Rau'shee Warren loses his first bout

[Dennis]

How can this happen?
Rau'shee lost 9-8 to Oksung Lee of Korea in his first bout of the Olympics. Now two of our three best hopes for gold are out of the tournament - Russell and Warren. We have Andrade still in it.
I sure hope that Williams or Wilder can also get a gold or silver with the other getting a bronze. Then if Yanez or Estrada can somehow get a bronze so the team can end up with 4 medals. Is it going to happen? Probably not. USAB will be lucky to end up with 2 medals just like 4 years ago.

[therealPunchDrunk]

I read he ran in the last round, thinking he was ahead, when he was in fact behind... Don't know if that is accurate information though.

[boxmel]

I read he ran in the last round, thinking he was ahead, when he was in fact behind... Don't know if that is accurate information though.

That's hard to believe since he, and the coaches, can see the score. An Australian coach friend of mine said Rau'shee was very sloppy - as have been most of the boxers I've seen so far.

What ever happened to the good boxers who threw straight punches and didn't hold and/or wrestle? And that has nothing to do with the computer scoring as you can't get points holding and wrestling.

[therealPunchDrunk]

I don't know, didn't see the fight, someone who allegedly did see it posted that over at BS.

You must've missed that Bulgarian, Boris Georgiev. He fought a very clean fight, with some good straight punches and a lot of movement instead of holding.

[Dennis]

I read that he did move around at the end looking for an opening, but didn't throw anything. If you have his handspeed, go for it. That is not my style of coaching - to sit back and hope for an opening. He could have created an opening. It is better to try than to sit back and take a "called strike" while hoping for a "walk". Bad choice on Rau'shee's part. He will regret it more than if he had just let his hands fly.

[locoxelbox]

I´m surprised. Lee had given Warren something of a boxing lesson last time out but that was three years ago and hasn´t done too well since while Warren hadn´t lost for two years.
Style makes fights and Warren had problems last time out when he fell behind and it probably happened to him again. Two of my gold medal favorites are out (Selimov and Warren) .

[Sweet P]

Very close fight, Warrens corner was a disgrace he thought he was ahead and ran the last 40 seconds. I really hate amature boxing the judging is pathetic. Clean punches arnt scored as Warren landed 2-3 in some exchanges and didnt get 1 and then hardly landed and got a point.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I cannot believe this. Does anyone else feel like our entire program is suspect? How can we have so much talent and come up so short? I know that it's not talent. I think it is preparation and focus. Hopefully, there will be some changes made from top to bottom to help our next crop of Olympians be better prepared. I'm confident we have the talent to do well in the Olympics, but something is very wrong with how get that talent prepared.

As I was watching the 51kgs yesterday, I was really feeling good about our chances with Warren. I haven't seen the bout yet, but just reading about it leaves me thinking - how? So, according to what I read - the crowd was cheering loudly and Raushee thought they were yelling because he was up on pts, when he wasn't. Apparently, he was looking into the stands towards the latter part of the bout. . . taking his cue from them. His corner was trying to communicate to him that he needed to score, but wasn't able to. Unacceptable in my book.

Again, I've been watching the next batch of Olympic hopefuls at the National Junior Olympics, Silver Gloves and Future Stars tournaments- and they defintely have the talent. I hope that we can address all that needs to be fixed or it's going to be a real tough sell for some of these boxers to even stay in the amateur ranks for London 2012. I'm sure that Raushee and Russell can only wonder about where they would be if they turned pro a couple of years ago.

I watched Sadam's bout and it blew my mind during the interview when he said that after he wasn't winning after the first round, that messed up his game plan. He basically said that he was supposed to be up on pts so that he could hold the lead. When asked by Jim Gray 'Why did you abandon your jab after the first round? You were only down 3-2?", Sadam told him that since he wasn't up on pts after the first, he knew that his opponent would run and avoid him because "that's what Olympic boxing is all about". A jab isn't going to score, only right hands. If you think about his comments, it really demonstrates why are boxers aren't as prepared as they should be. Has this what boxing has become? I spoke with coach the other day who has a pro boxer signed with one of the major promotion companies and he said that's why he hates Olympic boxing now. He said they should not have open scoring because when they didn't have it, the boxers would actually try to box and win. Bouts were more exciting. He remembers being excited to watch Sugar Ray Leonard and having entire families glued to the TV. Can anyone say that now? I can't. Maybe he's right.

I think I'm going to watch swimming now. I don't even want to read any more disappointing news. Good luck to Yanez, Andrade, Williams (who gives me the most hope for medal contention), Wilder and Estrada. I hope that we can get a medal or two.

[boxmel]

I have never liked the idea of open scoring - however this is Wu's claim to fame for cleaning up amateur boxing after the Chowdhrey corruption years. We'll see if it backfires.

The mere fact that Rau'shee didn't just keep throwing punches escapes me. Since the scores were tied at the end of each round, why in the hell wouldn't he just keep his hands going to make sure he won? That's not the Rau'shee I know.

Hopefully, there will be some changes made from top to bottom to help our next crop of Olympians be better prepared.

