Does anyone see any similarity between...

[Gray-Fox]

Amir Khan and Zab Judah?

Both amazingly athletically gifted (speed mostly), but both have pretty weak boxing skills and weak chins to compete among the best p4p? I mean with Khan it remains to be seen how good he can be, but I see these two fighters as very similar.

[Coco]

I think one of Zab's problems is his life out of the ring, whereas that is not the case for Khan at all.
Chin wise I think Judah's resiliance probs are overplayed, mainly due to his chicken dance against Tzsyu.
Also the American may have an uneven temperament but Khan looks strong in that respect and has responded well then his chin has let him down

[black panther]

I'd agree with Coco, Zab isn't as chinny as once perceived; okay he's no Rocky Marciano when it comes to his chin but Kosta Tszyu is one helluva a puncher. Hatton kept him going backwards so he was unable to punch with his full force. This was good tactics by Hatton. I disagree that Khan is like Judah, Khan doesn't have the one-punch knockout ability of Judah but throws more combos and has a better work rate than Judah who always seems content to pot-shot. I think one of the reasons Zab was floored so many times earlier in his career is that he was a bit reckless.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Judahs been down against some feather fists though like Spinks and Pineda was it? been down a fair bit earlier in his career too.

Judahs mentally weak and lost his workrate, he used to throw countless punches in bunches when he faced Witter and he hasnt done that since Tyszu sparked him. He misses on throwing at plenty of punching opportnuties

Judah for a world class fighter makes horrible horrible mistakes. Leaning back with his hands down, I can't believe he still does this after he got his block knocked off against Tyszu for doing just that. Its the number 1 no no

The jury is still out on Khans chin for me, could turn out to be s not bad 1. Khan is nowhere near as fast or athletic as Judah though but hopefully will keep a better workrate

[Poncey]

Saying Zab has weak boxing skills is a bit unfair. For me he's a highly technical boxer, just doesn't apply himself properly (as someone's touched on, his out of the ring behaviour isn't great) and his focus seems to be lacking. He gave Floyd a bad time for at least 5 rounds, and showed brilliant ability on Sat in spurts. The second Spinks' performance, for me, was his best.

I just don't think he's suited as a Welter with the current crop.

[Dioufy]

I believe one of the main differences is that Khan does have a heart and a very good fighting will - if he's hurt, he will fight straight back (will probably be his downfall soon though), whereas Judah's seems to crumple when hurt.

[black panther]

Yeah I just don't get why he moved upto Welterweight. He only had one loss at that point to Kosta Tszyu(no shame in that) and held the WBO title. He could have hung about to face Hatton, Harris and Cotto(who I reckon he might have beaten at LWW). Stylistically he is/was a nightmare for Hatton. Despite a solid career and multiple world titles I still consider Judah to have underachieved somewhat. I don't think he'd have as many losses on his ledger if he'd stayed at LWW.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Saying Zab has weak boxing skills is a bit unfair. For me he's a highly technical boxer, just doesn't apply himself properly (as someone's touched on, his out of the ring behaviour isn't great) and his focus seems to be lacking. He gave Floyd a bad time for at least 5 rounds, and showed brilliant ability on Sat in spurts. The second Spinks' performance, for me, was his best.

I just don't think he's suited as a Welter with the current crop.

Hes certainly not technical in terms of keeping his gloves up and leaning back while moving backwards (when your not even taller than your opponent) is very very poor technically. His footwork and movement can be nice but put him right in front of his opponent (you cant move forever) and his lack of guard gets him battered ever time, as does him not getting his hands off first despite being the faster fighter, as does him not even throwing counters when he does slip something

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Yeah I just don't get why he moved upto Welterweight. He only had one loss at that point to Kosta Tszyu(no shame in that) and held the WBO title. He could have hung about to face Hatton, Harris and Cotto(who I reckon he might have beaten at LWW). Stylistically he is/was a nightmare for Hatton. Despite a solid career and multiple world titles I still consider Judah to have underachieved somewhat. I don't think he'd have as many losses on his ledger if he'd stayed at LWW.

He foolishly told Tyszu pre-fight 'Winner takes all, no rematch' so afterwards Kostya said FINE

Hatton removed himself from Judahs mandatory position of WBO after Judah picked up that belt, Cotto was taking ages developing, Gatti was in cotton whool waiting to cash out, a Harris fight brought no money AND there was a massive fight for undisputed Welterweight title against Spinks

[observer1]

I still think Khan's [Lack of] Chin is talked about too much.
So far i have only seen him Knocked down when he gets too excited and anxious to KO his opponent. When he trys throwing 10 haye-makers a second, the odd counter hook from his opponenet will eventually hit him. i would say most boxers will go down when being hit in the face whilst throwing 100's of left and right hands.

The posotives are that Khan has not really looked hurt when knocked down, and got straight back up.

Zab on the other hand just had/has a really attitude problem. The arrogance he has is usually refelct in the ring leading to stupid things. I mean, even his infamous "Chicken Dance" can be linked to his arrogance. Zab is a good fighter, but if his head was screwed on better, could have been better.

Khan on the other hand is on the right road, just needs to pace himself.

[Old bones Ian]

Judah's chin isn't to bad, he's been stopped twice by huge punching Tszyu, and big puncher Cotto.

There's no shame in that, as both those guys could really take any other boxer out.

I'm not that keen on Judah's behavior in or out of the ring sometimes, but do respect him for taking on the best in each division he's fought in. Tszyu, Witter, Corley, Spinks, Baldomir, Mayweather Jnr and Cotto.

