Camacho vs. Leonard

[generic screen name]

This was a really sad fight to see. The guy that Camacho fought wasn't 1/20th the fighter he was. Even if you hate Sugar Ray Leonard, you know for a fact that this wasn't a shell of himself.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

This was a really sad fight to see. The guy that Camacho fought wasn't 1/20th the fighter he was. Even if you hate Sugar Ray Leonard, you know for a fact that this wasn't a shell of himself.

I applaud your brevity...And even if you contend that both of them were shot who cares if one was more shot than the other...

It reminds me of Larry Holmes wanting to fight George Foreman when they both were fifty...As that would give us some clue as to how they would have performed when they both were thirty...

Boxing and seniors tours don't really go together...

[Elton John]

As for your assertion that Terry Norris could always beat Leonard I'll defer to Pat Putnam who received the 1982 Nat Fleischer Award for excellence in boxing journalism:


"Some observers said that in Norris , Leonard would be facing a younger version of himself. Fast and quick-fisted, Norris has patterned himself after Leonard, whom he idolizes. He is only an imitation, however. Norris is good—he has won 27 of 30 fights—but Leonard was great. At the same age, Leonard would have knocked Norris out in three rounds. That is no knock at Norris . There was only one Joe Louis , one Sugar Ray Robinson , one Muhammad Ali—and one Sugar Ray Leonard ."

Thank God! All we need is for a trend to start. Boxers claiming eye injuries while retiring at will. "My eye's hurting, I can't fight today! 5 years later-"my eye's just fine! Who said I can't box?"

As for the first Hearns fight he beat Tommy because he was the better boxer and wanted it a little more..."Sometimes a cigar is juat a cigar."

The better boxer doesn't lose all the rounds that he did, doesn't have the kind of problems demonstrated by the first guy who shows him the slightest bit of movement, and doesn't have his trainer yell at him "you're blowing it son!"

Didn't you know that?

As for the Duran fight it's not Ray Leonard's responsibility to ensure Duran shows up in shape...As Cus D'Amato famously said a boxer with skill and character will often beat a boxer with more skill and less character... That excuse reminds me of all the excuses for Tyson losing...Tyson only lost because his head wasn't right...Maybe he lost because his opponents were just better or maybe "having your head on right" is a prerequisite for success in any endeavor...

He may not have been responsible but after hearing the "good news" he was certainly eager for the rematch he had no stomach for before! And it still made the difference in the fight so why brag about beating someone who's sweated off ten pounds in the last 3 days? If I were you I wouldn't brag about it anymore than Ali would brag about taking out Cleveland Williams who is handicapped with a bullet thru him. Capiche?

Camcho had about twenty five fights prior to Leonard and after losing to Chavez...He won twenty three of them...He evidently had a lot more left than Leonard...In his next fight he went the distance with a much younger, larger, hungrier, and stronger Oscar DeLaHoya who was no slouch...In fact he was 25-0 at the time!!!

anyone with the proper management, could build up a record of 25-0. The Chavez and Dela Hoya fights clearly put it all in proper perspective. Hector Camacho was a lifeless shell and a punching bag.

[granberry]

[. Last I checked , granmama, Marvin Hagler was a southpaw, and a top ten middleweight ATG and Leonard beat him...

For those who swallow everything Sports Illustrated--Bert Sugar--Thomas Hauser feed them,

Leonard "beat" Hagler.

LOL

But not for anyone who knows what boxing is.

Running for your life and clinching is not a way to beat anyone, unless your name is Ray Leonard (or Ali).

Camacho made an ASS out of poor Leonard.

And knocked him cold.

That hurts, doesn't it, TheOne[collins].

[granberry]

I'll defer to Pat Putnam who received the 1982 Nat Fleischer Award for excellence in boxing journalism:

That I believe.

LOL

Pat Putnam was FLAMING shill for Ali and Ray Leonard.

That's how he kept his job at Sports Illustrated.

And you, TheOne[collins], swallow every word flaming shill Pat Putnam wrote.

[granberry]

I'll defer to Pat Putnam who received the 1982 Nat Fleischer Award for excellence in boxing journalism:

Translation:

That means that Pat Putnam was a buddy of Bert Sugar, who put out the rag filled with mistakes which was what remained of the RING magazine at that time.

Nat Fleischer died in the early 1970's.

Nat Fleischer wouldn't have walked across the street to spit in flaming Ali shill Pat Putnam's face.

