Points for Hooks!

[CoreyWash]

I was just wondering if you get points for landing hooks to the head..i watched my fight over & over from ringside and felt like i completely won the fight..everytime i pivoted/angled i connected with left hooks to the guys head..so that brings me to my question..do you get points for hooks to the head or do they have to be straight shots? if you dont get points for hooks to the head then why use it?

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I was just wondering if you get points for landing hooks to the head..i watched my fight over & over from ringside and felt like i completely won the fight..everytime i pivoted/angled i connected with left hooks to the guys head..so that brings me to my question..do you get points for hooks to the head or do they have to be straight shots? if you dont get points for hooks to the head then why use it?

You are supposed to get points for a blow landed with the white part of the glove anywhere above the waist or head (and side of the head):

Each blow to have scoring value must, without being blocked or guarded, land directly with the knuckle part of the closed glove of either hand on any part of the front or sides of the head or body above the belt. Blows landing as above described are scoring hits. The value of blows scored in a rally of infighting shall be assessed at the end of such rally and shall be credited to the boxer who has had the better of the exchanges according to the degree of said boxer’s superiority.

The rules are pretty clear, but people add their own interpretation. I was told by an official that they try to tally infighting or flurry exchanges and count each punch! I also was told by an official that they don't count body punches. Another official told me that they don't count punches landed unless you are moving forward or the blow is "effective" whatever that means. The rules are clear, but judges understandings of the rules are what the problems are. I think they should have continual testing for judges that include scoring a fight live or on video (like virtual reality sitting in a hair, Mel :) ).

[CoreyWash]

yeah well they need to do something because i saw plenty other fights where clean hooks were landed off pivots and they werent given the points for it..its really frustrating for us boxers that are in there scoring yet not getting points for it..i was told by an official that body shots arent counted and i was told the opposite by another..from here on out i'll throw nothing but jabs and straight rights lol..maybe my right hand will score lol idk i guess i'll just have to work harder and KO everyone so the fight wont be left in the hands of the judges..but u cant KO everyone..

[DCAmateurBoxing]

yeah well they need to do something because i saw plenty other fights where clean hooks were landed off pivots and they werent given the points for it..its really frustrating for us boxers that are in there scoring yet not getting points for it..i was told by an official that body shots arent counted and i was told the opposite by another..from here on out i'll throw nothing but jabs and straight rights lol..maybe my right hand will score lol idk i guess i'll just have to work harder and KO everyone so the fight wont be left in the hands of the judges..but u cant KO everyone..

After Sadam's fight, during his interview, Jim Gray asked him "Why did you abandon your jab after the first round when you were only down 3-2?", Sadam said something to the effect of 'because they don't count jabs in Olympic boxing, only straight punches [crosses]'. Sounds like at least at the Olympic level, boxers are being taught to concentrate on power punches.

[CoreyWash]

good point cullin

[boxmel]

The rules are pretty clear, but people add their own interpretation. I was told by an official that they try to tally infighting or flurry exchanges and count each punch! I also was told by an official that they don't count body punches. Another official told me that they don't count punches landed unless you are moving forward or the blow is "effective" whatever that means. The rules are clear, but judges understandings of the rules are what the problems are.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can't count each punch in infighting because you can't see most of them land! Yes, body punches ARE counted. I definitely know where the problem is - the judges who gave you that information haven't a clue! Sad. Judges are supposed to train at local shows once they have mastered time keeping and should have at least 50 training bouts before being allowed to judge the 8 year olds. If a judge is trained correctly, they shouldn't even work a national advancing tournament until they have been officiating for at least two years.

Sadam said something to the effect of 'because they don't count jabs in Olympic boxing, only straight punches [crosses]'.

BS! I hope none of our coaches imparted that misinformation!

You know - I really wish I didn't care so much about fair officiating (and that includes referring, too!). But I think our boxers deserve the best we can give them. I honestly don't think officials deliberately cheat, in spite of what coaches and boxers think - they just don't have a clue if they haven't been trained properly.

