UNDER 19

[Dennis]

Mel believes that there are no biased officials.

Arghhhh! I didn't say that! Untrained, yes. It's very difficult to score for a "name" on the computer - whatever "name" means. I just react whenever someone uses the standard "robbed" whine. Yuk!

If an official wants to favor a boxer, it would not be hard to do. I hope that there aren't any that do it deliberately, but the subconscious bias could still affect their scoring.

[Dennis]

106 lbs/48 kg: Oscar Cantu, Kingsville, Texas dec. Thomas Huitt-Johnson, St. Joseph, Md. 16-3
112 lbs/51 kg: Adam Lopez, San Antonio, Texas, dec. Johnny Determan, Omaha, Neb., 12-5
119 lbs/54 kg: Joshua Berrelleza, Riverside, Calif. dec. Alexis Santiago, Phoenix, Ariz., 7-6
119 lbs/54 kg: Joe Perez, East Moline, Ill. stopped Gino Ramos, Honolulu, Hawaii, RSC-4 (:21)
125 lbs/57 kg: Kevin Rivers, Palmer Park, Md. stopped Daniel Guerrero, Bryan, Texas, RSCH-1 (:34)
125 lbs/57 kg: Ronny Rios, Santa Ana, Calif. dec. Robert Rodriguez, Evans, Colo., 27-17
132 lbs/60 kg: Arlo Argueta, Phoenix, Ariz. dec. Rockne Harris, Garland, Texas, 17-9
132 lbs/60 kg: Traon Bynum, Washington, D.C. dec. Robert Easter, Toledo, Ohio, 23-16
141 lbs/64 kg: Jonathan Escoto, Sunfish Lake, Minn. dec. Jordan Jones, Garland, Texas, 9-5
141 lbs/64 kg: Roscoe Hill, Spring, Texas won on walkover over Gary Russell III, Capitol Heights, Md., w/o
152 lbs/69 kg: Juan Heraldez, Las Vegas, Nev. dec. Manuel Contreras, St. Paul Park, Minn. 11-2
152 lbs/69 kg: Errol Spence, Desoto, Texas stopped Daniel Thomas, Concord, Calif. RET-2 (2:00)
165 lbs/75 kg: Luis Arias, Milwaukee, Wisc. stopped Marcus Chapman, Indianapolis, Ind., RSC-2 (1:11)
165 lbs/75 kg: Marcus Browne, Staten Island, N.Y., dec. Joe Strong, Midwest City, Oak., 10-2
178 lbs/81 kg: Robert Brant, Oakdale, Minn. dec. Antwon Herndon, Austell, Ga., 15-7
201 lbs/91 kg: Hasim Rahman, Las Vegas, Nev. stopped Justin Lynch, Albermade, N.C., RSCOS-2 (2:00)
210+ lbs/91+ kg: Joseph Dawejko, Philadelphia, Pa. dec. Jeffrey Page, Andover, Kan., 20-11

I don't know who ended up making weight in each weight class. There are more 106# boxers than just 3 so obviously some guys just didn't show up for the tournament or didn't make weight. If Cantu has to box Byrd or Cervantes, he might be in trouble.
112 - Lopez won, but who is he boxing in the finals?
119 - Berrelleza v. Perez. I don't know either boxer.
125 - Rivers v. Rios. Rios plowed through Rodriguez and Aleem which is impressive. However, Rivers has two stoppage wins, but I didn't know either opponent. I will go with Rios to win.
132 - Argueto v. Bynum. This looks like it should be a good matchup. They both have had some good wins to make it to the finals.
141 - Escoto v. Hill. Should be very competitive, but I would have liked to see Gary Alan Russell III in the finals. Does anyone know if he had issues of his own or was it because of his brother's Olympic dream ending?
152 - Heraldez v. Spence. They both have done well. I have seen Spence and he is good. Heraldez hasn't had a close bout and he defeated some decent boxers so he has to be good.
165 - Arias v. Browne. Now we will find out if Browne is for real. He probably is and will still lose. If he can keep the score close it will say that he is a year away from being an amazing open-class boxer. If he wins, WOW. I will go with Arias to win.
178 - Brant vs. ? I don't have a clue on this one.
201 - The young "rock" vs. Kisner. This should be a good bout. Not necessarily exciting. Kisner will stick and move and test Rahman's footwork and foot speed. I wouldn't think that Rahman is experienced enough to win this one. We'll see. I predict Kisner will win.
201+ - Dawejko v. Montoya. Joey to win! Joey Dawejko that is.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

125 - Rivers v. Rios. Rios plowed through Rodriguez and Aleem which is impressive. However, Rivers has two stoppage wins, but I didn't know either opponent. I will go with Rios to win.

