GRANBERRY: You are right again!!!

[Jaclem]

boxbuzz...i agree with you heartedly that there is room for differing opinions that can be expressed in a civil manner, and of course i applaud your being right on aaron pryor.

.....but.....you stupid mother ******, you are so full of **** when you, dumbass, continue saying that archie moore may have won his second fight with charles,or that he would have won had they fought again. you have **** for brains and except for your stand on aaron pryor you don't know ********* thing about boxing.

everyone on the inside knows that duane bobick kayoed moore on all of the fifteen sparring matches they had, and this was even before bobick's amateur career!

[funso banjo baby]

....' heavyweight wilfred benitez '

[BoxBuzz]

boxbuzz...i agree with you heartedly that there is room for differing opinions that can be expressed in a civil manner, and of course i applaud your being right on aaron pryor.

.....but.....you stupid mother ******, you are so full of **** when you, dumbass, continue saying that archie moore may have won his second fight with charles,or that he would have won had they fought again. you have **** for brains and except for your stand on aaron pryor you don't know ********* thing about boxing.

everyone on the inside knows that duane bobick kayoed moore on all of the fifteen sparring matches they had, and this was even before bobick's amateur career!

Jaclem

What I most like about folks like granberry is that he is the "granite stone or what I like to call the "lead (as in "heavy metals or lead vs gold) standard " of BoxRec....his assertions are always predictable and in lockstep with one or two very forecastable core values, and though quickly revealed to be toxic, overly burdensome and without merit, can on occasion by simple repetition, lead some lemmings to believe them to be facts....or at least factoids.

Now as to our liquid, mercurial slick and "chameleon like" friend jaclem, we have an entirely different set of parameters to deal with and overcome when he goes about attempting, like granberry, to pollute our thinking with his highly refined and subtly nuanced approach to poisoning the populaces' popular yet precarious and fragile opinion pool.

He will publicly side with established credible and wildly popular opiner's (such as myself) on topics such as Aarorn Pryor thus gaining fundamental credibility as a "deep thinker" of pugilistic power, production and prowess. Once secure in his position via utilizing this remarkable and confidence building approach, he will then lash out at his mentors with his originally intended and damaging works of art.

E.G. the attempt to build up his favored fighter at the expense of a fighter that deserves even greater respect, admiration and attention to career detail. In this case Jaclem's sometimes accepted and thus insidious claim, that somehow Ezzard Charles may have been the superior fighter based on his direct wins over Archie Moore. Jaclem then attempts to further dilute the truth of this matter by reducing the discussion to these outcomes and by referring to said pugilist as merely an "opponent" or "nemisis" rather than by name.

Yet enlightenment has arrived for those of us, such as myself, and others who have meticulously studied the record, consulted, conversed and conferred with those who can add clarity, preened over the data while keeping in mind the greater meaning of the various anomalies contained in their individual records (which are both startling and truth rendering). As well as those of us who have poured over the journalists contributions establishing a "wise council based " industry wide fundamental consensus.....who now can claim to KNOW the truth of the matter.

Rather than simply state the findings here we will invite interested parties to review said evidenced aspects and be their own judge.

Those who choose the more careful and thoughtful path of discovery will never again be drawn to the "superficial" and perhaps pseudo "intuitive" answer to such an argument. They are also likely to find themselves gaining greater appreciation of the sweet and complex science of pugilism, it's intricacies, and how one can be well served by not being magnetized to answers that may be considered to be both popular and "standard".

Occam's Razor will often lead you to the truth, but sometimes if not properly maintained and sharpened it can also lead one to a required emergency room visit.

[granberry]

Poor buzz has been "led to the truth" by Thomas Hauser and Norman Mailer.

And we must not forget Joyce Carol Oates.

LOL

Buzz knows what "the truth" is.

And he knows that it is "defamation" to post a photo of Frazier knocking poor Ali flat on his back.

[BoxBuzz]

As you know granberry, the defining aspects of that picture that you love so much is in what took place in it's wake. He did not stay down, and he was not dominated by this man in the coming twenty something rounds that they would engage in. This moment can honestly be taken in context as a badge of honor for the man who WOULD NOT let this photo define him. Except of course by you and few oddball eccentrics who think that this somehow tells us all we need to know about Cassius Clay/ Muhammad Ali.

If aliens came to earth and asked granberry to tell them all he knew about planet Earth's great sport of boxing and it's various participants.....granberry would offer them this picture and tell them...."here is a picture of a man who got hit and fell down". Failing to make them privy to any other various and obviously irrelevant facts about the sport or it's participants.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

As you know granberry, the defining aspects of that picture that you love so much is in what took place in it's wake. He did not stay down, and he was not dominated by this man in the coming twenty something rounds that they would engage in. This moment can honestly be taken in context as a badge of honor for the man who WOULD NOT let this photo define him. Except of course by you and few oddball eccentrics who think that this somehow tells us all we need to know about Cassius Clay/ Muhammad Ali.

