Camacho vs. Leonard

[bollox]

I hate all these old timers fighting. With each of these fights boxing's history is becoming more and more distorted

A perfect example.......Jeff Fenech recently beating Azumah Nelson in a 10 rounder

[BoxBuzz]

Wasn't the decision a bit dubious? Anyway I agree that it can't be taken into context in regards to either fighters best work, but can tell us a little about the fact that both of those guys apparently attempted to continue to stay in good shape as the years went by.

[bollox]

Wasn't the decision a bit dubious? Anyway I agree that it can't be taken into context in regards to either fighters best work, but can tell us a little about the fact that both of those guys apparently attempted to continue to stay in good shape as the years went by.

The decision wasn't dubious as far as I know. Was there talk of it, was there?

Both Fenech and Nelson had gone a bit portly in their retirements but that was no surprise. Nelson is 50 and Fenech 44. They should both have been given an endorsement contract with Jenny Craig 8)

[granberry]

hey granny......don't you think Ray was a bit over the hill during this fight? Wouldn't that sort of render it's meaning a bit dubious? Along the lines of Louis' late return?

Was Frazier's fight with Jumbo Cummings somehow a commentary or anything about his career other than perhaps he was aging? I don't need to go into Jimmy Young's various event's past his time since you are on the record as having explained that to us.

Is it somehow different for Ray than it is for fighters you tend to like? A different set of rules perhaps as to how to assess these moments?

Please elaborate.

Thomas Hauser clone buzz now professes concern about the "condition" of fighters.

HOW SELECTIVE is Thomas Hauser clone buzz in his concern about "condition" ?

Thomas Hauser clone buzz will now tell us about the "condition "Cleveland Williams was in when he 'fought' Ali.

TELL US ALL about the "condition" Cleveland Williams' midsection was in at that time, buzz.

Then tell us TELL US ALL about the "condition" Floyd Patterson's back was in when he 'fought' Ali, buzz.

TELL US all about it, buzz.

LOL

[TheOneIsHere2008]

If you are suggesting that Ali and Leonard didn't like to lead that's like saying water is, errrrrrrrrr,wet...

TheOneIsHere2008

Any examples to the contrary? A typical example demonstrating prowess in their ability to lead:

Ali v. Jimmy Young

Ray Leonard v. Terry Norris He fared a little better against Larry Bonds in which I became slightly impressed until I remembered it was Larry Bonds.

Do you mean the fight where Jimmy Young stuck his head outside of the ring six times the ring to avoid punishment?

Do you know that sticking your head outside the ring to avoid punishment is tantamount to a stand up knock down under Maryland ring rules ? , ergo:


For the most part, Young was a passive figure against Ali . On six occasions he ducked outside of the ropes and stayed there like a man looking out a window. It was not accidental. He was not slipping a punch. It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world. According to Maryland ring rules, Young should have been censured for this action; it is called a "stand-up knockdown." He was given a two count once. The rest of the time he was allowed to take the rarefied air of the $200 ringside. Ali eventually became so frustrated that he began leaning over the ropes to bang him on top of his head. Heroes do not do this sort of thing, and Young—though clearly wrong—won sympathy.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm


If you cry uncle, Sir Elton, I might stop...

:P

BTW-I will never give up my assault on your, errrrrrrr, friend granberry...He's my personal ,rhymes with witch... Let's not go there...Let's just say he's my personal pinata...Except when you kick him, crap comes out instead of candy...

[TheOneIsHere2008]

hey granny......don't you think Ray was a bit over the hill during this fight? Wouldn't that sort of render it's meaning a bit dubious? Along the lines of Louis' late return?

Was Frazier's fight with Jumbo Cummings somehow a commentary or anything about his career other than perhaps he was aging? I don't need to go into Jimmy Young's various event's past his time since you are on the record as having explained that to us.

Is it somehow different for Ray than it is for fighters you tend to like? A different set of rules perhaps as to how to assess these moments?

Please elaborate.

Thomas Hauser clone buzz now professes concern about the "condition" of fighters.

HOW SELECTIVE is Thomas Hauser clone buzz in his concern about "condition" ?

Thomas Hauser clone buzz will now tell us about the "condition "Cleveland Williams was in when he 'fought' Ali.

TELL US ALL about the "condition" Cleveland Williams' midsection was in at that time, buzz.

Then tell us TELL US ALL about the "condition" Floyd Patterson's back was in when he 'fought' Ali, buzz.

TELL US all about it, buzz.

LOL

Enough folks say The Cat wasn't right so I won't focus on that fight...He did win the nine fights before it and the five fights after it though...

As for The Rabbit his back was fine or at least it was fine until he "threw it out" missing Ali...

Rather than rely on a bunch of old maids for their opinion of the GOAT, I'll rely on one of the baddest heavyweights of all time:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRImkiWe ... re=related

George Foreman is pure class...