Don't get your hopes up. And, just being curious, what would you suggest?

[Kolya]

I can't believe Rau'shee lost. It seems everyone I'm reading about it is shocked and gutted; hopefully it doesn't do much damage to the team's morale.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I forgot to quote that Dan Campbell gave after the Warren loss. Now tell me if this isn't the work of a master motivator (read: sarcasm):

"For him [Warren] to lose could be disheartening for some of our other guys. That's going to be our biggest fear. ... I think they're most definitely going to be psyched out. We have a psychologist around, and we're going to make sure that she talks to this team, because I'm sure all of them are going to be psyched out by this."

Yes, he said that. He also said that he was "close to speechless", but I really wish he would get there already. He may as well said, "Ok, we're going to go back home now, fellas. It's over."

[Kolya]

I forgot to quote that Dan Campbell gave after the Warren loss. Now tell me if this isn't the work of a master motivator (read: sarcasm):

"For him [Warren] to lose could be disheartening for some of our other guys. That's going to be our biggest fear. ... I think they're most definitely going to be psyched out. We have a psychologist around, and we're going to make sure that she talks to this team, because I'm sure all of them are going to be psyched out by this."

Yes, he said that. He also said that he was "close to speechless", but I really wish he would get there already. He may as well said, "Ok, we're going to go back home now, fellas. It's over."

Holy crap. I missed you at Ringside man; what gym were you there with?

[boxmel]

Maybe the psychologist could be put in Campbell's place? She might do a better job.

[emile]

I think you made a good post DCAB. It is disheartening to have so many bouts with controversial responses. Whether or not the judging is being done well or is set up well feels irrelevant when young fighters are sobbing. I feel sick to my stomach for Rau'Shee, but then again what about Lee Ok-Sung. He's also a world champion and has put in years of effort to get to this point. If he had lost a close bout his first time out it would also have been disheartening. Whether it's pro or amateur, boxing always is cruel and it's always very hard to accept losing on points.

I think there are some changes that can be made - seeding the draw, continued reform to the scoring system, etc - but this type of thing cannot be avoided, unless you have the fighters go until one can no longer stand. There have been worse injustices in boxing, and far worse injustices in other sports. Ultimately, I don't believe Rau'Shee and Gary have hurt their professional prospects in any way. Rau'Shee has accomplished so much, it would be a shame to only focus on his early Olympic disappointments.

I'm generally opposed to open scoring, but I wonder if closed scoring would help much. If you have two fighters who believe they are ahead (and boxers always seem to think they are ahead), who is to say they wont both stay back in the third and fourth rounds and then one will just gnash their teeth after the score is announced.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Holy crap. I missed you at Ringside man; what gym were you there with?

Dream Team. I had 3 jrs. We won one title. Between working the boxers and trying to record everything, I was slammed. I'll catch you at the next tourney or if you ever get to the DC area, let me know.

[Kolya]

Holy crap. I missed you at Ringside man; what gym were you there with?

Dream Team. I had 3 jrs. We won one title. Between working the boxers and trying to record everything, I was slammed. I'll catch you at the next tourney or if you ever get to the DC area, let me know.

You going to the PAL? I might come back in the October-December region to visit, see if I can't get a match or two if we have shows back there.

[REED]

How Bout that Residency Program??!!!

8)

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Hopefully, there will be some changes made from top to bottom to help our next crop of Olympians be better prepared.

Don't get your hopes up. And, just being curious, what would you suggest?

Mel, I've only been involved in amateur boxing for 5 years, but I'm smart enough to know that I DON'T KNOW. I just think that everything should be looked at. I do think that boxing is much different that other sports: basketball, gymnastics, track, etc as far as the personal style that athletes bring to the table. In a lot of other sports, every athlete pretty much has the same technique and approach to how the perform their sport. It's just a matter of who does it better. In boxing, it's not that case. If you can get away with doing something differently because it works for you, but is against convention - you may be able to make it work well. You just don't see basketball players throwing set shots or underhand free throws anymore, you know. With that being said, I think the personal coaches should be given the opportunity to be more involved in the training. If I were a parent of a boxer who's coach got him to the Olympic team - he can have my ticket to Beijing. As much time as there is between making the team to the actual games - I'm sure there are plenty of ways to raise funds to help with the costs of getting coaches involved. It's already done for family members. I know that it may not be possible for all coaches to go, but at least let them have some input. Who knows, it may have helped Gary make weight or help Yanez accept the residency program easier. I don't know, I just know it's definitely not working. We have too much talent in our US boxing program to go down with what amounts to "no fight" in Beijing. I can't even put into words how disappointed I am.

[boxmel]

I feel sick to my stomach for Rau'Shee, but then again what about Lee Ok-Sung. He's also a world champion and has put in years of effort to get to this point. If he had lost a close bout his first time out it would also have been disheartening. Whether it's pro or amateur, boxing always is cruel and it's always very hard to accept losing on points.

