Ali, The Comeback of 1980, What If...

[granberry]

Hmmm well I think he was being distracted by a pretty woman ringside,

But as you have pointed out before his style along with is arrogance could combine to create that "hole" or "oversight" you make such a big deal of. That makes him on occasion uniquely susceptible to the left hook.

I've never quite bought it....though that may have been a bit of a weakness and those with the best LH's got through on occasion the fact is that he avoided far more than got through. And with Frazier he was of course the best of the best in that dept.

Anyway I know where this goes...Ali's no good, he's an abomination, he had no skills, he was a fraud, he really didnt' care if your kids lived with roaches...yadda yadda yadda.

I'd have to see the Banks film at the moment of KD to know if he was inhaling or exhaling at the time. I suppose I should ask you what Banks was doing at the exact moment that Ali Knocked him down. Would you need to refer to the film? Or does the fact that Ali was knocked down in this fight make it such a sentinel moment that you have memorized every bit of it?

If so it must be painful to see that Banks KD and the finale of the TKO. My condolences to you on that.

And granberry, I really do believe that Ali did not want you livin' with roaches. But that's just one man's opinion.

I have asked buzz 5 times what Ali was doing at the exact moment Sonny Banks knocked him down with a left hook.

buzz doesn't know what boxing is, and he never will,

so he can't answer my very simple question.

As far as buzz knows, "boxing" is posting gibberish on an internet site.

buzz---the epitome of the dilletante.

[BoxBuzz]

Hmmm well I think he was being distracted by a pretty woman ringside,

But as you have pointed out before his style along with is arrogance could combine to create that "hole" or "oversight" you make such a big deal of. That makes him on occasion uniquely susceptible to the left hook.

I've never quite bought it....though that may have been a bit of a weakness and those with the best LH's got through on occasion the fact is that he avoided far more than got through. And with Frazier he was of course the best of the best in that dept.

Anyway I know where this goes...Ali's no good, he's an abomination, he had no skills, he was a fraud, he really didnt' care if your kids lived with roaches...yadda yadda yadda.

I'd have to see the Banks film at the moment of KD to know if he was inhaling or exhaling at the time. I suppose I should ask you what Banks was doing at the exact moment that Ali Knocked him down. Would you need to refer to the film? Or does the fact that Ali was knocked down in this fight make it such a sentinel moment that you have memorized every bit of it?

If so it must be painful to see that Banks KD and the finale of the TKO. My condolences to you on that.

And granberry, I really do believe that Ali did not want you livin' with roaches. But that's just one man's opinion.

I have asked buzz 5 times what Ali was doing at the exact moment Sonny Banks knocked him down with a left hook.

buzz doesn't know what boxing is, and he never will,

so he can't answer my very simple question.

As far as buzz knows, "boxing" is posting gibberish on an internet site.

buzz---the epitome of the dilletante.

Granny I know precisely what Ali was doing at that moment. And just like you I come here to learn not to teach. Now if you want to sign up for my course "Rudimentary boxing fundamentals 101" You will have to pay for that class just as anyone else. No freebies granny...sorry. If I did that for you I'd have to do it for everyone. My students mean a lot to me and I do not want alienate them by showing favorites.

[granberry]

buzz, the ultimate dilletante,

can't answer the simplest question when it comes to the actual subject.

He doesn't know what he is looking at.

WHAT WAS CLAY DOING at the moment Sonny Banks knocked Clay down with a single left hook?

Anyone who knows the mere basics of the subject and saw the fight could answer that in a second.

Answer the simple question, buzz.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I know the answer to this question

[BigJuicyHog]

Are you a robot Gran? All you do is repeat the same thing over and over. Who cares what Ali was doing when he got knocked down. What was Ali doing when he took his first dump of the say on Feb 4th, 1972? Does anyone care. Quit being ridiculous and make a point if you even have one.

[granberry]

Who cares what Ali was doing when he got knocked down. .

That is the epitome of the admitted dilletante on display.

They don't care to learn anything about the subject they think they have attached themselves to.

They don't have even a glimmer that a subject like boxing is anything other than a women's opinion fest.

WHAT WAS CLAY DOING when Sonny Banks knocked him down with a single left hook?

Dilletantes like buzz and hog can't even comprehend the question.

[granberry]

Still no answer to my simple question.

And there never will be.

Because dilettantes don't ever need to learn anything about the subjects they attach themselves to like parasites.

Dilettante --a person who takes up an art, activity, or subject merely for amusement, esp. in a desultory or superficial way; dabbler.

[BoxBuzz]

Still no answer to my simple question.

And there never will be.

Because dilettantes don't ever need to learn anything about the subjects they attach themselves to like parasites.

Dilettante --a person who takes up an art, activity, or subject merely for amusement, esp. in a desultory or superficial way; dabbler.

oh you mean a fan? Yep I like the sport. I think a few of us do.

