KEEP YOUR EYES ON RAYNELL WILLIAMS

[ray's mom]

I don't think that is Ray's REAL mother. Shame on you for saying you are! Anyway, I digress... We are so proud of Raynell! TEAM USA! TEAM RAYNELL!

if you don't think this is raynell mom that's ok!

I'm just proud of Raynell! I personally know his mother Chrishana "Birdy" Williams. You must be his stepmom. I just didn't want anyone to steal his family's glory.

This go out to every one that got something to say i said that am his :) mother not mom just like some boys have 2 dads a father and a dad now am ray mother Clarice "Resse" Mccoy so if you know every thing then you know

[Dennis]

I'm sorry that Ray lost. I didn't see the bout, but from the way it sounds, he wasn't getting credit for a lot of his punches. That is why I don't like the current ESS. There is no way that Ray didn't land a punch in the 2nd round and only 7 in the whole 4 rounds.

I watched Andrade's last bout and there were 4 or 5 punches by Boo Boo and a couple by Balanov that clearly landed and did not get scored. I'm talking about punches that should have been seen by all the judges. This scoring system or at least the way it is being used is terrible.

[boxmel]

I'm sorry that Ray lost. I didn't see the bout, but from the way it sounds, he wasn't getting credit for a lot of his punches.

Ummm - how about watching the bout and then posting? I'll watch it tonight, too.

That is why I don't like the current ESS. There is no way that Ray didn't land a punch in the 2nd round and only 7 in the whole 4 rounds.

The current ESS is the same as the past ESS - winners are decided on the accepted score. 7 points is the accepted score - NOT the number of times the judges pushed the buttons - his individual score is much higher, trust me.

I

watched Andrade's last bout and there were 4 or 5 punches by Boo Boo and a couple by Balanov that clearly landed and did not get scored.

Would it have changed the outcome of the bout? Or just possibly made the accepted scores higher?

I'm talking about punches that should have been seen by all the judges.

The TV camera gave you all points of view from directly behind the judges?

This scoring system or at least the way it is being used is terrible.

This scoring system is the same as it has always been. The biggest difference I've seen is in the low scoring.

[Dennis]

Yes, the low scoring is ridiculous. I look forward to the scoring with each judge being separate. Yes, I know about the risk of judges being biased but you will be able to tell. I don't think anyone likes watching the boxing and seeing punches clearly land and the boxers don't get credit on the scoreboard. Watching these guys throw punches and then you see the scores of 9-7, 5-3 and the like for 4 round bouts. I think boxing will be better if the scores are higher. Boxers will realize that if they throw punches, the score will actually go up. When it doesn't it, it encourages the boxers to be frugile with their output.

At least that is the way I see it.

[boxmel]

I

look forward to the scoring with each judge being separate.

So you are in favor of the clicker-type raw scoring?

Yes, I know about the risk of judges being biased but you will be able to tell.

You can tell now what each judge is doing. And if you do individual scoring rather than accepted, a biased or cheating judge can force a winner and there won't be anything you can do about it.

I don't think anyone likes watching the boxing and seeing punches clearly land and the boxers don't get credit on the scoreboard.

Happens in local shows and tournaments across the U.S, not just the Olympics.

Watching these guys throw punches and then you see the scores of 9-7, 5-3 and the like for 4 round bouts.

Accepted. Not total times buttons pushed.

I think boxing will be better if the scores are higher. Boxers will realize that if they throw punches, the score will actually go up. When it doesn't it, it encourages the boxers to be frugile with their output.

I'll say it again - amateur boxers should NEVER be frugal with their output. You start out punching and you end punching. Period.

[therealPunchDrunk]

Mel, look at a few fights from the previous Olympics, or just read the scores they had back then. You keep talking about accepted scores, like we don't know that. The accepted scores were 2-3-4 times higher up until a year or two ago. They were throwing a lot back then, but not 2-3-4 times more than now, so something has changed, and not for the better. they need to go back to the old scoring guidelines within this system.

It's a good thing that training boxers is not what you do, because your view on tactics are pretty thoughtless. In fact it reminds me of the prejudices I'm met with by people who know nothing about(and therefore don't understand) boxing - "It's just two guys punching each other in the head"... Ummm, no it's not.

[boxmel]

they need to go back to the old scoring guidelines within this system.

From what I've been able to perceive, the guidelines change from tournament to tournament. The Worlds were scored high; the Olympics are almost in the basement.

It's a good thing that training boxers is not what you do, because your view on tactics are pretty thoughtless. In fact it reminds me of the prejudices I'm met with by people who know nothing about(and therefore don't understand) boxing -
Well - I certainly don't consider myself prejudiced. I'm sorry you do. I don't know anything about training boxers. My viewpoints are that of a judge and a computer technician. I can tell you the best way to score points from judging over 8,000 bouts - stay off the ropes and out of the corners; move in the middle of the ring in order to give all the judges a clear view of your punches; don't shoe-shine; don't foul - blah, blah, blah. How coaches use that information to train their boxers is up to them.

"It's just two guys punching each other in the head"... Ummm, no it's not.

You're right - and I don't think that way. But I will continue to state that in amateur boxing it is really important to throw as many punches as you can - and not only to the head. 8)

[therealPunchDrunk]

they need to go back to the old scoring guidelines within this system.

From what I've been able to perceive, the guidelines change from tournament to tournament. The Worlds were scored high; the Olympics are almost in the basement.