I will go with Rivers. I know him pretty well :) and he will be ready for Rios!

201 - The young "rock" vs. Kisner. This should be a good bout. Not necessarily exciting. Kisner will stick and move and test Rahman's footwork and foot speed. I wouldn't think that Rahman is experienced enough to win this one. We'll see. I predict Kisner will win.

There isn't an amateur 201 boxer in the US that moves like Nick or one that can box effectively with a conventional or southpaw stance. I saw him give Paul Koon a boxing lesson at the USA Regionals during his first open tournament. He's still young, but Nick is one hell of a boxer.

[boxmel]

If an official wants to favor a boxer, it would not be hard to do. I hope that there aren't any that do it deliberately, but the subconscious bias could still affect their scoring.

True - but it's hard to (and, yes, I'll use the word) cheat on the computer unless you continually push the button for one boxer. The techs see this and they will tell the ring captain. BTW - any idea who the computer tech is?

[Hugo]

Does anybody knows who is in the finals tomorrow,thanks.

[Dennis]

Under 19 National Championship Winners
106 lbs/48 kg: Oscar Cantu, Kingsville, Texas
112 lbs/51 kg: Adam Lopez, San Antonio, Texas
119 lbs/54 kg: Joshua Berrelleza, Riverside, Calif.
125 lbs/57 kg: Ronny Rios, Santa Ana, Calif.
132 lbs/60 kg: Traon Bynum, Washington, D.C.
141 lbs/64 kg: Roscoe Hill, Spring, Texas
152 lbs/69 kg: Errol Spence, Desoto, Texas
165 lbs/75 kg: Luis Arias, Milwaukee, Wisc.
178 lbs/81 kg: Robert Brant, Oakdale, Minn.
201 lbs/91 kg: Nicholas Kisner, Glen Burme, Md.
201+ lbs/91+ kg: Joesph Dawejko, Philadelphia, Pa.

[Dennis]

Arias won, but Browne kept it close. The open-class middleweights had better watch out for Browne as he gave Arias a great battle.

[boxmel]

112 lbs/51 kg: Adam Lopez, San Antonio, Texas
119 lbs/54 kg: Joshua Berrelleza, Riverside, Calif.
125 lbs/57 kg: Ronny Rios, Santa Ana, Calif.

Dennis - Berrelleza and Rios are from my LBC and Adam Lopez started here. How did they look? Josh's brother boxed amateur for awhile and turned pro. I don't believe I've seen Josh compete.

[Dennis]

Mel - I'm not in KC. I was just reporting the results. USAB had the scores of some bouts, but not all.

[boxmel]

Oh - thought you were there. Maybe DCAB can fill me in.

[Sportssummary]

Any idea what happened with Jose Bernal?? He was originally matched but I don't see that he actually fought. I'm guessing he didn't attend and my reporting is WRONG. I don't like to be wrong. :(

[trennis harris]

JUST Like we perdicted ROCKNE HARRIS 132 went home with a medal. A well earned BRONZE! This means that he is one of best 17 and 18 year olds in the division.in fact he is the number 3 guy along with another good boxer ROBERT EASTER who also earned BRONZE.WE don't know what happend to JOSHUA DAVIS. HE told me that is coach would not lel him box because of weight. it did not look like he had a rib problem to us at the weight ins.Thats to bad for DAVIS we know he is a good boxer. So lets give some credit to ROCKNE HARRIS who showed up in the ring ready to compete for the 132lb under 19 title.So the win by walk over set HARRIS up in the simifinals with ARLO ARGUETA a good boxer out of AZ.HARRIS leaded 7-4 for the 1st 2 and half rounds. goog fight! 17 -9 win for ARGUETA. ROCKNE HARRIS GOT THE BRONZE. U GOT TO BE IN IT TO WIN IT!

[the_boxer]

Arias won, but Browne kept it close. The open-class middleweights had better watch out for Browne as he gave Arias a great battle.

THAT WAS A GREAT FIGHT! BROWNE HAD POINTS TOOKEN ALSO BUT THEY BOTH ARE LOOKING LIKE SOME BEAST OUT THIER

[DCAmateurBoxing]

112 lbs/51 kg: Adam Lopez, San Antonio, Texas
119 lbs/54 kg: Joshua Berrelleza, Riverside, Calif.
125 lbs/57 kg: Ronny Rios, Santa Ana, Calif.