If aliens came to earth and asked granberry to tell them all he knew about planet Earth's great sport of boxing and it's various participants.....granberry would offer them this picture and tell them...."here is a picture of a man who got hit and fell down". Failing to make them privy to any other various and obviously irrelevant facts about the sport or it's participants.

Buzz can do nothing but repeat Thomas Hauser talking points.

What a tiresome existence.

And buzz doesn't even get paid.

Thomas Hauser, for all his incompetence and selling of propaganda on the the pathetic topic he latched onto,

does get paid.

You shouldn't insult buzz...He's the thin blue line between you and all the boys who pick on you on this board...

If you were half the man buzz is you would be four times the man you are now...And as far as Thomas Hauser, if you were one quarter as succesful as him you would be more than sixteen times as successful as you are now...

[BoxBuzz]

Granberry you use your good power of knowledge for the sole purpose of obfuscation all too often. It turns out you may simply be a bad egg.

However I know you will not abandon the theory that you are postulating on this forum..... the idea that perhaps constant and consistent repetition of fiction and/or personal opinion will eventually create hard facts.....so please by all means continue with these important experiments of yours.

And continued good luck with all of that.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Reasonable people can disagree on who should have got the decision in a close fight.

Reasonable people don't give Norton the 2nd fight 119-111. (Norton himself doesn't have a problem with this verdict.)

Reasonable people don't score the 2nd fight for Norton before actually seeing it. (Or saying that De La Hoya didn't deserve the decision against Molina even though he hasn't seen it.)

Reasonable people don't say that they think their favorite fighter won by only 3 points against a fighter they don't like that it wasn't a close fight.

Reasonable people don't pretend they are a fan of someone that they dislike so that it looks like they are being impartial when they talk about him.

Reasonable people can actually talk about what a fighter did when he was in his prime instead of focusing almost entirely on fights when he wasn't.

Reasonable people don't constantly twist so many threads into an diatribe against one fighter.

Reasonable people are capable of giving credit to fighters they don't like personally, and criticize those that they can.

Reasonable people don't criticize a fighter that they don't like if they wouldn't criticze a fighter that do like for the same thing.

-Ambling Alp

This should be a sticky , a primer if you will, on how to discuss any competitor...

[TheOneIsHere2008]

As you know granberry, the defining aspects of that picture that you love so much is in what took place in it's wake. He did not stay down, and he was not dominated by this man in the coming twenty something rounds that they would engage in. This moment can honestly be taken in context as a badge of honor for the man who WOULD NOT let this photo define him. Except of course by you and few oddball eccentrics who think that this somehow tells us all we need to know about Cassius Clay/ Muhammad Ali.

If aliens came to earth and asked granberry to tell them all he knew about planet Earth's great sport of boxing and it's various participants.....granberry would offer them this picture and tell them...."here is a picture of a man who got hit and fell down". Failing to make them privy to any other various and obviously irrelevant facts about the sport or it's participants.

-box buzz

What's ironic is that the first Ali-Frazier fight plays such a prominent role in the autorized biopic, Ali, knockdown and all...It's acknowledged as a pivotal moment in his career...It's also ironic how positve Joe Frazier is portrayed...The second fight isn't even shown nor is The Thrilla In Manila...If that's all you knew of Ali you would think Ali and Frazier only fought once and Frazier won...

Hey, buzz, did you know Tom Hauser wrote a column on what a valuable resource for fight records box rec is?

[elmersalsa]

....' heavyweight wilfred benitez '

Maybe you have never seen the great Wilfred Benitez fight....

[TheOneIsHere2008]

....' heavyweight wilfred benitez '

Maybe you have never seen the great Wilfred Benitez fight....

Who said that?

He's very sick now...He has diabetes and a degenerative brain disease...

[BoxBuzz]

Hey "ONE, I know you meant "BoxRec" and not my moniker in your earlier quote.. I'm just a reader and absorber of info here, and though I thought I once knew something about this sport I have come to the realization that many folks here have forgotten more than I will ever know .....E.G. see West Coast thread. So I arrive and leave each day as nothing more (or less) than an enthusiastic and interested student/fan of the sport.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Hey "ONE, I know you meant "BoxRec" and not my moniker in your earlier quote.. I'm just a reader and absorber of info here, and though I thought I once knew something about this sport I have come to the realization that many folks here have forgotten more than I will ever know .....E.G. see West Coast thread. So I arrive and leave each day as nothing more (or less) than an enthusiastic and interested student/fan of the sport.

There are very knowledgable people on this board but knowledge in and of itself is amoral; it can be used for good and bad...

Yeah, Tom Hauser wrote a column on how valuable a resource boxrec is because it keeps track of fighters and presumably a fighter who has been "bombed" six times in the last four weeks will not get a license to box elsewhere...

I also e-mailed him about the ring size in Kinshasha...I wondered why Ali agreeed to a twenty foot instead of a twenty four foot ring...I guess he really wanted George...