Now I have a riddle for you....and if you'll answer me my riddle I will graciously give in and tell you exactly what Ali (as he prefers to be called these days though he did go by the name of Clay at that time) was doing at the time of the alleged incident in question. In other words I will indeed answer your question

But first my riddle.

How do you drive a moderately likeable old curmudgeon totaly bonkers?

[jomothepure]

Is there no alternative forum where you could seek proper debate free from the parasitic dilettantes of boxrec? Surely you are wasting your time here?

[BoxBuzz]

Is there no alternative forum where you could seek proper debate free from the parasitic dilettantes of boxrec? Surely you are wasting your time here?

please don't attempt to inculcate granberry into the PRBT....

[jomothepure]

Is there no alternative forum where you could seek proper debate free from the parasitic dilettantes of boxrec? Surely you are wasting your time here?

please don't attempt to inculcate granberry into the PRBT....

I was thinking more inoculate

[jomothepure]

I've got HAL running the odds on how a four way cage fight between granberry, edeescam, a mirror and a cuttle fish pans out. I've taken a provisional 9/2 on the cuttle fish because it doesn't resort to sexual or gender put-downs. Also my pen is low on ink.

[jomothepure]

Talking of questions not answered, could I possibly ask again granberry why you stick around here with the La Razas and shills and Dilettante when there are surely shill-free etc. forums to discuss boxing

[granberry]

Talking of questions not answered, could I possibly ask again granberry why you stick around here with the La Razas and shills and Dilettante when there are surely shill-free etc. forums to discuss boxing

Good question.

Some longtime boxing people I know have a great time glancing in here (they are not registered themselves) and looking at my posts.

They are all very puzzled by the cluelessness displayed by a certain number of the posters here.

One guy wrote to me of the frantic reaction to my posts by certain posters here,

"You offend their ignorance."

[Collins2000]

Talking of questions not answered, could I possibly ask again granberry why you stick around here with the La Razas and shills and Dilettante when there are surely shill-free etc. forums to discuss boxing

Good question.

Some longtime boxing people I know have a great time glancing in here (they are not registered themselves) and looking at my posts.

They are all very puzzled by the cluelessness displayed by a certain number of the posters here.

One guy wrote to me of the frantic reaction to my posts by certain posters here,

"You offend their ignorance."

Empirical evidence (ie the reaction of the real boxing guys in "the greatest thread ever" to your revelations) suggests this is mere fantasy on your part, granberry.

[granberry]

Talking of questions not answered, could I possibly ask again granberry why you stick around here with the La Razas and shills and Dilettante when there are surely shill-free etc. forums to discuss boxing

Good question.

Some longtime boxing people I know have a great time glancing in here (they are not registered themselves) and looking at my posts.

They are all very puzzled by the cluelessness displayed by a certain number of the posters here.

One guy wrote to me of the frantic reaction to my posts by certain posters here,

"You offend their ignorance."

Empirical evidence (ie the reaction of the real boxing guys in "the greatest thread ever" to your revelations) suggests this is mere fantasy on your part, granberry.

Comments from the west coast thread which boxrec's resident snake collins 'missed':

Granberry-

Good stuff amigo!

-Rick Farris

______________________________________________________

Granberry,

Your information on Yaqui Lopez in Philly, Saad Mahammad, etc. was great!

As an L.A. gym rat, I saw a lot of great wars between legendary Mexican champs, etc. However, Philly has always had this rep for great gym wars, and I was a fan of most of those great Philadelphia middle & welterweights.

This past Oct. we, Dan Hanley & I, interviewed Georgie Benton, who was inducted as a trainer. Unfortunatly, we didn't have the time that need be devoted to such a great source of history. I loved watching Benton fight, not to mention Bennie Briscoe, Harold Johnson, "Kitten" Hayward, Gypsy Joe Harris, etc.

Hopefully, Benton will attend our '08 WBHOF banquet. If so, we'll be prepared to do it as it should be done.

-Rick

__________________________________________________

Rick Farris writes that he would like to interview Georgie Benton.

Benton lost his own career sitting around and waiting.

He was a used as a ‘policeman’ in the overall agenda.

And then his career was over. His years as a fighter were gone.

WHY? Because Carter was supposed to get a title fight (which he then did) and Benton was a dutiful soldier for the people who were controlling things. Carter didn’t belong in the same ring with a fighter like Benton.

This is very interesting. Right after the WBHOF banquet ended last year, most of the boxers & guests, including myself, had rooms at the Hotel. I was with an old friend who helped us conduct the interviews and we went into the bar to have a drink. George Benton, and one of his son's who'd accompanied him, were sitting at the bar.

I took the stool next to Benton and bought he and his son a drink. Earlier in the evening we'd interviewed Benton, and Dan Hanley did a good job despite having no time to prepare. It was one of those on-the-spot things. I jumped in and we pulled a bit more out of George, however, it was what we discussed "off camera" in the bar that validates, in my mind, what you share in the above post.