[Dennis]

Even if certain judges aren't counting certain punches, doesn't mean you abandon them. A jab still needs to be used to set-up other punches, to keep your opponent at bay or busy with having to defend against it and to be a range finder. There are other reasons to use it - it can blind an opponent for a split second so they don't see the right hand (straight left for the southpaws out there) coming behind it. A jab can also get the opponent to raise his guard slightly or move a hand in which opens up the body or the head for hooks. It is useful in so many ways. The same thing with body punches - they can set up other punches, tire out your opponent or make them make mistakes. If all you are going to do is throw straight rights/lefts, it will be easy to defend against. Maybe that is why some of our guys aren't scoring, they believe this crap.

[Kolya]

I'm pretty sure most judges count jabs; anyway, I think I won my first match at Ringside pretty much with my jab and occasional right hands.

[Dennis]

I'm pretty sure most judges count jabs; anyway, I think I won my first match at Ringside pretty much with my jab and occasional right hands.

You're correct. Most judges do count jabs. They have to be thrown with some force of the shoulder behind them, i.e. they can't be just pawing with it. Some boxers jabs are harder than other guys power punches so they had better be counted.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

Even if certain judges aren't counting certain punches, doesn't mean you abandon them. A jab still needs to be used to set-up other punches, to keep your opponent at bay or busy with having to defend against it and to be a range finder. There are other reasons to use it - it can blind an opponent for a split second so they don't see the right hand (straight left for the southpaws out there) coming behind it. A jab can also get the opponent to raise his guard slightly or move a hand in which opens up the body or the head for hooks. It is useful in so many ways. The same thing with body punches - they can set up other punches, tire out your opponent or make them make mistakes. If all you are going to do is throw straight rights/lefts, it will be easy to defend against. Maybe that is why some of our guys aren't scoring, they believe this crap.

I agree 100%. I just wanted to demonstrate what is being taught to a lot of boxers when it comes to computer scoring/international scoring - even our Olympians.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

The rules are pretty clear, but people add their own interpretation. I was told by an official that they try to tally infighting or flurry exchanges and count each punch! I also was told by an official that they don't count body punches. Another official told me that they don't count punches landed unless you are moving forward or the blow is "effective" whatever that means. The rules are clear, but judges understandings of the rules are what the problems are.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can't count each punch in infighting because you can't see most of them land! Yes, body punches ARE counted. I definitely know where the problem is - the judges who gave you that information haven't a clue! Sad. Judges are supposed to train at local shows once they have mastered time keeping and should have at least 50 training bouts before being allowed to judge the 8 year olds. If a judge is trained correctly, they shouldn't even work a national advancing tournament until they have been officiating for at least two years.

I'm right there with you, Mel. I couldn't believe it either. The sad reality is that I can become a judge with NO training at all. A lot of LBCs are so short on officials to the point where anyone who wants to be one is welcomed and 'helped out' with any testing that needs to be done. It's a shame. Then, when that LBC has boxers that go out of the area to box, they wonder why they are DQ'd and penalized. Local judges aren't doing themselves or the boxers justice by not understanding the rules and letting boxers get away with things like slapping, holding, etc. I've seen this manifest itself a lot in tournaments and after speaking with other coaches/boxers.

Sadam said something to the effect of 'because they don't count jabs in Olympic boxing, only straight punches [crosses]'.

BS! I hope none of our coaches imparted that misinformation! You know - I really wish I didn't care so much about fair officiating (and that includes referring, too!). But I think our boxers deserve the best we can give them. I honestly don't think officials deliberately cheat, in spite of what coaches and boxers think - they just don't have a clue if they haven't been trained properly.

Again, I couldn't believe he said that, but it shows you what they've been learning in CS. The jab to me is the most useful punch in a boxers arsenal. It can be used so many different ways and is jabbing is such a lost artform that nowadays, if you can add a proper jab to your toolbox - a lot of your opponents will have trouble because they don't see a proper jab anymore. Most boxers nowadays are used to the pawing jab that is used as a range finder for the cross. If you've had a chance to see Ali or Warren's bouts, the jab was almost non-existent.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

I'm pretty sure most judges count jabs; anyway, I think I won my first match at Ringside pretty much with my jab and occasional right hands.