[Elton John]

Do you mean the fight where Jimmy Young stuck his head outside of the ring six times the ring to avoid punishment?



For the most part, Young was a passive figure against Ali. On six occasions he ducked outside of the ropes and stayed there like a man looking out a window. It was not accidental. He was not slipping a punch. It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world. According to Maryland ring rules, Young should have been censured for this action; it is called a "stand-up knockdown." He was given a two count once. The rest of the time he was allowed to take the rarefied air of the $200 ringside. Ali eventually became so frustrated that he began leaning over the ropes to bang him on top of his head. Heroes do not do this sort of thing, and Young—though clearly wrong—won sympathy.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm


If you cry uncle, Sir Elton, I might stop...

I know it wasn't accidental. Jimmy was just toying with him the way Walcott did his occasional shuffle with Joe Louis except that Jimmy was in no danger. Other than that, it was the closest Muhammud would ever get to Jimmy.

I can't speak for Granberry but I gave Muhammud three rounds because I was kind. It was evident that leading was not his strength and looked as lost as Sugar Ray Leonard in a Terry Norris fight.

As for taking a passive stance in a boxing match, it does happen. A classic case of this would be Willie Pep who was very successful using this approach, with long win streaks of 60,70 contests while rarely being touched.

Did you know that Willie is reputed to have once won a round without throwing one punch? It CAN be done and in much the same way Jimmy was winning the rounds in same fashion except he was outscoring Muhammud, by a conservative estimation, 3-1.

I couldn't see the faces of Cosell & Norton but from the way he sounded everyone seemed to be having a panic attack during rounds 10-15. Of course this means they were agreeing with me. :P

Besides, I don't see why leaning thru the ropes would offend anyone unless they were looking for some way for their man to make up a considerable deficit on the scorecards they couldn't otherwise do on their own.

A legitimate excuse for deducting points is for things like continual striking after the bell, (see rounds 6,7 Leonard-Hagler) or blatant shots to the groin (rounds 4 Hagler-leonard)


This is Elton John, who always gives better than he gets, signing off.

[Elton John]

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm

Thanks Collins this really made me see the light! What was I thinking?

[Elton John]

^ This report is much more reliable than watching the tape for yourself

[granberry]

TheOne---self-centered blowhard and devout Thomas Hauser clone who prostrates himself at the Religion of Ali holy shrine with every post he churns out.

The only problem is the religion is built on quicksand.

Jimmy Young boxed Ali's ears off and exposed the Emperor's New Clothes for all to see.

[granberry]

Do you mean the fight where Jimmy Young stuck his head outside of the ring six times the ring to avoid punishment?



For the most part, Young was a passive figure against Ali. On six occasions he ducked outside of the ropes and stayed there like a man looking out a window. It was not accidental. He was not slipping a punch. It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world. According to Maryland ring rules, Young should have been censured for this action; it is called a "stand-up knockdown." He was given a two count once. The rest of the time he was allowed to take the rarefied air of the $200 ringside. Ali eventually became so frustrated that he began leaning over the ropes to bang him on top of his head. Heroes do not do this sort of thing, and Young—though clearly wrong—won sympathy.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm


If you cry uncle, Sir Elton, I might stop...

I know it wasn't accidental. Jimmy was just toying with him the way Walcott did his occasional shuffle with Joe Louis except that Jimmy was in no danger. Other than that, it was the closest Muhammud would ever get to Jimmy.

I can't speak for Granberry but I gave Muhammud three rounds because I was kind. It was evident that leading was not his strength and looked as lost as Sugar Ray Leonard in a Terry Norris fight.

As for taking a passive stance in a boxing match, it does happen. A classic case of this would be Willie Pep who was very successful using this approach, with long win streaks of 60,70 contests while rarely being touched.

Did you know that Willie is reputed to have once won a round without throwing one punch? It CAN be done and in much the same way Jimmy was winning the rounds in same fashion except he was outscoring Muhammud, by a conservative estimation, 3-1.

I couldn't see the faces of Cosell & Norton but from the way he sounded everyone seemed to be having a panic attack during rounds 10-15. Of course this means they were agreeing with me. :P

Besides, I don't see why leaning thru the ropes would offend anyone unless they were looking for some way for their man to make up a considerable deficit on the scorecards they couldn't otherwise do on their own.

A legitimate excuse for deducting points is for things like continual striking after the bell, (see rounds 6,7 Leonard-Hagler) or blatant shots to the groin (rounds 4 Hagler-leonard)


This is Elton John, who always gives better than he gets, signing off.

Shorter version:

Jimmy Young gave Ali an ass-whipping.