[dan-b]

Personally I don't see too much of a similarity. Judah frustrates me in that he could have been so much more whereas, at the moment, Khan is showing nothing to suggest he will compete at the kind of level Judah has. Judah will, at least, fight anyone & is one of the few men in boxing history to have competed for the undisputed crown at two weight classes. Okay he lost the first one but he took the fight.

Judah has suffered under his fathers tutelagem, he is not a world class trainer & is instructions between rounds amount to nothing more than "come on baby, you can do this" etc. Despite all this he is a two weight champion (undisputed at 147), who knows what he could have done with a better trainer.

He has handspeed, the ability to fight on the inside and underated power. He doesn't have a poor chin, he's been knocked out by world class operators. Khan on the otherhand has been floored by a non puncher & a man who is way past his best. His infighting skills have not been developed at all since he turned pro, he still doesn't know how to clinch properly.

I don't want to sound like a doomsayer but I think the best we can hope for from Khan is a vacant WBO shot & a string of defences against mediocre opposition unless, of course, he suddenly shows he has progressed massively since the Gomez fight but, given the quality of his next opponent, that would appear unlikely.

[Carbo]

Judah's main problem is his mental frailty. He had all the skills to push on and be something special, but it appears he had neither the in-ring mental fortitude nor the out of the ring discipline needed for success. He should never have lost to Baldomir, which turned out to be beautifully representative of his career. In the first half of the fight, he was cruising, before seeming to lose all interest in winning. "How the bejeezus did he lose that?", I wondered at the time.

A better question would be, 'How did Judah move from being a fighter who entered his Tszyu fight as favourite and used to give Max Kellerman naughty feelings in his special place to the fighter we see today?'

I don't think Khan has the same power, or, indeed, the overall wow-factor Judah the prospect had, but I simply can't imagine a mentally weaker fighter than Judah.

And, by the way, Judah does have chin problems. OK, he was hit by an exorcet in the Tszyu fight, but Spinks had him down, too, and I seem to remember there were question marks hanging over his chin before the Tszyu fight. Had he not had a couple of shocks/near escapes early in his career? I suspect Judah's problem with his chin is a bit to do with balance, and a bit to do with the fact he was one of those fighters who tend to get zapped by single, even innocuous punches if caught right. Khan, on the other hand, just seems to have a weak chin. He was but down in the ams (by Watson?), and he was nearly starched by Willy Limmond, who isn't exactly the second coming of Khaosai Galaxy.

[twenty six]

None whatsoever - Judah is a far better boxer than Khan.

[Scrap]

Zab has far better control of his Coxxyx than Amir.

[Arbachakov]

Judah was never anything special and he didn't have that much talent beyond athleticism and power.Technically he's always been sub-par.

A very sloppy fighter who's flashiness appealed to some, but really had no depth to his style at world level.Also a six round fighter in regards to mental toughness-very much an "on-top" mentality.

Maybe Kahn won't even be world class, but the bar is at least set low if we are comparing him to someone like Judah.

[Scrap]

Youve lost me there, but if thats how you see it.

[twenty six]

Arbach,
Eh ?
Judah - "He had athleticism and power but not much else" ?
Mmmm - what's Khan got ?

[DIRT SUGAR]

I just think Khan needs to be remodelled to suit the pro game better. His youth and athleticism allowed him to succeed in the unpaid ranks, whereas he's struggled to adapt as a pro. He reminds me in that aspect of former American light-heavyweight Andrew Maynard. A standout amateur with all the tools, some serious power, but never really found his feet in the pros and as the fights got harder he just didn't develop and in the end lost his way, getting bowled over in a round by an ageing Tommy Hearns.

I think with the current amateur scoring system I think promoters are going to have to dig a little deeper to find the pro stars of the future. Someone said it's more like 'fencing with gumshields' and after watching a fair few of the bouts I'll sadly have to agree to some aspects (and I'm not denigrating in anyway the hard work these lads put in by saying it's a sport for softies. It's not).

[Captain Hook]

I just think Khan needs to be remodelled to suit the pro game better. His youth and athleticism allowed him to succeed in the unpaid ranks, whereas he's struggled to adapt as a pro. He reminds me in that aspect of former American light-heavyweight Andrew Maynard. A standout amateur with all the tools, some serious power, but never really found his feet in the pros and as the fights got harder he just didn't develop and in the end lost his way, getting bowled over in a round by an ageing Tommy Hearns.

I think with the current amateur scoring system I think promoters are going to have to dig a little deeper to find the pro stars of the future. Someone said it's more like 'fencing with gumshields' and after watching a fair few of the bouts I'll sadly have to agree to some aspects (and I'm not denigrating in anyway the hard work these lads put in by saying it's a sport for softies. It's not).

Good post. Maynard could punch, great potential but it was never realised, a la David Reid.

[stujones]

I can't see the similarity except maybe for Handspeed.

Lets just see Khan lose before writing him off. Judah's main issues are mental aswell as fitness wise. Khan did switch off against Gomez, but I am convinced that was primilarly because of the fact he hurt Gomez and felt stronger physically than Gomez. He was switched on for 12 rounds against St Clair - something I don't think I have ever seen Judah do.

[Poncey]

He was switched on for 12 rounds against St Clair - something I don't think I have ever seen Judah do.

That's a really good point. Against Witter he was complaining to the ref, however maybe he did against Ryan Davis. But I don't think the fight was filmed.

[Gray-Fox]

Looks like I wasn't far wrong with this comparison.

[twenty six]

You are not seriously suggesting Judah would have lost to Prescott are you ?

[Bard of Boxrec]

I fail to see any similarities at all.

At worst, Judah has beaten some decent names and can compete with the world's best and has only lost to the best. At best, he is capable of ruling 140 as it is, if he moves down.

I'll leave it there.