You're correct. Most judges do count jabs. They have to be thrown with some force of the shoulder behind them, i.e. they can't be just pawing with it. Some boxers jabs are harder than other guys power punches so they had better be counted.

You bring up a good point Dennis, I have heard many coach's say that a scoring punch must be "effective" or have "effective force behind it", meaning you have to see the effect of the punch on the boxer on the receiving in. Some judges take that too literally, meaning a punch can be a strong & forceful punch, which usually is enough to score-but if the boxer on the receiving in has a strong guard (shell defense) and the punch doesn't knock the boxer backwards some judges won't score it. When I look at the rulebook about what a scoring blow is, it says nothing about the effect of the punch. I think this is the biggest misconception of the rules. Obviously, there is a different between a "paw" and a "punch" , but if a true punch is thrown in the scoring area, shouldn't it be counted as a point - regardless of the effect? If not, then a really strong defensive shell (think Winky Wright) can eliminate what should amount to a scoring blow against a boxer that doesn't have as strong of a shell defense. I don't think a boxer should be penalized by not getting a point because his/her opponent is good at masking the effect. What does everyone think?

[boxmel]

but if a true punch is thrown in the scoring area, shouldn't it be counted as a point - regardless of the effect?

Yep. The criteria states that the punch must be thrown with the weight of the shoulder behind it. To me this just means it can't be "shoe shine" or "pitty pat" or, as was said, "pawing." This applies more to the older boxers, say starting at around 14, when they begin to get some strength. I have yet to see an 8-year-old throw a punch with ANY weight to it.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

but if a true punch is thrown in the scoring area, shouldn't it be counted as a point - regardless of the effect?

Yep. The criteria states that the punch must be thrown with the weight of the shoulder behind it. To me this just means it can't be "shoe shine" or "pitty pat" or, as was said, "pawing." This applies more to the older boxers, say starting at around 14, when they begin to get some strength. I have yet to see an 8-year-old throw a punch with ANY weight to it.

You better hope that I never meet you, Mel. I think I could talk to you FOREVER. Do you ever get to the East Coast?

[boxmel]

You better hope that I never meet you, Mel. I think I could talk to you FOREVER. Do you ever get to the East Coast?

I love to talk so we would probably hit it off just fine! Thanks to USAB, I've been to Marquette, Augusta, and Charlston - but I don't travel there specifically and probably never will. I have a daughter in Long Island - but with air fares, blah, blah. You can ask Brent Bovell about me, if you want to, however. He'll tell you how I like to talk!

[CoreyWash]

cullen, mel, and dennis--yall bring up some interesting points..and i was joking when i said i was gonna throw nothing but right hands lol..i doubt i'd win 1 match that way..yeah the jab is the most effective punch..like you all said it sets everything up for you and if ur a tall boxer like myself you can keep the shorter guys at a distance..also if ur throwing a good, hard jab rather than pawing it out there its more effective..the jab sets everything up! if you use it right and often enough the opponent will get so mesmerized and frustrated with the jab that he wont be expecting the cross or the hook off the jab..i wont lie though, i haven't been using the jab in the past the way i should and i WILL change that because me being 6'2 at 165 lbs w/ my power & speed i should be killing with the jab..my goal is to get to the point where if i have to throw the jab all night and its working then thats what i do..because eventually the jab will open up body shots..and if u put money in the bank(body) early you will wear ur guy down and those hands will drop..

[boxmel]

If you've had a chance to see Ali or Warren's bouts, the jab was almost non-existent.

Jab? What jab! I have absolutely no clue what Rau'shee was doing and Ali, bless his heart, was just plain overwhelmed.

[Dennis]

The team's preparation is not where it should have been.