Dennis - Berrelleza and Rios are from my LBC and Adam Lopez started here. How did they look? Josh's brother boxed amateur for awhile and turned pro. I don't believe I've seen Josh compete.

I have a little bit of Berrelleza's bout here (first two rds because I had another boxers to get ready) per a request from a forum member. I also have Rios in the finals against Kevin Rivers. Here are both links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-uY74sT9dY Alexis Santiago vs. Joshua Berrelleza (1st 2 rounds only)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L_v8UOhjk4 Kevin Rivers vs. Ronny Rios

Mel, during several bouts, the referee stopped action and pulled out gauze to treat boxers with a bloody noses. I've never seen this before as a ref will generally stop action and bring boxer to doctor first. Guess what I did - I read the rulebook and found:

"Referees may, at their discretion, call a doctor into the ring during a round to examine an injured boxer. After asking the advice of a doctor, either during the round or between rounds, said referee must abide by the doctor’s decision.

(10) The referee, upon noticing any bleeding about the head, shall give the command “stop.” The referee will have on their person a gauze pad to clean the injured area. If the area continues to bleed, the referee will consult the ringside physician. The physician will inform the referee whether the bout is to continue or issue an RSC. See 107.1(8). The referee may summon the physician as often as necessary during a bout to include between rounds."

Is this really common? Like I said, I usually see referees summon the doctor. I would rather a doctor treat my boxer or allow me to try to treat him versus a referee, who may not have any experience at all treating injuries.

[boxmel]

Is this really common? Like I said, I usually see referees summon the doctor. I would rather a doctor treat my boxer or allow me to try to treat him versus a referee, who may not have any experience at all treating injuries.

Yes. The thinking is that since the referee has full control of the ring, he or she can act accordingly when it comes to calling in the doctor, or not. In most cases, if a boxer has a nose bleed that doesn't appear to come from a broken nose, the ref will just wipe the boxer's nose and let the bout go on. As you know, if we stopped bouts for every bloody nose, some kids would never get any experience! If, for some/any reason, the blood thickens and will not stop, the ref might either stop the bout himself or go to the doctor for the doctor's opinion. The ref isn't "treating" the boxer. Neither does the doctor, actually.

It is my opinion that if a ref keeps taking the boxer to the doctor he (1) should have made the decision to stop the bout or (2) he doesn't have much experience and/or (3) he doesn't have control of his ring.

[caboxingfan21]

I have been a fan of local amateur boxing for a long time and I must say I am very impressed with Ronny Rios. I have been following Ronny these past fews years and I cannot believe how in such a short amount of time he has accomplished so much. How extraordinary that at such a young age he has gained somewhere near 10 national titles, the most recent being the under 19's. I can't wait to see how Ronny continues to excel. What is even more impressive to me is that after the trials he won another U.S. Men's and now moved up to 125, outclassing every opponent at the Under 19's. It was funny to read a previous post about Keith Rivers being "ready" for Ronny, but clearly he was not. It was very easy to see that people got caught up in Keith beating less experienced and unknown fighters...once he faced Ronny, who is at another level, he was lost. Congrats to Ronny once again, I see bright things in his future as an amateur and professional!

[HeavyHittr]

125 - Rivers v. Rios. Rios plowed through Rodriguez and Aleem which is impressive. However, Rivers has two stoppage wins, but I didn't know either opponent. I will go with Rios to win.

I will go with Rivers. I know him pretty well :) and he will be ready for Rios!

201 - The young "rock" vs. Kisner. This should be a good bout. Not necessarily exciting. Kisner will stick and move and test Rahman's footwork and foot speed. I wouldn't think that Rahman is experienced enough to win this one. We'll see. I predict Kisner will win.

There isn't an amateur 201 boxer in the US that moves like Nick or one that can box effectively with a conventional or southpaw stance. I saw him give Paul Koon a boxing lesson at the USA Regionals during his first open tournament. He's still young, but Nick is one hell of a boxer.

That was a good bout..no robbery Kisner clearly won, but it made you wonder what would happen if "young rock" had the experience kisner did. This was kisners hundreth bout and Rahmans 11th so i'd love to see this fight again in the future

Joey d looked awsome along with Luis Arias coming back from being dropped in the 1st round

GO USA!

