Was this contest ever a consideration???[/b]
The two best middleweights in the world "early" 1940's,
if so, Who Wins and Why?
McAvoy vs Zale
What? No comments!
I thought this was a British site, and No One has anything to say about Britains greatest middleweight...
A fighter who was such a threat to American "supremacy" among the heavier weight divisions, that they froze him (McAvoy) out of World middleweight Titles!
Are we that afraid, that we can't stand up for one of our OWN TRUE World Beaters, or are our American posters likewise "unwilling" to acknowledge a British great, who would have walked through their top middleweights and many of their light-heavies aswell, late 30's early mid-40's...
Let's here it, did they ever try to arrange this fight (McAvoy-Zale)???
Who Wins???
A fighter who was such a threat to American "supremacy" among the heavier weight divisions, that they froze him (McAvoy) out of World middleweight Titles!
Are we that afraid, that we can't stand up for one of our OWN TRUE World Beaters, or are our American posters likewise "unwilling" to acknowledge a British great, who would have walked through their top middleweights and many of their light-heavies aswell, late 30's early mid-40's...
Let's here it, did they ever try to arrange this fight (McAvoy-Zale)???
Who Wins???
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TheRiverCityHippy
- Middleweight
- Posts: 8466
- Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 15:39
to be honest jim i wasn`t aware that mcavoy was rated so highly in the forties.
i know he was an all action fighter but the fights i`ve read about were he`s involved he always seems to lose!!!
wasn`t he knocked out by freddie mills in one round?
and i know len harvey beat him more than once.
initially i would have said zale but from the tone of your post jim it seems jock was a force to be reckoned with in those days.
any chance of a quick history lesson on him, you obviously rate him very highly.
i know he was an all action fighter but the fights i`ve read about were he`s involved he always seems to lose!!!
wasn`t he knocked out by freddie mills in one round?
and i know len harvey beat him more than once.
initially i would have said zale but from the tone of your post jim it seems jock was a force to be reckoned with in those days.
any chance of a quick history lesson on him, you obviously rate him very highly.
McAvoy
McAvoy was still highly regarded in the 40's, in 1945 during his short return he was placed right back in the World's Top 10 as a middleweight.
He was still British middleweight King untill 1944 even though he made No title defences since he was down to meet Bert Gilroy in 1940.
He DIDN"T get Ko'd by Mills in one round, it was a "technical" knockout owing to a sudden back injury during the open round,
In the first Mills' vs McAvoy fight Mills took the verdict on points after 10 close rounds.
In both Mills' and McAvoy's biographies they tell the same story of a young tiring Mills being "coached" on by the veteran McAvoy to "keep" going Son, keep going"...
Kind of sheds a new light on the Mills/McAvoy meetings,
the second fight "suddenly" finished before it even started, was an "eliminator" for the British light-heavyweight title,
And Mills fought and beat the even more aged "veteran" in Len Harvey for that title just 4 MONTHS later.
Mills was heavily backed$$$ and well STEARED and PROTECTED!!!
Which brings us to the McAvoy/Harvey "show-downs", Harvey a master in defence and probably Britains greatest light-heavyweight,
He was a perfect fighter in the British style, where as McAvoy was an all out box-fighter, hard hitter and knock-out puncher,
It was a styles thing and Jock's was the much more favoured in American rings! This is WELL documented, which brings us back to McAvoy...
The so called "big" fights your referring to which he lost(?), ALL had serious questions attached to them. J H Lewis, Marcel Thil and Mills and Harvey we've already commented on.
McAvoy was FROZEN-OUT of the World middleweight title, owing to his DESTUCTION of World middleweight title holder "Babe' Risko and although Risko isn't an historical name he went to town with some of the best known middles at the time over the full course, Steele, Apostilli, Dundee, Gorilla Jones, Yarosz, Conn and Joe Lynch, he was No mug.
So McAvoy fought the great John Henry Lewis, a man he shouldn't have been fighting, for the World light-heavyweight title and he went the distance with him.
Turn it around and ask "How would these other middles have "faired" against J H Lewis???
Marcel Thil "fouled" his way to victory in a French ring and I've read Thil made a living at such practices.(?)
McAvoy also took British heavyweight Champion Peterson the distance and again another fighter who doesn't get much thought these days was the "feared" Canadian/American light-heavy Al "kid" McCoy, whom McAvoy decisioned over 10, but sent him to the mat first. Al McCoy went on to challenge the "imortal" Joe Louis for the heavyweight title, so he was No mug either!!!