[Elton John]

I'll defer to Pat Putnam who received the 1982 Nat Fleischer Award for excellence in boxing journalism:

That I believe.

LOL

Pat Putnam was FLAMING shill for Ali and Ray Leonard.

That's how he kept his job at Sports Illustrated.

And you, TheOne[collins], swallow every word flaming shill Pat Putnam wrote.

Let's not forget William Nack who also wrote articles for Sports Illustrated. He had the Norris-Leonard fight at 116-112.

I'm sure there's an award out there for him as well.

[granberry]

I'll defer to Pat Putnam who received the 1982 Nat Fleischer Award for excellence in boxing journalism:

That I believe.

LOL

Pat Putnam was FLAMING shill for Ali and Ray Leonard.

That's how he kept his job at Sports Illustrated.

And you, TheOne[collins], swallow every word flaming shill Pat Putnam wrote.

Let's not forget William Nack who also wrote articles for Sports Illustrated. He had the Norris-Leonard fight at 116-112.

I'm sure there's an award out there for him as well.

Putnam, Nack, Mark Kram

all scrambled to keep their Sports Illustrated jobs by shilling for all they were worth.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

delete

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Putnam, Nack, Mark Kram

all scrambled to keep their Sports Illustrated jobs by shilling for all they were worth.

-granberry

Perhaps if you had a real job like those gentlemen had you wouldn't be the only octogenerian employee at 7-11...Please do something about those toilets, mate, they are filthy.And remember, employees must always wash their hands...

Respectfully,

Your Daddy


:P

[TheOneIsHere2008]

[. Last I checked , granmama, Marvin Hagler was a southpaw, and a top ten middleweight ATG and Leonard beat him...

For those who swallow everything Sports Illustrated--Bert Sugar--Thomas Hauser feed them,

Leonard "beat" Hagler.

LOL

But not for anyone who knows what boxing is.

Running for your life and clinching is not a way to beat anyone, unless your name is Ray Leonard (or Ali).

Camacho made an ASS out of poor Leonard.

And knocked him cold.

That hurts, doesn't it, TheOne[collins].

It doesn't hurt as much as the cylindrical objects that your young friends (sic) with the broad , shaven backs insert into orifices of yours that decent folks dare not mention.

The fact that you get your rocks off seeing old men get beat up tells me exactly the type of woman you are...

Respectfully,

Your Daddy


:P

[TheOneIsHere2008]

As for your assertion that Terry Norris could always beat Leonard I'll defer to Pat Putnam who received the 1982 Nat Fleischer Award for excellence in boxing journalism:


"Some observers said that in Norris , Leonard would be facing a younger version of himself. Fast and quick-fisted, Norris has patterned himself after Leonard, whom he idolizes. He is only an imitation, however. Norris is good—he has won 27 of 30 fights—but Leonard was great. At the same age, Leonard would have knocked Norris out in three rounds. That is no knock at Norris . There was only one Joe Louis , one Sugar Ray Robinson , one Muhammad Ali—and one Sugar Ray Leonard ."

Thank God! All we need is for a trend to start. Boxers claiming eye injuries while retiring at will. "My eye's hurting, I can't fight today! 5 years later-"my eye's just fine! Who said I can't box?"

As for the first Hearns fight he beat Tommy because he was the better boxer and wanted it a little more..."Sometimes a cigar is juat a cigar."

The better boxer doesn't lose all the rounds that he did, doesn't have the kind of problems demonstrated by the first guy who shows him the slightest bit of movement, and doesn't have his trainer yell at him "you're blowing it son!"

Didn't you know that?

As for the Duran fight it's not Ray Leonard's responsibility to ensure Duran shows up in shape...As Cus D'Amato famously said a boxer with skill and character will often beat a boxer with more skill and less character... That excuse reminds me of all the excuses for Tyson losing...Tyson only lost because his head wasn't right...Maybe he lost because his opponents were just better or maybe "having your head on right" is a prerequisite for success in any endeavor...

He may not have been responsible but after hearing the "good news" he was certainly eager for the rematch he had no stomach for before! And it still made the difference in the fight so why brag about beating someone who's sweated off ten pounds in the last 3 days? If I were you I wouldn't brag about it anymore than Ali would brag about taking out Cleveland Williams who is handicapped with a bullet thru him. Capiche?