It's a good thing that training boxers is not what you do, because your view on tactics are pretty thoughtless. In fact it reminds me of the prejudices I'm met with by people who know nothing about(and therefore don't understand) boxing -
Well - I certainly don't consider myself prejudiced. I'm sorry you do. I don't know anything about training boxers. My viewpoints are that of a judge and a computer technician. I can tell you the best way to score points from judging over 8,000 bouts - stay off the ropes and out of the corners; move in the middle of the ring in order to give all the judges a clear view of your punches; don't shoe-shine; don't foul - blah, blah, blah. How coaches use that information to train their boxers is up to them.

"It's just two guys punching each other in the head"... Ummm, no it's not.

You're right - and I don't think that way. But I will continue to state that in amateur boxing it is really important to throw as many punches as you can - and not only to the head. 8)

Maybe I misunderstand what you're saying, because I'm pretty sure all these guys are actually able to throw many more punches than they do in these fights, if that was an advantage to them. I know I can manage about 200 punches per 2 minute round. Only problem is, I wouldn't be boxing much, doing it...

I didn't mean to imply you're prejudiced, sorry. I do feel your opinion of what boxing is about is... I don't even know what word to use... but it is not just about throwing as many punches as you can, there's a lot of different factors that play into when, and how many punches you should be throwing. If you're not landing and getting countered all the time, throwing more punches might not be the answer for instance.

If you look at the scoring over the last two years, there might be a few bumps up and down, but the general tendency has been a lower and lower score over time. The score at the Worlds was higher than now, but the score at the 2004 Olympics was much higher than at in Chicago. If they go any lower, they can put the outscore to 5 and never have it happen...

[boxmel]

Maybe I misunderstand what you're saying, because I'm pretty sure all these guys are actually able to throw many more punches than they do in these fights, if that was an advantage to them.

I agree. But it seems to me they should anyway - why is the decision made to not throw punches?

I know I can manage about 200 punches per 2 minute round. Only problem is, I wouldn't be boxing much, doing it...

And I ask you - would all 200 be legal effective punches that land with the white knuckle surface of the glove? I don't think so.

there's a lot of different factors that play into when, and how many punches you should be throwing. If you're not landing and getting countered all the time, throwing more punches might not be the answer for instance.

And that's tactical stuff I don't even think about because I'm not telling a boxer what to do. All I can tell you is what I SEE.

If you look at the scoring over the last two years, there might be a few bumps up and down, but the general tendency has been a lower and lower score over time. The score at the Worlds was higher than now, but the score at the 2004 Olympics was much higher than at in Chicago. If they go any lower, they can put the outscore to 5 and never have it happen...

Between you, me, the fence post, and AIBA - I haven't a clue what they are doing in this respect. Makes no sense to me.

[therealPunchDrunk]

I agree. But it seems to me they should anyway - why is the decision made to not throw punches?

Because:

And I ask you - would all 200 be legal effective punches that land with the white knuckle surface of the glove? I don't think so.

Don't you see that you answer your first question with the second quote?
It's not just throwing punches. The have to land, the have to register, and the other guy has to be incapable of puncing, or at least miss, at the same time. Throwing punches is the easy part of boxing, setting them up so they score, and protecting yourself at the same time is the hard part.

[boxmel]

Don't you see that you answer your first question with the second quote?
It's not just throwing punches. The have to land, the have to register, and the other guy has to be incapable of puncing, or at least miss, at the same time. Throwing punches is the easy part of boxing, setting them up so they score, and protecting yourself at the same time is the hard part

.

My bad for not going into detail. When I say "throwing punches" I mean they have to be everything you say done within the scoring criteria.

[therealPunchDrunk]

Don't you see that you answer your first question with the second quote?
It's not just throwing punches. The have to land, the have to register, and the other guy has to be incapable of puncing, or at least miss, at the same time. Throwing punches is the easy part of boxing, setting them up so they score, and protecting yourself at the same time is the hard part

.

My bad for not going into detail. When I say "throwing punches" I mean they have to be everything you say done within the scoring criteria.

And that is where the tactics come into play, and the exact reason you can't always just throw punches, and then throw some more. :)

[boxmel]

And that is where the tactics come into play, and the exact reason you can't always just throw punches, and then throw some more.

Sigh. And since I'm not a tactician, I'll have to concede to you in that area. Judges and coaches - they rarely see eye-to-eye.

[therealPunchDrunk]

And that is where the tactics come into play, and the exact reason you can't always just throw punches, and then throw some more.

Sigh. And since I'm not a tactician, I'll have to concede to you in that area. Judges and coaches - they rarely see eye-to-eye.

At least we can be civil about it. :)

I'd also like to think we're both learning something from this exchange of opinions and viewpoints.

[boxmel]

At least we can be civil about it.

I don't see any reason to not be civil. Adults can agree to disagree and still remain friendly. And we'd all be very boring if we thought alike. Yuck. 8)

I'd also like to think we're both learning something from this exchange of opinions and viewpoints.

Most definitely!

Besides, you've noticed I haven't posted to the "Sex Myth" discussion? I have absolutely NO expertise in that area.

[ray's mom]

this is rays mother and i got to say that am so proud of my baby :P no one will ever no how proud i am of him any one that seen that fight no they did not score that fight right but that's a part of life and he will move on thank everybody that helped out :) :) :) :) :) :)

[Kolya]

Is he going to stay amateur or go pro? Either way I look forward to seeing him again, he looked great and deserved to win that match.