McAvoy was still a "formidable" foe in the 40's and this period (30's & 40's), GENERALLY" speaking is regarded as the "single" greatest period in Boxing history...
McAvoy is THOUGHT to be Britain's GREATEST middleweight and he WAS one of the MOST FEARED fighters in the World during this the Greatest Period!!!
I believe he would have "cleaned" up his American "middleweight" contemporaries,
So Who Wins??? McAvoy or Zale?
He was still British middleweight King untill 1944 even though he made No title defences since he was down to meet Bert Gilroy in 1940.
He DIDN"T get Ko'd by Mills in one round, it was a "technical" knockout owing to a sudden back injury during the open round,
In the first Mills' vs McAvoy fight Mills took the verdict on points after 10 close rounds.
In both Mills' and McAvoy's biographies they tell the same story of a young tiring Mills being "coached" on by the veteran McAvoy to "keep" going Son, keep going"...
Kind of sheds a new light on the Mills/McAvoy meetings,
the second fight "suddenly" finished before it even started, was an "eliminator" for the British light-heavyweight title,
And Mills fought and beat the even more aged "veteran" in Len Harvey for that title just 4 MONTHS later.
Mills was heavily backed$$$ and well STEARED and PROTECTED!!!
Which brings us to the McAvoy/Harvey "show-downs", Harvey a master in defence and probably Britains greatest light-heavyweight,
He was a perfect fighter in the British style, where as McAvoy was an all out box-fighter, hard hitter and knock-out puncher,
It was a styles thing and Jock's was the much more favoured in American rings! This is WELL documented, which brings us back to McAvoy...
The so called "big" fights your referring to which he lost(?), ALL had serious questions attached to them. J H Lewis, Marcel Thil and Mills and Harvey we've already commented on.
McAvoy was FROZEN-OUT of the World middleweight title, owing to his DESTUCTION of World middleweight title holder "Babe' Risko and although Risko isn't an historical name he went to town with some of the best known middles at the time over the full course, Steele, Apostilli, Dundee, Gorilla Jones, Yarosz, Conn and Joe Lynch, he was No mug.
So McAvoy fought the great John Henry Lewis, a man he shouldn't have been fighting, for the World light-heavyweight title and he went the distance with him.
Turn it around and ask "How would these other middles have "faired" against J H Lewis???
Marcel Thil "fouled" his way to victory in a French ring and I've read Thil made a living at such practices.(?)
McAvoy also took British heavyweight Champion Peterson the distance and again another fighter who doesn't get much thought these days was the "feared" Canadian/American light-heavy Al "kid" McCoy, whom McAvoy decisioned over 10, but sent him to the mat first. Al McCoy went on to challenge the "imortal" Joe Louis for the heavyweight title, so he was No mug either!!!
McAvoy was still a "formidable" foe in the 40's and this period (30's & 40's), GENERALLY" speaking is regarded as the "single" greatest period in Boxing history...
McAvoy is THOUGHT to be Britain's GREATEST middleweight and he WAS one of the MOST FEARED fighters in the World during this the Greatest Period!!!
I believe he would have "cleaned" up his American "middleweight" contemporaries,
So Who Wins??? McAvoy or Zale?
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TheRiverCityHippy
- Middleweight
- Posts: 8466
- Joined: 08 Mar 2014, 15:39
great post jim, thats a convincing argument and i have new found respect for mcavoy. but risko was no zale, tony zale was tough as teak and probably fought at a higher level.
the zale/ graziano matches were probably the most exciting trilogy of fights there`s ever been at any weight. and a lot of the reverance the middleweight division is held in probably stems from the wartime and early post war era`s of which zale is a major part.
the biggest attendance for a fight (although admittedly free admission) was one in which zale was fighting.
i know tony had a lot of early losses on his card but i think by the mid forties he had developed into a formidable fighter.
i`d probably lean towards zale but the mcavoy/ zale line up looks similar to the holyfield / marciano at 188, one hell of a fight!!
the zale/ graziano matches were probably the most exciting trilogy of fights there`s ever been at any weight. and a lot of the reverance the middleweight division is held in probably stems from the wartime and early post war era`s of which zale is a major part.
the biggest attendance for a fight (although admittedly free admission) was one in which zale was fighting.
i know tony had a lot of early losses on his card but i think by the mid forties he had developed into a formidable fighter.
i`d probably lean towards zale but the mcavoy/ zale line up looks similar to the holyfield / marciano at 188, one hell of a fight!!