[Jaclem]

.....i saw several of ray leonard's fights (i do not use the name sugar ray, as that belonged to just one man) and enjoyed some of them, but my favorites were with camacho and with terry norris.

[Elton John]

.....i saw several of ray leonard's fights (i do not use the name sugar ray, as that belonged to just one man) and enjoyed some of them, but my favorites were with camacho and with terry norris.

Someone with a paltry record of 35-5 cannot begin to match the career accomplishments of a Sugar Ray. Can we even call it a career by today's standards?

[Elton John]

1984-1989: Sugar Ray's remedial boxing program. Feb. 9, 1991: Watch as this successful graduate attempts to progress to the next level

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Besides, I don't see why leaning thru the ropes would offend anyone unless they were looking for some way for their man to make up a considerable deficit on the scorecards they couldn't otherwise do on their own.

-Sir Elton John

"Sticking your head through the ropes to avoid an opponent's punches is in my view an act of surrender and no different to me than a fighter wilfully taking a knee and a mandatory 8 count, which would have been the approximate amount of breathing room Young was afforded each time the referee had to intervene between the fighters so Young could free himself from the ropes. It was an illegal tactic that was used for the sole purpose of avoiding engaging. Unfortunately it was a tactic not seen before in a heavyweight title fight and the referee didn't know how to deal with it. While the referee didn't penalize Young for his passive tactics, obviously the judges did."

-anonymous

ThisIsTheOne2008 who didn't name himself after a faded seventies rockers with a middle age paunch and bad hair transplant whose contemporary work is virtually indistinguishable from the schmaltz put out by Barry Manilow...

[BoxBuzz]

For what it's worth, when others are reduced to name calling, it's granberry who ends up looking like the class act.

He does seem to be a "goat herder". Maybe that's his wish.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

For what it's worth, when others are reduced to name calling, it's granberry who ends up looking like the class act.

He does seem to be a "goat herder". Maybe that's his wish.

Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.

-Malcolm X

And my friend, boxbuzz, I don't see how calling strangers "self centered blow hards" who "prostrate themselves" to other men from the anonymity and safety a computer modem provides makes one a class act...

[BoxBuzz]

I'll trust you actually get my meaning in this matter without further rephrasing. Nowhere in my words will you find me acusing him of actually being a class act.

[Elton John]

Do you mean the fight where Jimmy Young stuck his head outside of the ring six times the ring to avoid punishment?



For the most part, Young was a passive figure against Ali. On six occasions he ducked outside of the ropes and stayed there like a man looking out a window. It was not accidental. He was not slipping a punch. It was unconscionable behavior for a man who wants the heavyweight championship of the world. According to Maryland ring rules, Young should have been censured for this action; it is called a "stand-up knockdown." He was given a two count once. The rest of the time he was allowed to take the rarefied air of the $200 ringside. Ali eventually became so frustrated that he began leaning over the ropes to bang him on top of his head. Heroes do not do this sort of thing, and Young—though clearly wrong—won sympathy.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm


If you cry uncle, Sir Elton, I might stop...

I know it wasn't accidental. Jimmy was just toying with him the way Walcott did his occasional shuffle with Joe Louis except that Jimmy was in no danger. Other than that, it was the closest Muhammud would ever get to Jimmy.

I can't speak for Granberry but I gave Muhammud three rounds because I was kind. It was evident that leading was not his strength and looked as lost as Sugar Ray Leonard in a Terry Norris fight.

As for taking a passive stance in a boxing match, it does happen. A classic case of this would be Willie Pep who was very successful using this approach, with long win streaks of 60,70 contests while rarely being touched.

Did you know that Willie is reputed to have once won a round without throwing one punch? It CAN be done and in much the same way Jimmy was winning the rounds in same fashion except he was outscoring Muhammud, by a conservative estimation, 3-1.

I couldn't see the faces of Cosell & Norton but from the way he sounded everyone seemed to be having a panic attack during rounds 10-15. Of course this means they were agreeing with me. :P

Besides, I don't see why leaning thru the ropes would offend anyone unless they were looking for some way for their man to make up a considerable deficit on the scorecards they couldn't otherwise do on their own.

A legitimate excuse for deducting points is for things like continual striking after the bell, (see rounds 6,7 Leonard-Hagler) or blatant shots to the groin (rounds 4 Hagler-leonard)


This is Elton John, who always gives better than he gets, signing off.

Shorter version:

Jimmy Young gave Ali an ass-whipping.

It seems as if the standards has changed somewhat and may depend on what you're looking for: How many right hands that landed flush on Ali's jaw or how many times Jimmy Young stuck his head thru the ropes. last time I checked it, scoring blows won you the fight.

However, Collins2008 believes otherwise. Notice how many times he displays quotes, even those of an anonymous source, to back his beliefs?

