Camacho vs. Leonard

[dcatron]

Just curious if anyone knows how the fight ended besides being a TKO? I've always been curious if it was just a cut or if Hector actually knocked Ray down at any point. Thanks! Dennis

[TonyJ]

If i recall correctly he dropped Ray acouple of times and then just finished him off with unanswered blows.

[Dave1armedTua]

Tony summed it up pretty well. Sugar had no business fighting Camacho at that age.,

[dcatron]

Thanks guys!

[Jaclem]

One of my favorite fights (along with the norris one) showed camacho could really fight if he knew his opponent couldn't hurt him. Leonard claimed his right leg was injured so he couldn't get power into his right hand. I think this was just a pitiful excuse, but if it was true he defrauded the public by going into a fight when he wasn't capable of giving a good effort.

Some decades ago...a new york boxing commisioner..could have been christenberry or maybe even egan...got so mad about fighters claiming prior injuries as an excuse for losing, he thought about having them sign an affidavit before the the fight stating they were in top fighting condition. Then if they later made the injury claim, they would be legally guilty of fraud, or at least subject to a heavy fine by the commission. Nothing ever came of it, but I thought at the time it was a good idea and i still do.

[jsc1973]

Tony summed it up pretty well. Sugar had no business fighting Camacho at that age.,

He had no business fighting anyone at that age. Although I wish he'd taken on Duran one more time so Roberto could have beaten him half to death.

[p4p1]

it was a bad day for boxing when they fought

[TheOneIsHere2008]

One of my favorite fights (along with the norris one) showed camacho could really fight if he knew his opponent couldn't hurt him. Leonard claimed his right leg was injured so he couldn't get power into his right hand. I think this was just a pitiful excuse, but if it was true he defrauded the public by going into a fight when he wasn't capable of giving a good effort.

Some decades ago...a new york boxing commisioner..could have been christenberry or maybe even egan...got so mad about fighters claiming prior injuries as an excuse for losing, he thought about having them sign an affidavit before the the fight stating they were in top fighting condition. Then if they later made the injury claim, they would be legally guilty of fraud, or at least subject to a heavy fine by the commission. Nothing ever came of it, but I thought at the time it was a good idea and i still do.

Camacho beat a forty year old man who had been retired for five years.What does beating shot fighters really prove?

It proves that Leonard was

a) really brave to take the fight

b) really stupid to take the fight

c) really missed fighting

or

d) some combination of the above.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Tony summed it up pretty well. Sugar had no business fighting Camacho at that age.,

He had no business fighting anyone at that age. Although I wish he'd taken on Duran one more time so Roberto could have beaten him half to death.

He gave Duran a shot when he was past it (33) and beat him in nine or ten rounds rounds in a twelve round fight...

But, yeah, my money is on a shot Duran over a shot Ray Leonard because Ray's prowess in the ring was predicated on the gifts of youth-hand-eye cooridantion, reflexes, and speed...

[Elton John]

Just curious if anyone knows how the fight ended besides being a TKO? I've always been curious if it was just a cut or if Hector actually knocked Ray down at any point. Thanks! Dennis

Keep in mind that this is a 35 year old well past his prime Camacho. Dont believe all nonsense that only Leonard was past it-that's just another excuse to help ease the pain of losing-they both were over the hill. And Hector was soundly beaten by Duran that's why Ray Leonard came out in case anyone wants to know. He just thought he could do it better than Duran and that's what brought him out-so he could show up Duran ("anything Duran could do I can do better")

Of course it wasn't the same Camacho that showed up for the Duran fight either. If it were, Leonard would have beat him. Ray would have beat Duran too. Ray Leonard could always beat Duran in a fight except the one that showed up in Montreal.

As for Leonard's age it is not unusual for fighters to come back at this late stage. Look at George Foreman, Hopkins, others. Even the once great Roy Jones is still going at it. He thought Hector was a safe opponent. WHo didnt?


Going into the details of this fight, this was actually a very well fought contest if you're Hector Camacho.

Leonard would rip an occasional right hand left hook combo that sent the crowd into a wild frenzy but that's about as far as he got-getting the crowd excited for no real reason. in fact didn't cause Hector the iron chinned to blink. Hector scored enough to take the first round. It would be the only round that was close.

Round two

Hector takes a right hand flush that gives Ray added courage. Hector starts to hold Ray behind the head and pound the head with his free hand, an illegal tactic, but nevertheless Ray can do nothing about and the ref doesnt see it. This paid off handsomely later in the fight.

