his own country). No class. People say he is a great fighter but he couldn't win that gold medal. To me that is quite revealing.
Incidentally, Sugar Ray Leonard had time for everyone when he came over with a Contender Team to England last year. Ray signed autographs with a smile, chatted to fans, shook hands and just showed a lot of class.

Bennie,

I was around Leonard quite a bit in the 1980's and found him to be a nice guy, like you say "A class guy", I know that there is a lot of people that don't like him, and that I can't understand.

I have to admit, Pug, I never liked Ray's acts of manipulation before a fight. When he made Donnie Lalonde sweat down to 168lbs for a world light-heavyweight title fight, I was apoplectic. The man was tinkering with tradition, here. With the benefit of hindsight, Mike Trainer was the low life (or incredibly shrewd, depending on how you look at it).

[dagosd2000]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BFAoEcTnbs
"Perfidia"

Glenn Miller

A real good one.

[dagosd2000]

Dagos ,I agree.
However , recently I was dissapointed in the behavior of one of our modern day champs, Floyd Mayweather jr.
I was working security backstage a year or so ago at a Beyonce concert and Mayweather and his , posse , security team were there.
It was him and about ten guys each about three hundred and fifty pounds. They were clownish in their behavior , but the main thing was Floyd walking around "Rapping" and dancing as if he was part of the show and Yapping on his cell phone in the press lounge with his feet up on the table where people eat there meals.
I thought I was gonna have a problem with these people , I really did.
All at once , they got up and left, which was good. It was obnoxious and behavior that I could never picture a guy like Joe Louis exhibiting.

I've never liked Mayweather from his Olympic days when he lost fair and square to a Bulgarian in Atlanta in 1996 (I think, in the semis) and moaned and groaned he had been robbed (in his own country). No class. People say he is a great fighter but he couldn't win that gold medal. To me that is quite revealing.
Incidentally, Sugar Ray Leonard had time for everyone when he came over with a Contender Team to England last year. Ray signed autographs with a smile, chatted to fans, shook hands and just showed a lot of class.

Bennie,

I was around Leonard quite a bit in the 1980's and found him to be a nice guy, like you say "A class guy", I know that there is a lot of people that don't like him, and that I can't understand.

I agree with Frank on this one. Leonard says in public with Hearns next to his side.
"I won the first fight,and Tommy won the second."
Ray could have even said something like,"Tommy SHOULD have won the second fight."
Ray says Tommy won the 2nd. fight.

A fighter "throwing" away a victory. Unprecedented.

[dagosd2000]

Dagos ,I agree.
However , recently I was dissapointed in the behavior of one of our modern day champs, Floyd Mayweather jr.
I was working security backstage a year or so ago at a Beyonce concert and Mayweather and his , posse , security team were there.
It was him and about ten guys each about three hundred and fifty pounds. They were clownish in their behavior , but the main thing was Floyd walking around "Rapping" and dancing as if he was part of the show and Yapping on his cell phone in the press lounge with his feet up on the table where people eat there meals.
I thought I was gonna have a problem with these people , I really did.
All at once , they got up and left, which was good. It was obnoxious and behavior that I could never picture a guy like Joe Louis exhibiting.

I've never liked Mayweather from his Olympic days when he lost fair and square to a Bulgarian in Atlanta in 1996 (I think, in the semis) and moaned and groaned he had been robbed (in his own country). No class. People say he is a great fighter but he couldn't win that gold medal. To me that is quite revealing.
Incidentally, Sugar Ray Leonard had time for everyone when he came over with a Contender Team to England last year. Ray signed autographs with a smile, chatted to fans, shook hands and just showed a lot of class.

Whats funny is Floyd acts very very young .
Hatton at one of there press conferences said he wasnt missing his own six year old as much as people might think because he was traveling around with another six year old (Floyd).
I laugh when I think of that now.

Remember the pre fight hype on HBO on that fight? Mayweather buys these electric scooters for his kids and HE'S playing with them driving through his house like an undisciplined rambunctious kid.

I'd like to see this guy mishandle his money and come back in 5 years and get his butt kicked and lose that undefeated record.

[dagosd2000]

Quick thought guys. The other day when the forum was down. Did they get rid of the 3 posts thing and you're out?

[bennie]

Except, an Ali fanatic would reply that Louis lost his four year voluntarily by joining the Army, and he never lost his boxing license; Ali was stripped of his crown and boxing license.

Ring Magazine still listed Clay(they never called him Ali)as the Heavyweight Champ during his 3 year exile.

I noticed something bizarre the other day. A flyer for Ali's controversial defence against Terrell also labels him "Clay".

[bennie]

[dagosd2000]

Except, an Ali fanatic would reply that Louis lost his four year voluntarily by joining the Army, and he never lost his boxing license; Ali was stripped of his crown and boxing license.

Ring Magazine still listed Clay(they never called him Ali)as the Heavyweight Champ during his 3 year exile.

I noticed something bizarre the other day. A flyer for Ali's controversial defence against Terrell also labels him "Clay".

Bennie
I mentioned this once,but when Ali made his first comeback fight in 1970 against Quarry,Tom Harmon(who was a big football star back in the 40's)the announcer,kept calling him Clay during the fight. I thiought the guy was showing a racist side to his personality that probably stemmed from his ignorance.(Usually works that way). The fight ends and Harmon says he's goping to interview"Clay." I ain't turnin' off the TV for nothin'.

This bozo Harmon gets to Ali ,puts the microphone in front of him ,and says."How's it goin' Champ?"

Not only was Harmon disrespecfull when he was on air,but he was a coward when he met Ali face to face.