At any rate, Jimmy controlled the fight, he outscored and outslicked the master at his own game--boxing. But....he did not kick his ass!

Kenny Norton gave Ali the ass whipping.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

However, Collins2008 believes otherwise. Notice how many times he displays quotes, even those of an anonymous source, to back his beliefs?

At any rate, Jimmy controlled the fight, he outscored and outslicked the master at his own game--boxing. But....he did not kick his ass!

Kenny Norton gave Ali the ass whipping


-Dame Elton John

From now on you are Dame Elton John, ergo:

When a man is awarded a knighthood he becomes a "knight" and a woman becomes a "dame."

How about you don't address me by the name of another poster, disrepecting me and him in the process, and I won't mention the fact that you named yourself after a queen?

Deal...

I'll bet that must have stung...

Maryland boxing rules state that sticking one's head outside the ring to avoid punishment is tantamount to a stand up knock down ...Jimmy Young stuck his head outside the ring six times...That means he was knocked down six times... I have never seen a title change hands when the challenger was knocked down six times...

I could have easily passed off that quote as mine...The reason I used quotes is because I didn't want to appropriate the work of others , even if there was a 99.99% certainty that I wouldn't get caught...I doubt you have that intellectual honesty....Anyway '"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants"...There I go quoting again...It's Sir Issac Newton...


As for the ass whipping Ken Norton allegedly gave Ali the record shows they fought three times and Ali won twice, notwithstanding what you and your girlfriend, granberry think might have happened...

Here's another quote...You probably remember it since it was directed toward you:

"You are so full of your own falsehoods and delusions. If you were half the man Muhammad Ali was in the ring you might like yourself."

:(

[Elton John]

I'll bet that must have stung...

Maryland boxing rules state that sticking one's head outside the ring to avoid punishment is tantamount to a stand up knock down ...Jimmy Young stuck his head outside the ring six times...That means he was knocked down six times... I have never seen a title change hands when the challenger was knocked down six times...


As for the ass whipping Ken Norton allegedly gave Ali the record shows they fought three times and Ali won twice, notwithstanding what you and your girlfriend, granberry think might have happened...


:(

I am Sir Elton John, the most powerful man on the internet. Bad vibes and insults pass thru me as easily as air passes thru a screen.

What stung was Muhammud's head as both Jimmy and Ken Norton bounced right hands off his head that transformed him into what you see today.

This is Elton John who gives better than he gets, signing off.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

I'll bet that must have stung...

Maryland boxing rules state that sticking one's head outside the ring to avoid punishment is tantamount to a stand up knock down ...Jimmy Young stuck his head outside the ring six times...That means he was knocked down six times... I have never seen a title change hands when the challenger was knocked down six times...


As for the ass whipping Ken Norton allegedly gave Ali the record shows they fought three times and Ali won twice, notwithstanding what you and your girlfriend, granberry think might have happened...


:(

I am Dame Elton John, the most powerful wo-man on the internet. Bad vibes and insults pass thru me as easily as the semen of a dozen sailors on leave pass through my desiccated orifices on a hot first date.

What stung was Muhammud's head as both Jimmy and Ken Norton bounced right hands off his head that transformed him into what you see today. This is Dame Elton John who gives head better than (s)he gets, signing off.

That's for making fun of Ali's Parkinson's Disease or anybody with a debilitating disease, you lisping, twisted little freak ... If you include sparring , Muhammad Ali has had 15,000 rounds or so of boxing..That's a lot of pounding....Boxing is a brutal sport...I'll bet my dick a lisping, coddled, little boy like yourself never had a real fight in his life...

Billie Graham , Michael J. Fox and the late Johnny Cash and Pope John Paul have or had Parkinon's Disease and they were never even hit...The way Muhammad Ali handles it with grace and dignity and doesn't hide from the public is beyond praise worthy...I'll bet you don't even venture out of your mom's garage when you are having your period.

Now, that must have stung...



This is TheOneIsHere2008 saying goodbye until later and Dame Elton John is my new internet slave...(S)he responds to my every beck and call...

I will admit if Dame Elton John even attempts to answer this powerful missive (s)he's more (wo)man than I gave her/him credit for...

:(

P.S. As an aside it's Muhammad , after the Prophet Muhammad...Do you spell it incorrectly to be clever or because you are just plain illiterate?

[ebeneezer]

Shorter version:

Jimmy Young gave Ali an ass-whipping.[/quote]


Gerry Cooney gave Jimmy Young an even bigger ass-whipping

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Ebeneezer, your post deserves a link...

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?v ... oung&emb=0

[granberry]

Granberry-the old queen who loiters in public restrooms and makes a nuisance of himself because he is even too ugly to find a date there.

buzz, the phony boxrec 'moderator',

does nothing about crap like this.

Tell us all about how you 'moderate' boxrec, buzz.