Round three, Ray drops his hands and Hector makes him pay for it. Hector's left drives Leonard stumbling back helplessly across the ring.

Round 4, Hector butts Leonard in close and opens a cut over his left eye. Ray's corner works on between rounds.

Round 5-the fatal finish

Ray comes out, his head bowed in defeat as Hector smiles from across the ring as if to say "I'm coming for you". Hector slams two hard lefts into Ray's face as he tries to get away. You can tell Ray doesn't want it anymore and regrets his decision to come out. Hector once again grabs him from behind the head, pulling it down while slamming an uppercut and pounding the temple. The ref doesnt see it so there's nothing Ray can do about it. Ray is hurt and is visibly turning purple, his head one big bruise. Hector comes in immediately, ray tries a right but is beat to the punch. Hector's handspeed is brialliant as he once more recaptues glimpse reminders of his timeless youth. BLAM! A left crashes into leonard's chin with an audible thud and down goes Ray.

Ray clambers to his feet unsteadily. Hector moves in and forces Leonard to the ropes. Right hook left hook body-head-body. Just a marvelous assault that appalls the crowd. The punches are flying almost to fast to see. Leonard's body groans from it's mortal wounds as he gives up the ghost. The crowd weeping bitterly. What was to be a coming out party and the forcasted humiliation of Hector Camacho, turns into a horror story, reminiscent of the movie "Carrie"

If you listen carefully you can hear someone nearby in the crowd saying "unbelievable it's just unbelievable". Jon Saraceno choking up in tears, cannot so much as give his opinion on the fight.

hector has now added the scalp of ray Leonard to his collection of champions he defeated throughout his career and expanded his resume. Hall of famer. Three time World Champion. Legend and the only champion to go undefeated throught the ENTIRE length of the 1980s

[bennie]

Just curious if anyone knows how the fight ended besides being a TKO? I've always been curious if it was just a cut or if Hector actually knocked Ray down at any point. Thanks! Dennis

Keep in mind that this is a 35 year old well past his prime Camacho. Dont believe all nonsense that only Leonard was past it-that's just another excuse to help ease the pain of losing-they both were over the hill. And Hector was soundly beaten by Duran that's why Ray Leonard came out in case anyone wants to know. He just thought he could do it better than Duran and that's what brought him out-so he could show up Duran ("anything Duran could do I can do better")

Of course it wasn't the same Camacho that showed up for the Duran fight either. If it were, Leonard would have beat him. Ray would have beat Duran too. Ray Leonard could always beat Duran in a fight except the one that showed up in Montreal.

As for Leonard's age it is not unusual for fighters to come back at this late stage. Look at George Foreman, Hopkins, others. Even the once great Roy Jones is still going at it. He thought Hector was a safe opponent. WHo didnt?


Going into the details of this fight, this was actually a very well fought contest if you're Hector Camacho.

Leonard would rip an occasional right hand left hook combo that sent the crowd into a wild frenzy but that's about as far as he got-getting the crowd excited for no real reason. in fact didn't cause Hector the iron chinned to blink. Hector scored enough to take the first round. It would be the only round that was close.

Round two

Hector takes a right hand flush that gives Ray added courage. Hector starts to hold Ray behind the head and pound the head with his free hand, an illegal tactic, but nevertheless Ray can do nothing about and the ref doesnt see it. This paid off handsomely later in the fight.

Round three, Ray drops his hands and Hector makes him pay for it. Hector's left drives Leonard stumbling back helplessly across the ring.

Round 4, Hector butts Leonard in close and opens a cut over his left eye. Ray's corner works on between rounds.

Round 5-the fatal finish

Ray comes out, his head bowed in defeat as Hector smiles from across the ring as if to say "I'm coming for you". Hector slams two hard lefts into Ray's face as he tries to get away. You can tell Ray doesn't want it anymore and regrets his decision to come out. Hector once again grabs him from behind the head, pulling it down while slamming an uppercut and pounding the temple. The ref doesnt see it so there's nothing Ray can do about it. Ray is hurt and is visibly turning purple, his head one big bruise. Hector comes in immediately, ray tries a right but is beat to the punch. Hector's handspeed is brialliant as he once more recaptues glimpse reminders of his timeless youth. BLAM! A left crashes into leonard's chin with an audible thud and down goes Ray.