Emile, I don't think anyone with any brains, or knowledge of amateur boxing, will disagree with you. It's just that us Americans are shocked at the outcome because there was no reason to believe Rau'shee couldn't bring home the gold.

I

think there are some changes that can be made - seeding the draw, continued reform to the scoring system, etc

We seed at the U.S. Championships by putting the number 1 through 4 boxers on opposite sides of the bracket and seeded so they box in the prelims - no byes. I don't know how it would work in the Olympics. Would you seed just the World champions? And what would your suggestions be re continued reforming of the ESS?

I'm generally opposed to open scoring, but I wonder if closed scoring would help much. If you have two fighters who believe they are ahead (and boxers always seem to think they are ahead), who is to say they wont both stay back in the third and fourth rounds and then one will just gnash their teeth after the score is announced.

I saw less running when the scoring wasn't open.

[boxmel]

I think the personal coaches should be given the opportunity to be more involved in the training.

I think this might work ONLY if the personal coach and the head coach are on the same page. They would both have to agree on the same training process, execution of techniques and preparation in general. Considering the egos involved in coaching, I doubt seriously that this would ever fly. Mike Stafford, Rau'shee's personal coach, probably spent more time at the OTC than any other personal coach and Rau'shee still couldn't perform at the crucial time. So I ask you - did having Mike involved in the training prior to the Olympics help Rau'shee in his first bout?

[emile]

I was thinking about seeding last night and this morning. I think the only fair way to do it is to seed champions (ie not seeding runners up or bronze medalists, because often those positions are due to draws to begin with).

You could seed the reigning World Champion #1 and put them in the bye bracket, and then seed any other former World Champions at that weight, former Olympic Champions at that weight, and all reigning Continental champions. This would not necessarily prevent tough draws, so I don't even know if it would be worthwhile. For example it would have allowed Selimov and Lomachenko to still be drawn together in the same semifinal group, although Selimov would have had a bye at least.

It does seem to me that the AIBA has been pretty successful at making the sport more transparent and less subject to monkey business. But, making something more transparent also makes it easier to see specific blemishes, and I fear they won't get any credit for their reform in the wake of controversial scoring.

Getting the judges a better view point seems the most essential to me. I don't know if having judges score off of video monitors would be better or worse. Mel, how would you feel about being dangled above the ring in a harness so your view would never be blocked?

[CoreyWash]

wow..i had very high expectations for raushee..he & andrade were my two picks for gold..idk whats going on..i havent seen any of the fights yet, but i keep hearing how everyone is either lookin sloppy or just not impressive..the only person i've heard that actually looked nice was raynell..hopefully the guys get their heads on straight and handle their business..good luck to luis, raynell, demetrius, shawn, and deontay

[boxmel]

Emile, your seeding suggestion gave me a headache! 8) Too many champions to figure out where to put them and, as you saw, it probably wouldn't have made that much of a difference. And, actually, if you seed, they shouldn't get byes.

Getting the judges a better view point seems the most essential to me. I don't know if having judges score off of video monitors would be better or worse.

The better view scenario has been discussed forever. Scoring off monitors isn't any different than scoring without them. The cost would probably be a bit prohibitive because you would need a fixed camera behind each judge and exactly at the judge's eye level that, somehow, would also have to move when the judge moved his/her head to watch the boxers. Frankly, I would rather be able to watch the bout myself than through a "second party."

Mel, how would you feel about being dangled above the ring in a harness so your view would never be blocked?

You are soooo funny!!! Would you believe that has been discussed, too? Not the dangling above the ring (would probably get dizzy and throw up on the boxers) but putting judges on high stools so they could see better (where would you put the keypads?). However, that kind of angle isn't good either as you would have to look "down" rather than "at."

[holeymoley99]

Now we are up to 3 defending World champions and favorites to win their weights eliminated in the opening round. This may be perhaps the biggest surprise of all though. I picked Balakshin to win this weight and right now that pick looks a whole lot better.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Emile, your seeding suggestion gave me a headache! 8) Too many champions to figure out where to put them and, as you saw, it probably wouldn't have made that much of a difference. And, actually, if you seed, they shouldn't get byes.
.

I agree. Random draws are fine with me. I just think NOT having open scoring would motivate boxers better and we would actually, see more. . .dare I say. . . boxing.

The better view scenario has been discussed forever. Scoring off monitors isn't any different than scoring without them. The cost would probably be a bit prohibitive because you would need a fixed camera behind each judge and exactly at the judge's eye level that, somehow, would also have to move when the judge moved his/her head to watch the boxers. Frankly, I would rather be able to watch the bout myself than through a "second party."

Mel, how would you feel about being dangled above the ring in a harness so your view would never be blocked?

Come on people, now we're just getting downright ridiculous. This is a beautiful sport and we don't need any gimmicks to ruin it. All we need to do is the have 1) Instant replay/slow motion for judges to take time to score each blow in between the rounds, which I vote should be at least 10 minutes to make sure they get enough time and 2) referee helmet cams because we all know that they are the only ones that keep close watch over the action. That view is all you need. Problem solved. End of discussion.

Can you tell my humor is masking my sorrow