If there was NO Muhammad Ali

[p4p1]

no granberry?

[Robinson]

Ray Leonard and Larry Holmes would get more attention,
he would still post here, but would have less opponents to
debate with.

[Collins2000]

Ray Leonard and Larry Holmes would get more attention,
he would still post here, but would have less opponents to
debate with.

Debate, Kym?

I've never seen him debate any issue in here. Calling people shills and homos isn't really debating is it?

Has he responded to your PM's yet?

[Robinson]

Ok... debate is the wrong word.
:)

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Ray Leonard and Larry Holmes would get more attention,
he would still post here, but would have less opponents to
debate with.

Ray's whole career is an imitation of Ali right up to his choice of manager...

How could he get more attention?

It seems he had more crossover appeal for any boxer post Ali with the exception of Mike Tyson and Old George Foreman...

[TheOneIsHere2008]

no granberry?

He would be on some history board opining that the U S A would have been a better place if the Confederacy won the Civil War...And would be calling Union sympathizers Lincoln shills...

Or that the United States should not have declared war on Germany in WW 11 and focused exclusively on the Japanese...

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Boxing would be less popular.

Boxing always needs an Ali, a Leonard, a DeLaHoya, a Mayweather, and yes, even a Tyson to extend its reach beyond the hard core fan...

[elmersalsa]

Conditioning is a good indication of a fighter's mental preparation for a fight. Frazier was fatter for Foreman, he was expecting an easy fight, when he got nailed, he may not have reacted as he would if he was at his best. In addition, at his best he might have been moving better and been harder to hit.
The 13 added pounds on Buster Douglas' 6-4 frame might not have made him perform as poorly as he did against Holyfield, but the 13 pounds showed that Buster did not prepare as he had prepared for Tyson.
A fighter has to be mentally and physically ready to fight. Added weight often shows where a fighter is mentally as well as physically for a particular fight.

I agree with you DaveV17

[elmersalsa]

You could also just as easily say that Frazier weight for the Foreman fight was out of line. Maybe he didn't weigh those extra few pounds.

You also just as easily say that Ellis was overconfident against Frazier as you could say that Frazier was supposedly overconfident against Foreman.

What happened, happened. Foreman beat Frazier. Frazier beat Ellis. No excuses. That's what happened. End of story.

We cannot see it that way Alp. Frazier in the fight of the century was a MONSTER. After TFOTC, Frazier was not as busy, was heavier and was not as hungry. Maybe because he won 2 million dollars with Ali.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

I tend to agree with Alp...

If Frazier fought Jimmy Ellis one hundred times he would beat Jimmy Ellis one hundred and one times... That's why both their fights ended similarly, Jimmy Ellis wasn't strong enough to hang with Joe Frazier...