Ray clambers to his feet unsteadily. Hector moves in and forces Leonard to the ropes. Right hook left hook body-head-body. Just a marvelous assault that appalls the crowd. The punches are flying almost to fast to see. Leonard's body groans from it's mortal wounds as he gives up the ghost. The crowd weeping bitterly. What was to be a coming out party and the forcasted humiliation of Hector Camacho, turns into a horror story, reminiscent of the movie "Carrie"

If you listen carefully you can hear someone nearby in the crowd saying "unbelievable it's just unbelievable". Jon Saraceno choking up in tears, cannot so much as give his opinion on the fight.

hector has now added the scalp of ray Leonard to his collection of champions he defeated throughout his career and expanded his resume. Hall of famer. Three time World Champion. Legend and the only champion to go undefeated throught the ENTIRE length of the 1980s

Not the entire length. He turned pro in September 1980.
Julio Cesar Chavez turned pro in February 1980 and never lost in the 1980s.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

As for Leonard's age it is not unusual for fighters to come back at this late stage. Look at George Foreman, Hopkins, others. Even the once great Roy Jones is still going at it. He thought Hector was a safe opponent. WHo didnt?

-Elton John

George Foreman came back against club fighters and then worked himself up to elite competition...He didn't fight a former champion off the bat...

Bernard Hopkins has been fighting more or less continuously for twenty years...Dittio for Roy Jones...Ray Leonard hadn't fought for six years and had only two fights in the last eight years...

Camacho beat up a forty year old man who hadn't fought in six years and hadn't won a fight in nine years...

[Elton John]

That's okay he didnt do so hot with Norris either even with the activity

[TheOneIsHere2008]

That's okay he didnt do so hot with Norris either even with the activity

Elton John

Correct...He had only had a two year hiatus prior to the Norris fight...

A more balanced review would include his record when he was in his prime and fighting continuously where he was 31-1 and had avenged that solitary defeat in glorious fashion..

hector has now added the scalp of ray Leonard to his collection of champions he defeated throughout his career and expanded his resume.

-Elton John

He's still fighting...Angelo Dundee is managing him... He wants Mayweather or DeLaHoya...They won't take it because there's no money in it...I wish they would :P but I'd hate to see Angee in the losing corner...

[Elton John]

That's okay he didnt do so hot with Norris either even with the activity

Elton John

Correct...He had only had a two year hiatus prior to the Norris fight...

From December 1989 when he had his last fight until Feb. 9, 1991 is much closer to 1 year.

Tell me, is 14 months closer to 12 months or is it closer to 24 months?

One year is hardly a layoff by today's standards and especially by Sugar Ray's standards..

That's all I have to say for now. THis has been Elton John who gives much better than he gets, signing off for now.

[Elton John]

Winners get bragging rights. Losers just retire for 6 years.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

delete

[TheOneIsHere2008]

That's okay he didnt do so hot with Norris either even with the activity

Elton John

Correct...He had only had a two year hiatus prior to the Norris fight...

From December 1989 when he had his last fight until Feb. 9, 1991 is much closer to 1 year.

Tell me, is 14 months closer to 12 months or is it closer to 24 months?

One year is hardly a layoff by today's standards and especially by Sugar Ray's standards..

That's all I have to say for now. THis has been Elton John who gives much better than he gets, signing off for now.

As for Leonard his hiatuses from boxing were understandable...My uncle was a professional boxer in the thirties...He had a detached retina...There was no laser back then...He had three surgeries, all unsuccessful...But God bless him he lived to 88 with one blind eye......I digress...It took brass ones every time Leonard got in the ring after his diagnosis and surgery...

Leonard was also fighting a man more than a decade younger who had remained active...


Back to the "Macho Man" SRL is still ranked much higher on Ring Magazine's and ESPN's ATG list:

http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=86363

Wow- Macho Camacho is not even listed...Do you think it's a latent bias against his WWE inspired costumes?

Do you wonder why Larry Holmes is ranked much higher than say, errr, Brian Nielsen or George Foreman is ranked much higher than Tommy Gunn or Shannon Briggs despite their victories over them when they were in the twilight of his career?

Since you're from SoCal you might appreciate this...I credit Camacho's win over a 40 year old Leonard as much as I credit a 24 year old Kobe Bryant outplaying a geriatric 39 year old Michael Jordan...

TheOneIsHere2008

P.S. Elton, I have heard or read every argument the Ali and Leonard haters have ever made...They love to cite the Norris, Camacho, Holmes, and Berbick fights when their nemesises were well past it but the sentient ones are really too ashamed to bring up the Holmes and Berbick fights, the Parkisons and all...