Camcho had about twenty five fights prior to Leonard and after losing to Chavez...He won twenty three of them...He evidently had a lot more left than Leonard...In his next fight he went the distance with a much younger, larger, hungrier, and stronger Oscar DeLaHoya who was no slouch...In fact he was 25-0 at the time!!!

anyone with the proper management, could build up a record of 25-0. The Chavez and Dela Hoya fights clearly put it all in proper perspective. Hector Camacho was a lifeless shell and a punching bag.

I like to keep this thread going...My girl, granberry, and the esteemed seventies rocker and keyboard player , Elton John , thinks it's a coup that some boxer beat up a forty year old man...If I may digress for a moment I never took Sir Elton for a boxing fan but All The Young Girls Love Alice is a killer song if slightly bent and many a night were spent as a sixteen year kid smoking dope , drinking Mad Dog, and listening to Saturday Night's All Right For Fighting...I don't much fancy his new stuff... IMHO, he hasn't done anything creative since Goodbye YellowBrick Road which came out during the Nixon administration... Excuse me for meandering...We're here to talk about fisticuffs, the sweet science, boxing, grown men beating other grown men into a pulp...That takes me back 360 degreess or 180 degrees...Elton strikes me as too genteel for such a sport... I could much more see him gently caressing Granberry's neck watching an old Judy Garland film than watching Antonio Margaroto beating Miguel Cotto silly ....Bad me...I must stop talking like that...

I was a fifteen year old kid, high on a Thai stick once, and beat a 6'8'' guy in a game of one on one basketball... It seems I could do anything I wanted on my friend's basketball court...It was if I was Walt Frazier, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and Julius Erving wrapped into one that day.... I was living out my pubescent, slightly bored of it all, suburban dreams ...I don't brag about it much...Oh, did I mention he had Down's Syndrome...I digress... There's a metaphor in there, for those who made it to ninth grade English, capiche...

So Leonard was behind on points when he knocked out Tommy Hearns...I remember a gentleman by the name of Joe Louis Barrow being in the same position against a smaller and lesser fighter, Billy Conn, and winning in the same fashion...Nobody penalizes the Brown Bomber for that...Did I mention Joe was the much larger fighter...In this instance, Ray beat up the bigger man...

Again, if Duran didn't want the fight or wasn't prepared to take the fight he shouldn't have...He had a moral, fiduciary, and ethical obligation to perform to the best of his abilities...Is it Leonard's fault that he asked for the fight to be stopped, ostensibly to move his bowels?

Now, we are full circle and discussing the estimable or is it inestimable Mr. Camacho...He's had twenty or so fights since disposing of Mr. Leonard and acquitted himself admirably...As I already noted he's still fighting and wants another shot with The Golden Boy or perhaps the young or relatively young Floyd Mayweather.

There is an ancient Chines proverb that says "sitting across the table from a wise man is worth reading a thousand books." You and granberry have received the same benefit, via a computer modem. No thank yous are necessary...

Hunter Thompson has nothing on TheOne

TheOneIsHere2008

[Elton John]

So Leonard was behind on points when he knocked out Tommy Hearns...I remember a gentleman by the name of Joe Louis Barrow being in the same position against a smaller and lesser fighter, Billy Conn, and winning in the same fashion...Nobody penalizes the Brown Bomber for that...Did I mention Joe was the much larger fighter...In this instance, Ray beat up the bigger man

What a ridiculous post! I had to cut out most of the moronic statements just to have something to respond to.

I'd hardly compare a piker like Ray Leonard to the immortal Joe Louis. Besides, everyone knows their styles were different. No one ever praised Louis for his footwork and all around smoothness as a boxer. Even at that he'd never been scolded in his own corner for incompetence "you're blowing it son you're blowing it!" and that's what makes his shoddy performance stand out all the more. How do great boxers fall behind as Ray Did unless they themselves have problems coping with other boxers. Well Collins, what say you?????

As I stated before, speed and foot movement was a killer for Ray to overcome. The great Terry Norris showed, no, he PROVED once and for all that Ray Leonard was dead in the water if the opponent didnt stand directly in front of him. As Larry Holmes (ex heavyweight champion in case you didn't know) had said "Terry Norris just had the style to beat Ray".

If you quickly move out of range what you will often times is Ray Leonard (Ali protoge) taking wild swings at the air. Otherwise you would see much of what he did with Benitez (staring) OR, taking a shellacking in ring center and on the ropes.

One fact stands out: Ray Leonard cannot cope with a boxer of Norris' caliber.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

So Leonard was behind on points when he knocked out Tommy Hearns...I remember a gentleman by the name of Joe Louis Barrow being in the same position against a smaller and lesser fighter, Billy Conn, and winning in the same fashion...Nobody penalizes the Brown Bomber for that...Did I mention Joe was the much larger fighter...In this instance, Ray beat up the bigger man

What a ridiculous post! I had to cut out most of the moronic statements just to have something to respond to.