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I have been a fan of local amateur boxing for a long time and I must say I am very impressed with Ronny Rios. I have been following Ronny these past fews years and I cannot believe how in such a short amount of time he has accomplished so much. How extraordinary that at such a young age he has gained somewhere near 10 national titles, the most recent being the under 19's. I can't wait to see how Ronny continues to excel. What is even more impressive to me is that after the trials he won another U.S. Men's and now moved up to 125, outclassing every opponent at the Under 19's. It was funny to read a previous post about Keith Rivers being "ready" for Ronny, but clearly he was not. It was very easy to see that people got caught up in Keith (edit: Kevin) beating less experienced and unknown fighters...once he faced Ronny, who is at another level, he was lost. Congrats to Ronny once again, I see bright things in his future as an amateur and professional!

I did base my comment on the fact that I know Kevin , but also on the fact that he won three bouts at the National Golden Gloves this year and looked good. I didn't base it on his first two bouts at the Under 19s, because clearly those boxers were overmatched. As far as the Rios bout, Kevin looked good to me at the onset (It was 1-0 after 1st Round and 9-7 Rios at the halfway point),) but throughout the bout, I just couldn't seem to figure out what the judges were scoring. Now, take that statement literally. I'm just talking about my understanding of what the judges were scoring. I was standing right in front of the score display and would look at it whenever the boxers engaged. When I thought it would be a point, I would look and see no change. When I thought a blow wasn't a scoring blow - it would be scored. I'm not saying that there was an advantage for one boxer or the other - I just couldn't see what the judges were looking for in general. I guess that's why I'm not a judge. Ronny did what he had to do. He got up on the scores and held his lead by avoiding any real engaging. He clearly understands the scoring system and that's what it's all about. He's a good boxers, and I would love to see his trial bout vs. Gary Russell that everyone is always talking about. If anyone has that, PM me.

I think it would be interesting to have one camera on the bout and one on the scoring -then superimpose the score on the video of the bout so that viewers can see what is scored and what is not.

[caboxingfan21]

I apologize for the incorrect spelling, Kevin is clearly a capable fighter, but it is just as clear that because a fighter keeps a bout close for the first two rounds of a fight does not mean that fighter is prepared or able to secure a victory. I was only responding to the fact that you had mentioned Kevin would be "ready" for Ronny and clearly he was not "ready" if he could not do better than keep a bout close for two rounds. Ronny is an intelligent fighter and did what seemed to me was the most simple thing he could do against a less experienced fighter...build an early lead and defend it, while forcing his opponent to catch up and make the mistakes. I think it is clear that all of Kevin's fans would agree he was not ready to fight Ronny, let alone beat him by the way their attitudes and chants shifted throughout the video posted on youtube. They were very supportive and loud in the beginning but that support quickly turned to desperation as I even heard his fans yelling, "you gotta knock him for them to give it to you". For me personally, if a fighter's fans are yelling such statements, it is the same as them admitting you have just completely lost the bout unless you end it with a knockout. The desperation and fact that Ronny swept the final rounds was obvious and at that point Ronny was just picking his shots from the outside. As far as the scoring, clearly a biased fan that expected Kevin to be ready for Ronny would not agree with the scoring, but the fact is, the point system is put into effect to award points based on an objective opinion. I saw many clear shots landed by Ronny that I felt could have been added to his overall points, but I am not a Judge and cannot speculate why they were not counted especially because my opinion is subjective. I do know that Ronny controlled the bout and ended it by forcing his opponent to become desperate while looking for a knockout . In the end my pick won the fight for the main reasons I chose him... his experience, class and record. He has the experience against tougher competition, has the skills to dominant as shown and has lost only a handful of times. As far as the Gary Russell Jr. fight, I did hear by many that Ronny earned the win and that it was a highly controversial decision, but I do know one thing for sure...Ronny would have done better than Gary for the U.S. in the Olympics, as proven by his disqualification...

[boxmel]

I think it would be interesting to have one camera on the bout and one on the scoring -then superimpose the score on the video of the bout so that viewers can see what is scored and what is not.

Please remember that the camera only shows one point of view and there are five judges around the ring with different points of view. The viewers would only see what the camera sees or, possibly, what is seen by the judge on the same side as the camera.

Ronny would have done better than Gary for the U.S. in the Olympics, as proven by his disqualification...

Would Ronny have comfortably kept at 119 or below for a year without starving or constantly having to make weight?

[Dennis]

Watched the Kisner v Rahman bout. Kisner didn't run at all. In fact, surpisingly he was the aggressor. He easily won the bout and it looks like Rahman needs more experience.