I won't continue at this moment, as my wife of less than a week has plans for us. I fight with just about anybody, but I don't cross this Brazilian lady.

-Rick

______________________________________________________

Granberry,

That was one hell of a story, and it makes much more sense now to me as to why he looked so dramatically different in his fight versus Scott who he outclassed and then his poor showing vs Gregory. I never could figure out why he fought the way he did in that fight as that wasn`t his usual style and he threw almost no body punches either which he normaly did. A shame what happened to him as he had a lot of potential and was a very strong guy with a good head on his shoulders, would you happen to know what Jerry is up to these days and how he is doing by any chance?

[Collins2000]

That was before you started the bullshite though.

How do they respond to you now?

Oh, that's right, they don't. They just ignore you.

We (the lowest form of insect, according to you) also gave you a chance when you first appeared.

It was only when you started your "revelations" that people started to shun you or, as in my case, laugh in your stupid face.

[granberry]

Admit it Collins.

You walked FACE FIRST into this one.

LOL

Empirical evidence (ie the reaction of the real boxing guys in "the greatest thread ever" to your revelations) suggests this is mere fantasy on your part, granberry.

Comments from the west coast thread which boxrec's resident snake collins 'missed':

Granberry-

Good stuff amigo!

-Rick Farris

______________________________________________________

Granberry,

Your information on Yaqui Lopez in Philly, Saad Mahammad, etc. was great!

As an L.A. gym rat, I saw a lot of great wars between legendary Mexican champs, etc. However, Philly has always had this rep for great gym wars, and I was a fan of most of those great Philadelphia middle & welterweights.

This past Oct. we, Dan Hanley & I, interviewed Georgie Benton, who was inducted as a trainer. Unfortunatly, we didn't have the time that need be devoted to such a great source of history. I loved watching Benton fight, not to mention Bennie Briscoe, Harold Johnson, "Kitten" Hayward, Gypsy Joe Harris, etc.

Hopefully, Benton will attend our '08 WBHOF banquet. If so, we'll be prepared to do it as it should be done.

-Rick

__________________________________________________

Rick Farris writes that he would like to interview Georgie Benton.

Benton lost his own career sitting around and waiting.

He was a used as a ‘policeman’ in the overall agenda.

And then his career was over. His years as a fighter were gone.

WHY? Because Carter was supposed to get a title fight (which he then did) and Benton was a dutiful soldier for the people who were controlling things. Carter didn’t belong in the same ring with a fighter like Benton.

This is very interesting. Right after the WBHOF banquet ended last year, most of the boxers & guests, including myself, had rooms at the Hotel. I was with an old friend who helped us conduct the interviews and we went into the bar to have a drink. George Benton, and one of his son's who'd accompanied him, were sitting at the bar.

I took the stool next to Benton and bought he and his son a drink. Earlier in the evening we'd interviewed Benton, and Dan Hanley did a good job despite having no time to prepare. It was one of those on-the-spot things. I jumped in and we pulled a bit more out of George, however, it was what we discussed "off camera" in the bar that validates, in my mind, what you share in the above post.

I won't continue at this moment, as my wife of less than a week has plans for us. I fight with just about anybody, but I don't cross this Brazilian lady.

-Rick

______________________________________________________

Granberry,

That was one hell of a story, and it makes much more sense now to me as to why he looked so dramatically different in his fight versus Scott who he outclassed and then his poor showing vs Gregory. I never could figure out why he fought the way he did in that fight as that wasn`t his usual style and he threw almost no body punches either which he normaly did. A shame what happened to him as he had a lot of potential and was a very strong guy with a good head on his shoulders, would you happen to know what Jerry is up to these days and how he is doing by any chance?

[Collins2000]

In what way?

I told you they were quite happy to talk with you until you started the ridiculous revelations.

If anybody walked face first into anything it was you.

You started gibbering about how it was the greatest thread ever and how great it was to talk to real boxing people rather than the lowest form of insect and ali shills etc.

Then they dumped you. Hard.

[granberry]

Collins writes:

"You started gibbering about how it was the greatest thread ever"

I never said that. Are you 'confused' again, collins?

"and how great it was to talk to real boxing people rather than the lowest form of insect and ali shills etc."

That must have REALLY hurt your feelings.

LOL

[Goodnight, Irene]

"Do you always answer a question with a question?" - Jomo

It was good enough for Yoda, wasn't it?

[Gabrielle Bicknell]

May future Boxers, amateur and professional , watch and learn from his magnificenceand learn from his misjudgements.

Remember Cassius Clay
Watch and learn from Muhammed Ali.

A cruel disease but a proud man

you give inspiration to me and I hope to others.

[ben geoghegan]

Ali KO's all three men in 1 rd then advances to wrestlemania to KO hulk hogan

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Why are we speculating how shot fighters would perform?

It makes as much sense as speculating how Joe Montana would look if he decided on a comeback...