It's ironic or maybe it isn't...They never criticize the men for what they did in their prime...How could they? They beat up everybody that was put in front of them and on those rare occasions that they didn't they got it right the second time...

As you can see I have detected your animus toward Ray Charles Leonard...Pray tell, who of Ray's contemporaries could have beat him in in his prime in the welterweight division? And since none did with the exception of the exquistely avenged Duran decision why didn't they?

[elmersalsa]

Leonard was waaaayyyy past his prime when he fought a waaaayyy past his prime Camacho. One was inactive for 6 years and one was busy fighting all that time.

[granberry]

Don't they allow any of you to see this fight?

Camacho made an ass out of Leonard.

It was embarrassing the way Camacho took advantage of Leonard's total cluelessness in handling a southpaw.

Camacho knocked Leonard across the ring with his straight left hand in the first round.

He knocked Leonard out later with the same punch.

Leonard couldn't get anything started to save his life.

Leonard was completely out at the end of the fight.

The ref held Leonard upright against the ropes by pressing his body against Leonard---otherwise Leonard would have been out on his back.

Leonard's face was chopped up badly.

Then classless Leonard tried to make excuses after the fight by claiming he had an injury.

The only injuries he had were those Camacho gave him.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Don't they allow any of you to see this fight?

Camacho made an ass out of Leonard.

It was embarrassing the way Camacho took advantage of Leonard's total cluelessness in handling a southpaw.

Camacho knocked Leonard across the ring with his straight left hand in the first round.

He knocked Leonard out later with the same punch.

Leonard couldn't get anything started to save his life.

Leonard was completely out at the end of the fight.

The ref held Leonard upright against the ropes by pressing his body against Leonard---otherwise Leonard would have been out on his back.

Leonard's face was chopped up badly.

Then classless Leonard tried to make excuses after the fight by claiming he had an injury.

The only injuries he had were those Camacho gave him.

Beating shot fighters proves nothing

-granberry

If you were one quarter the man Ray Charles Leonard was in the ring you would be sixteen times the man you are now.

:P

P.S. Last I checked , granmama, Marvin Hagler was a southpaw, and a top ten middleweight ATG and Leonard beat him...

What was the difference, granmama?

I'll tell you...

Granmama, Ray Leonard, Mr. Leonard to you, son was 30 and not 40 years old...


:P


And it wasn't as bad as the beating Gerry Cooney gave your boy ,a thirty one year old Jimmy Young,but nobody care because he was a never was, a nobody!

[Elton John]

As for Leonard his hiatuses from boxing were understandable...My uncle was a professional boxer in the thirties...He had a detached retina...There was no laser back then...He had three surgeries, all unsuccessful...But God bless him he lived to 88 with one blind eye......I digress...It took brass ones every time Leonard got in the ring after his diagnosis and surgery...

Leonard was also fighting a man more than a decade younger who had remained active...


Back to the "Macho Man" SRL is still ranked much higher on Ring Magazine's and ESPN's ATG list:

http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=86363

Wow- Macho Camacho is not even listed...Do you think it's a latent bias against his WWE inspired costumes?

Do you wonder why Larry Holmes is ranked much higher than say, errr, Brian Nielsen or George Foreman is ranked much higher than Tommy Gunn or Shannon Briggs despite their victories over them when they were in the twilight of his career?

Since you're from SoCal you might appreciate this...I credit Camacho's win over a 40 year old Leonard as much as I credit a 24 year old Kobe Bryant outplaying a geriatric 39 year old Michael Jordan...

TheOneIsHere2008

P.S. Elton, I have heard or read every argument the Ali and Leonard haters have ever made...They love to cite the Norris, Camacho, Holmes, and Berbick fights when their nemesises were well past it but the sentient ones are really too ashamed to bring up the Holmes and Berbick fights, the Parkisons and all...

It's ironic or maybe it isn't...They never criticize the men for what they did in their prime...How could they? They beat up everybody that was put in front of them and on those rare occasions that they didn't they got it right the second time...

As you can see I have detected your animus toward Ray Charles Leonard...Pray tell, who of Ray's contemporaries could have beat him in in his prime in the welterweight division? And since none did with the exception of the exquistely avenged Duran decision why didn't they?

I understand your frustration friend. You like the rest of the world truly believed ray Leonard, 1976 Gold medalist and media star would pull out another miracle and shut big mouth Camacho. I wanted it too. EVERYONE felt Leonard would get easy prey as he did when he lucked out with marvin Hagler ten years earlier. But instead of getting a beaten cabbage left over from the Duran fight, out pops a fighting mad tiger who made him collapse into a paroxysm of fear.