I'd hardly compare a piker like Ray Leonard to the immortal Joe Louis. Besides, everyone knows their styles were different. No one ever praised Louis for his footwork and all around smoothness as a boxer. Even at that he'd never been scolded in his own corner for incompetence "you're blowing it son you're blowing it!" and that's what makes his shoddy performance stand out all the more. How do great boxers fall behind as Ray Did unless they themselves have problems coping with other boxers. Well Collins, what say you?????

As I stated before, speed and foot movement was a killer for Ray to overcome. The great Terry Norris showed, no, he PROVED once and for all that Ray Leonard was dead in the water if the opponent didnt stand directly in front of him. As Larry Holmes (ex heavyweight champion in case you didn't know) had said "Terry Norris just had the style to beat Ray".

If you quickly move out of range what you will often times is Ray Leonard (Ali protoge) taking wild swings at the air. Otherwise you would see much of what he did with Benitez (staring) OR, taking a shellacking in ring center and on the ropes.

One fact stands out: Ray Leonard cannot cope with a boxer of Norris' caliber.

I am sorry you find my prose "moronic" or "ridiculous"...I guess California public lower education being what it is there was no time or resources to teach high school students irony and the use of metaphors, the very metaphors and irony that you missed in your ignorance and consequently dismissed as "moronic" and "ridiculous"...Or perhaps you just never made it that far...Don't feel bad...Education isn't all it's cracked up to be...The gentleman who does my landscaping never made it past the eighth grade and he seems to be doing quite well for himself as did the gentleman who repaired my toilet...There I go again; meandering...

For boxers as feckless as Sugar Ray Leonard and Muhammad Ali they sure earned themselves a high place in boxing history... Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Tommy Hearns, Marvin Hagler, Robert Duran, and Wilfred Benitez would be surprised to learn they were owned by men who were feckless...All they had to do to secure victory as you suggest is "quickly move out of range " and Ali and Leonard "would be swinging at air"


If you are suggesting that Ali and Leonard didn't like to lead that's like saying water is, errrrrrrrrr,wet...

One could say a person who thinks the great Ali and Leonard could be so easily, easily defeated knows as much about boxing as Elton John knows about heterosexual sex but that wouldn't be true...Because you must know, as an acolyte of his , that he was heterosexual at one time or at least held himself out as one...


But, alas, we are making progress... You are no longer trying to tarnish Sugar Ray's victory over Roberto Duran, he of the gastroenterological distress...And you moved away from your position that a past it Macho Camacho beating a much more past it Sugar Ray Leonard was some high water mark in puglistic history... The Socratic Method works even if the person employing it is Albert Einstein and the person responding is Jeff Spicoli...


I must go now....The gym awaits me....I must go there with regularity to maintain the hard body that makes women and men like granberry and Elton John swoon...

When I get back I will be sure to check the aberrant nonsense you and ms. granberry write in my absence...

TheOneIsHere2008

[BoxBuzz]

Doesn't this fight truly get filed under "MF" for Meaningless Fight?

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Doesn't this fight truly get filed under "MF" for Meaningless Fight?

I feel like Michael Corleone in Godfather lll..."Every time I try to get out , they pull me back in."

Granberry and Sir Elton John have been arguing that this match was a high water mark in pugilistic history that rendered everything that Ray Charles Leonard accomplished to that point, irrelevant...

[BoxBuzz]

It was the very definition of meaninglessness. Well except I imagine that the checks did not bounce.

[granberry]

[. Last I checked , granmama, Marvin Hagler was a southpaw, and a top ten middleweight ATG and Leonard beat him...

For those who swallow everything Sports Illustrated--Bert Sugar--Thomas Hauser feed them,

Leonard "beat" Hagler.

LOL

But not for anyone who knows what boxing is.

Running for your life and clinching is not a way to beat anyone, unless your name is Ray Leonard (or Ali).

Camacho made an ASS out of poor Leonard.

And knocked him cold.

That hurts, doesn't it, TheOne[collins].

It doesn't hurt as much as the cylindrical objects that your young friends (sic) with the broad , shaven backs insert into orifices of yours that decent folks dare not mention.

The fact that you get your rocks off seeing old men get beat up tells me exactly the type of woman you are...