[CoreyWash]

in the 132 finals i thought the scores should've been closer than what they were..i saw a few times that the other guy who rockne fought was given like 2 points for punches that rockne landed..in the end i still think rockne lost, but not by the margin he lost by..and also the 165 lb final between luis arias and marcus browne was a good fight..i thought the fight was a lot closer than the final score said, but thats just me..it was a good experience for me because it was my first big open competition(though i fought in the rwc), and i learned some things from younger, but more experienced guys..im hoping i can do the pals, but i have to work to support myself and pay all my bills so idk if i will be able to or not..

[Unit]

i told you guys browne is a good up and comer....But iunno....me & my brother will be at the pals tho.....i think midget might be going 112 for the pals....i'll try to stay at 132...but i'm even hungry at the Moment :)

J/P anyone'll be there see ya there...Oh & i'll fight at the marciano tournament aswell

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I think it would be interesting to have one camera on the bout and one on the scoring -then superimpose the score on the video of the bout so that viewers can see what is scored and what is not.

Please remember that the camera only shows one point of view and there are five judges around the ring with different points of view. The viewers would only see what the camera sees or, possibly, what is seen by the judge on the same side as the camera.

Ok, Mel. I get it. . . judging from a camera isn't a fair assessment I understand, but I keep forgetting. How about this. I'll get one camera on each side to give us more angles that just the one. :)

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I apologize for the incorrect spelling, Kevin is clearly a capable fighter, but it is just as clear that because a fighter keeps a bout close for the first two rounds of a fight does not mean that fighter is prepared or able to secure a victory. I was only responding to the fact that you had mentioned Kevin would be "ready" for Ronny and clearly he was not "ready" if he could not do better than keep a bout close for two rounds. Ronny is an intelligent fighter and did what seemed to me was the most simple thing he could do against a less experienced fighter...build an early lead and defend it, while forcing his opponent to catch up and make the mistakes. I think it is clear that all of Kevin's fans would agree he was not ready to fight Ronny, let alone beat him by the way their attitudes and chants shifted throughout the video posted on youtube. They were very supportive and loud in the beginning but that support quickly turned to desperation as I even heard his fans yelling, "you gotta knock him for them to give it to you". For me personally, if a fighter's fans are yelling such statements, it is the same as them admitting you have just completely lost the bout unless you end it with a knockout.

I thought I was clear in admitting that Ronny won this fight. As far as his fans, please keep in mind a boxer can't chose who roots for him and clearly those doing so including people that aren't familiar with the sport. As far as the scoring, I was referring to the first half of the bout. I thought there was more points than "1" in the entire first round. Similarly, I thought there was more than "13 or 14" in the first 3 rounds.

The desperation and fact that Ronny swept the final rounds was obvious and at that point Ronny was just picking his shots from the outside. As far as the scoring, clearly a biased fan that expected Kevin to be ready for Ronny would not agree with the scoring, but the fact is, the point system is put into effect to award points based on an objective opinion. I saw many clear shots landed by Ronny that I felt could have been added to his overall points, but I am not a Judge and cannot speculate why they were not counted especially because my opinion is subjective. I do know that Ronny controlled the bout and ended it by forcing his opponent to become desperate while looking for a knockout .

Again, I thought I was clear that I wasn't saying I thought Kevin scored more. I was talking about scoring for both boxers. In my post, I wanted to make sure that you understood I was just speaking for myself about what was scored and what wasn't for both boxers. Maybe , I should have chose my words a little different.

In the end my pick won the fight for the main reasons I chose him... his experience, class and record. He has the experience against tougher competition, has the skills to dominant as shown and has lost only a handful of times. As far as the Gary Russell Jr. fight, I did hear by many that Ronny earned the win and that it was a highly controversial decision, but I do know one thing for sure...Ronny would have done better than Gary for the U.S. in the Olympics, as proven by his disqualification...

Ok, I get it. You were right and Ronny is better. I wasn't arguing that at all. However, I don't agree with the Russell statement as there are more issues going on there with coaching staff, etc. If I had a fighter that was having weight difficulties a week prior, I would have monitored his weight closer. Especially, if he was 'living with me' (residency program) for the sole purpose of me having more control and access to him. I also agree with Mel that it's obviously harder to keep a 20 year-old's body from going through changes for a full year. Even Ronny is at a higher weight now. Also, people keep saying that Ronny should have been on the US Team, but the trials was a double elimination so it wasn't just the Russell loss that kept him off the team, he lost to Marroquin. Russell beat Marroquin easily two nights in a row. So, who's to say what SHOULD have happened. I wish the best for all of these guys because they are all great assets to amateur boxing.