As for your excusing Ray Leonard for not fighting we both know it's rubbish, saying it took brass balls for Ray Leonard to get back in the ring. You can't possibly be as gullible as you let on. Your uncles is one thing I'm sure but ray Leonard with his tens of millions in the bank was not nearly as strapped for cash as your uncle. In other words he doesnt have sufficient motivation for such a move. So rather than having brass balls that would take him back to the ring, the real reson is contrary to having brass balls. He hadn't the balls to continue the game when sizing up the future competition.

Now let's talk about what makes Hector great. He was well past shot,,weboth know that. As humiliating as Leonard's loss to Norris, he lost to a man who would always beat him no matter the date, the time, the place. It's just a fact of life and there's no shame in losing to your betters. But Hector Camacho should never been allowed near a ring again after the kind of beatdown he recieved from Chavez five years earlier.

This should be similar to the cries of outrage that accompanied the defeat of ray Mancini at the hands of livingstone Bramble. Only Hector's defeat was far more crushing. Hector Camacho should have had his license taken from him for the sake of his health. Leonard too probably should not have been fighting but seeing as how he was being matched up with Hector Camacho he would seem the perfect opponent since one was just as pathetic as the other.

But after all was said and done,Hector had more inside where it counts and that's why he won.

As for the reason why none of the aforementioned opponents did not defeat Leonard in rematches the reason is quite simple: Ray Leonard did not grant rematches. He was legendary for picking his opponents with a careful eye on their progression or rather digression.

Sure he finally took the fight with Marvin Hagler but Marvin was too far gone for it to amount to anything. Instead of proving himself against the top rising stars; Micheal Nunn, Frank Tate, Julian Jackson, Mike McCallum, kalambay he took the easy route against repeats -tired old fighters Duran, Hearns, anonymities Don lalonde.

If you're looking for the reason why Duran did not win the rematch, the fact that the former lightweight was 40 pounds over the weight limit might have had something to do with it. As a defeated Ray leonard pouted and contemplated retirement, word got to him that the 190 pound lightweight would most likely have major problems getting into proper fighting weight in time for a rematch and sure enough you know the rest of the story.

Conditioning also played a major role in hearns' defeat. The 145 pounder lost this in the late rounds having little to do with Leonard's performance being that he only won two rounds by the end of the 12th but predictably, Tommy lost it in the late rounds where his strength failed. Put the blame where it belongs, on Steward, not on Ray Leonard.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

As for Leonard his hiatuses from boxing were understandable...My uncle was a professional boxer in the thirties...He had a detached retina...There was no laser back then...He had three surgeries, all unsuccessful...But God bless him he lived to 88 with one blind eye......I digress...It took brass ones every time Leonard got in the ring after his diagnosis and surgery...

Leonard was also fighting a man more than a decade younger who had remained active...


Back to the "Macho Man" SRL is still ranked much higher on Ring Magazine's and ESPN's ATG list:

http://forum.boxrec.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=86363

Wow- Macho Camacho is not even listed...Do you think it's a latent bias against his WWE inspired costumes?

Do you wonder why Larry Holmes is ranked much higher than say, errr, Brian Nielsen or George Foreman is ranked much higher than Tommy Gunn or Shannon Briggs despite their victories over them when they were in the twilight of his career?

Since you're from SoCal you might appreciate this...I credit Camacho's win over a 40 year old Leonard as much as I credit a 24 year old Kobe Bryant outplaying a geriatric 39 year old Michael Jordan...

TheOneIsHere2008

P.S. Elton, I have heard or read every argument the Ali and Leonard haters have ever made...They love to cite the Norris, Camacho, Holmes, and Berbick fights when their nemesises were well past it but the sentient ones are really too ashamed to bring up the Holmes and Berbick fights, the Parkisons and all...

It's ironic or maybe it isn't...They never criticize the men for what they did in their prime...How could they? They beat up everybody that was put in front of them and on those rare occasions that they didn't they got it right the second time...

As you can see I have detected your animus toward Ray Charles Leonard...Pray tell, who of Ray's contemporaries could have beat him in in his prime in the welterweight division? And since none did with the exception of the exquistely avenged Duran decision why didn't they?