Respectfully,

Your Daddy


:P

TheOne (collins) demonstrates his fixation on homosexuality for the billionth time.

Apparently the boxrec 'moderators' approve.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

For those who swallow everything Sports Illustrated--Bert Sugar--Thomas Hauser feed them...

That hurts, doesn't it, TheOne[collins].

-granberry

TheOne (collins) demonstrates his fixation on homosexuality for the billionth time.

Apparently the boxrec 'moderators' approve.

-granberry

You called me out by name and accused me of having multiple handles...It's a disservice to me and a disservice to Collins 2000 though I see you have made an ally in that endeavor...As the old British idiom goes "birds of a feather flock together" And stop crying for the mods...It makes you look pathetic,you old sissie.



:P

[granberry]

Doesn't this fight truly get filed under "MF" for Meaningless Fight?

ANY fight where Leonard or Ali got an ass whipping

is 'meaningless' to the swallowers of the pathetic

news media sell of Ali and his replacement, Leonard.

[Elton John]

I am sorry you find my prose "moronic" or "ridiculous"...I guess California public lower education being what it is there was no time or resources to teach high school students irony and the use of metaphors, the very metaphors and irony that you missed in your ignorance and consequently dismissed as "moronic" and "ridiculous"...Or perhaps you just never made it that far...Don't feel bad...Education isn't all it's cracked up to be...The gentleman who does my landscaping never made it past the eighth grade and he seems to be doing quite well for himself as did the gentleman who repaired my toilet...There I go again; meandering...

You sound like a dumb English major. So how many times did you have to change majors before you got a decent paying job?

[granberry]

I am sorry you find my prose "moronic" or "ridiculous"...I guess California public lower education being what it is there was no time or resources to teach high school students irony and the use of metaphors, the very metaphors and irony that you missed in your ignorance and consequently dismissed as "moronic" and "ridiculous"...Or perhaps you just never made it that far...Don't feel bad...Education isn't all it's cracked up to be...The gentleman who does my landscaping never made it past the eighth grade and he seems to be doing quite well for himself as did the gentleman who repaired my toilet...There I go again; meandering...

You sound like a dumb English major. So how many times did you have to change majors before you got a decent paying job?

TheOne is a swallower and reguritator of everything Thomas Hauser and Sports Illustrated churned out.

TheOne swallows their crap

and then proudly regurgitates it onto boxrec.

[Elton John]

If you are suggesting that Ali and Leonard didn't like to lead that's like saying water is, errrrrrrrrr,wet...

TheOneIsHere2008

Any examples to the contrary? A typical example demonstrating prowess in their ability to lead:

Ali v. Jimmy Young

Ray Leonard v. Terry Norris He fared a little better against Larry Bonds in which I became slightly impressed until I remembered it was Larry Bonds.

[granberry]

You called me out by name and accused me of having multiple handles...It's a disservice to me and a disservice to Collins 2000 though I see you have made an ally in that endeavor...As the old British idiom goes "birds of a feather flock together" And stop crying for the mods...It makes you look pathetic,you old sissie.



:P

TheOne/collins cries for the 'mods' continually.

TheOne/collins calls granberry grandmama and continaully posts homosexually fixated posts to granberry.

TheOne/collins thinks boxrec is his latrine.

EXAMPLE of TheOne's posting on boxrec:

For those who swallow everything Sports Illustrated--Bert Sugar--Thomas Hauser feed them,

Leonard "beat" Hagler.

LOL

But not for anyone who knows what boxing is.

Running for your life and clinching is not a way to beat anyone, unless your name is Ray Leonard (or Ali).

Camacho made an ASS out of poor Leonard.

And knocked him cold.

That hurts, doesn't it, TheOne[collins].

It doesn't hurt as much as the cylindrical objects that your young friends (sic) with the broad , shaven backs insert into orifices of yours that decent folks dare not mention.

The fact that you get your rocks off seeing old men get beat up tells me exactly the type of woman you are...

Respectfully,

Your Daddy


:P

[BoxBuzz]

hey granny......don't you think Ray was a bit over the hill during this fight? Wouldn't that sort of render it's meaning a bit dubious? Along the lines of Louis' late return?

Was Frazier's fight with Jumbo Cummings somehow a commentary or anything about his career other than perhaps he was aging? I don't need to go into Jimmy Young's various event's past his time since you are on the record as having explained that to us.

Is it somehow different for Ray than it is for fighters you tend to like? A different set of rules perhaps as to how to assess these moments?

Please elaborate.