I don't know the source of animus toward him...I have not seen him write poorly of any boxer except for Tyson after his break down at the Lewis weigh in... He certainly didn't disrespect other boxers in his book about Ali...

As an aside his non-Ali work has been nominated for a Pulitzer Prize...

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Thomas Hauser, for all his incompetence and selling of propaganda on the the pathetic topic he latched onto,

does get paid.

-granberry

You're supposed to be the a successful boxing insider...Prove it...

Let me see if I have you pegged... My dad was an amateur boxer...My uncle was a professional boxer...A couple of poster here have seen his box rec record...He wasn't Jake LaMotta good could but he was good enough to go 12-8 and fight at Yankee Stadium, Madison Square Garden and Ebbets Field and he even had a common opponnt with Jake...He went on to open up a bar on Lexington Avenue and Demspey and all those cats would come in...My dad went to WW ll, took shrapnel in the eye in the Italian Campaigns, contacted malaria, and spent six months at Walter Reed Hospital... They performed several operations but could not restore the sdight though they were able to save it cosmetically...When he got home, he married my mom and opened up a luncheonette in Far Rockaway...He sold that and then bought one in Jamaica, NY...I was about ten at the time... Guys who knew my dad and uncle from the gym would come in and talk about the "good old days" but they really had no marketable skills because unless you're a trainer or a manager, hanging around a gym is really of no utility...That's you...

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Now self centered Religion of Ali advocate TheOne[collins] is posting the history of his family on boxrec.

I wonder what outsiders who come across boxrec and read posts like that think.

LOL

My uncle was a real boxer... He's not a fraud and poseur like you...He actually beat people up and got blinded in the process...

And plenty of posters here like expug have shared their boxing record...

Why don't you tell us who you trained...


I'm learning a lot on this board...My uncle beat up Charles Boyette who lost to Two Ton Tony Galento... And Two Ton Tony knocked down Joe Louis...

And my uncle lost a point decision to Joe Baynes who lost a point decision to Jake LaMotta...

What did you ever do in the ring, sweet cakes?

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Now self centered Religion of Ali advocate TheOne[collins] is posting the history of his family on boxrec.

I wonder what outsiders who come across boxrec and read posts like that think.

LOL

My uncle was a real boxer... He's not a fraud and poseur like you...He actually beat people up and got blinded in the process...

And plenty of posters here like expug have shared their boxing record...

Why don't you tell us who you trained...


I'm learning a lot on this board...My uncle beat up Charles Boyette who lost to Two Ton Tony Galento... And Two Ton Tony knocked down Joe Louis...

And my uncle lost a point decision to Joe Baynes who lost a point decision to Jake LaMotta...

What did you ever do in the ring, sweet cakes?

CRICKETS

[p4p1]

Poor buzz has been "led to the truth" by Thomas Hauser and Norman Mailer.

And we must not forget Joyce Carol Oates.

LOL

Buzz knows what "the truth" is.

And he knows that it is "defamation" to post a photo of Frazier knocking poor Ali flat on his back.

always comes to this pic why?

[p4p1]

I thought for one glorious moment the thread said 'GRANBERRY you are a right tit'. That would be some thread, a possible sticky.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Poor buzz has been "led to the truth" by Thomas Hauser and Norman Mailer.

And we must not forget Joyce Carol Oates.

LOL

Buzz knows what "the truth" is.

And he knows that it is "defamation" to post a photo of Frazier knocking poor Ali flat on his back.

always comes to this pic why?

Did you see my post about Two Ton Tony?

Everybody gets knocked down...The great Joe Louis got knocked down by a fat slob like Tony Galento...

[p4p1]

Poor buzz has been "led to the truth" by Thomas Hauser and Norman Mailer.

And we must not forget Joyce Carol Oates.

LOL

Buzz knows what "the truth" is.

And he knows that it is "defamation" to post a photo of Frazier knocking poor Ali flat on his back.

always comes to this pic why?

Did you see my post about Two Ton Tony?

Everybody gets knocked down...The great Joe Louis got knocked down by a fat slob like Tony Galento...

but they both got up... something im sure gran has never had the courage to do.. i will ask him if he has everfoughtif he has i wil admit my mistake but he will never do it

[TheOneIsHere2008]

p4p1

Granberry is never going to answer your question directly and even if he does answer he will put his own spin on it...

He's just full of hate....

It's best to ignore him...

But it is difficult...

[granberry]

Edited by Mod - offensive comments

You must understand that collins[TheOne] knows that he MUST destroy anyone who laughs at his pathetic Religion of Ali.

Pointing out that Jimmy Young gave Ali a boxing lesson cannot be allowed

according to the Religion of Ali.

In fact, members of The Religion of Ali like buzz say it is "defamation" for anyone to post
a photo of Joe Frazier knocking poor Ali flat on his back.

WHY?

Because that goes DIRECTLY against everything their Thomas Hauser-created Religion of Ali stands for

and MUST NOT be allowed.