I understand your frustration friend. You like the rest of the world truly believed ray Leonard, 1976 Gold medalist and media star would pull out another miracle and shut big mouth Camacho. I wanted it too. EVERYONE felt Leonard would get easy prey as he did when he lucked out with marvin Hagler ten years earlier. But instead of getting a beaten cabbage left over from the Duran fight, out pops a fighting mad tiger who made him collapse into a paroxysm of fear.

As for your excusing Ray Leonard for not fighting we both know it's rubbish, saying it took brass balls for Ray Leonard to get back in the ring. You can't possibly be as gullible as you let on. Your uncles is one thing I'm sure but ray Leonard with his tens of millions in the bank was not nearly as strapped for cash as your uncle. In other words he doesnt have sufficient motivation for such a move. So rather than having brass balls that would take him back to the ring, the real reson is contrary to having brass balls. He hadn't the balls to continue the game when sizing up the future competition.

Now let's talk about what makes Hector great. He was well past shot,,weboth know that. As humiliating as Leonard's loss to Norris, he lost to a man who would always beat him no matter the date, the time, the place. It's just a fact of life and there's no shame in losing to your betters. But Hector Camacho should never been allowed near a ring again after the kind of beatdown he recieved from Chavez five years earlier.

This should be similar to the cries of outrage that accompanied the defeat of ray Mancini at the hands of livingstone Bramble. Only Hector's defeat was far more crushing. Hector Camacho should have had his license taken from him for the sake of his health. Leonard too probably should not have been fighting but seeing as how he was being matched up with Hector Camacho he would seem the perfect opponent since one was just as pathetic as the other.

But after all was said and done,Hector had more inside where it counts and that's why he won.

As for the reason why none of the aforementioned opponents did not defeat Leonard in rematches the reason is quite simple: Ray Leonard did not grant rematches. He was legendary for picking his opponents with a careful eye on their progression or rather digression.

Sure he finally took the fight with Marvin Hagler but Marvin was too far gone for it to amount to anything. Instead of proving himself against the top rising stars; Micheal Nunn, Frank Tate, Julian Jackson, Mike McCallum, kalambay he took the easy route against repeats -tired old fighters Duran, Hearns, anonymities Don lalonde.

If you're looking for the reason why Duran did not win the rematch, the fact that the former lightweight was 40 pounds over the weight limit might have had something to do with it. As a defeated Ray leonard pouted and contemplated retirement, word got to him that the 190 pound lightweight would most likely have major problems getting into proper fighting weight in time for a rematch and sure enough you know the rest of the story.

Conditioning also played a major role in hearns' defeat. The 145 pounder lost this in the late rounds having little to do with Leonard's performance being that he only won two rounds by the end of the 12th but predictably, Tommy lost it in the late rounds where his strength failed. Put the blame where it belongs, on Steward, not on Ray Leonard.

As for your assertion that Terry Norris could always beat Leonard I'll defer to Pat Putnam who received the 1982 Nat Fleischer Award for excellence in boxing journalism:


"Some observers said that in Norris , Leonard would be facing a younger version of himself. Fast and quick-fisted, Norris has patterned himself after Leonard, whom he idolizes. He is only an imitation, however. Norris is good—he has won 27 of 30 fights—but Leonard was great. At the same age, Leonard would have knocked Norris out in three rounds. That is no knock at Norris . There was only one Joe Louis , one Sugar Ray Robinson , one Muhammad Ali—and one Sugar Ray Leonard ."

As for the first Hearns fight he beat Tommy because he was the better boxer and wanted it a little more..."Sometimes a cigar is juat a cigar."

As for the Duran fight it's not Ray Leonard's responsibility to ensure Duran shows up in shape...As Cus D'Amato famously said a boxer with skill and character will often beat a boxer with more skill and less character... That excuse reminds me of all the excuses for Tyson losing...Tyson only lost because his head wasn't right...Maybe he lost because his opponents were just better or maybe "having your head on right" is a prerequisite for success in any endeavor...

Camcho had about twenty five fights prior to Leonard and after losing to Chavez...He won twenty three of them...He evidently had a lot more left than Leonard...In his next fight he went the distance with a much younger, larger, hungrier, and stronger Oscar DeLaHoya who was no slouch...In fact he was 25-0 at the time!!!

Camacho beat a shot fighter...If you want to confer greatness on Hector Camacho for that fact there is nothing I can do to deter you...Let me guess...You think Sultan Ibragimov is the GOAT as well...After all he beat Evander Holyfield...

It reminds me of when James Toney was running around the ring like he beat a prime Joe Louis when actually he beat a way past it Evander Holyfield...