Frankie Gavin offered pro debut on Hatton undercard

[Shirow]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/more-spor ... -20698110/

I'm not too up on the amateur scene & have never even seen Gavin box but this stinks of opportunism and nothing else. Surely November is too soon to have time to adjust to the pros and have anything like a meaning debut.

Discuss.

[JC]

Gavin's style of fighting is very geared toward the amateur system. I think this an odd idea as the casual fans will have forgotten who Gavin is by then and the hardcore would be just as eager to see him if he debuted in 2009.

I would have thought this would be a bad move for his development as a fighter without any real commercial advantage.

Just my thoughts, I'm no expert.

[Autobarn]

Would he want a US base with GBP? I would wait and see if GBP can develop a fighter. They have had some absolute disasters with guys like AJ Banal and Rey Bautista. Let's see if they can do things with Abner Mares, Daniel Jacobs, Victor Ortiz etc.

That said, I like the idea of a British fighter maybe learning his trade vs Mexicans and Mexican Americans who know how to look after themselves.

[charlieb]

I dont think you can blame GBP for Bautista and Banal losing. The british system of taking soft touches for god knows how long before stepping it up is probably why half our guys get taken apart when they finally have to sink or swim at the top level (sometimes a lot lower). I think a lot depends on the natural ability of the fighters involved and that should dictate the pace at which they're moved.

The sport as a whole needs to remove the stigma that losses currently carry with them. David Haye's a good example of a naturally talented fighter who was moved fast and had the framework behind him to regroup and get back into the fray without being locked out just because he'd lost a risky learning fight. It's not the case, but the same safety net should be in place for all natural talents like Bautista or whoever else a promoter is developing.

Of course, I'm not talking about stepping prospects up to ridiculous levels of adversity, but to a level where losing would at least involve a learning experience as opposed to a flat out demolition/outclassing. I dont think anyone saw Ponce de Leon pulling off a first round knockout, and I dont think anyone viewed Conception as the hurdle he turned out to be.

GBP have done a great job with Mares, Jacobs and particularly Ortiz (who is probably twice the fighter now, that he was when he turned pro).

As for Gavin, it's just his debut that we're talking about so it's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned, take it as soon as possible and if the opportunity to sign with GBP arises then give every other brit promotor the cold shoulder and grab the opportunity while it's there.

He's completely f*cked his 'medal money', so that shouldn't be a stumbling block for him, if it is and he does sign with the likes of Warren, then more the fool him.

If he looks like shit against low level opposition because he was 'geared to the amateur system', then that'll be evident early on and I'm sure the opportunity to do an 'Amir Khan' will still be there a few fights down the road.

[steve689]

Excellent post

[sweetscience]

he needs to sign with a UK promoter to get a fan base

[charlieb]

he needs to sign with a UK promoter to get a fan base

If he's got the goods, you dont think GBP could sell him?

[sweetscience]

he needs to sign with a UK promoter to get a fan base

If he's got the goods, you dont think GBP could sell him?

not really, the yanks only seem to get behind there own

[Autobarn]

I dont think you can blame GBP for Bautista and Banal losing. The british system of taking soft touches for god knows how long before stepping it up is probably why half our guys get taken apart when they finally have to sink or swim at the top level (sometimes a lot lower). I think a lot depends on the natural ability of the fighters involved and that should dictate the pace at which they're moved.

The sport as a whole needs to remove the stigma that losses currently carry with them. David Haye's a good example of a naturally talented fighter who was moved fast and had the framework behind him to regroup and get back into the fray without being locked out just because he'd lost a risky learning fight. It's not the case, but the same safety net should be in place for all natural talents like Bautista or whoever else a promoter is developing.

Of course, I'm not talking about stepping prospects up to ridiculous levels of adversity, but to a level where losing would at least involve a learning experience as opposed to a flat out demolition/outclassing. I dont think anyone saw Ponce de Leon pulling off a first round knockout, and I dont think anyone viewed Conception as the hurdle he turned out to be.

GBP have done a great job with Mares, Jacobs and particularly Ortiz (who is probably twice the fighter now, that he was when he turned pro).

As for Gavin, it's just his debut that we're talking about so it's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned, take it as soon as possible and if the opportunity to sign with GBP arises then give every other brit promotor the cold shoulder and grab the opportunity while it's there.

He's completely f*cked his 'medal money', so that shouldn't be a stumbling block for him, if it is and he does sign with the likes of Warren, then more the fool him.

If he looks like shit against low level opposition because he was 'geared to the amateur system', then that'll be evident early on and I'm sure the opportunity to do an 'Amir Khan' will still be there a few fights down the road.

There needs to be a balance between the two poles. Eddie Futch once said "In Britain they develop records, not fighters." So that's one extreme, even though you get that in America (and even thoughs ome Brits are developed sensibly). The other extreme is to put a raw kid like Bautista in with a massive puncher like De Leon. Banal was an even better prospect, but he was basically thrown into a world title bout too early. I haven't seen much development for those 2 Filipinos prior to their title shots, hence why I'm critical (if anything, Bautista's previous fight showed where he was at and how he should be handled).

Not sure how long GBP have had Jacobs, Ortiz and Mares. They surely didn't have them from the beginning (well, certainly not Mares anyway).

[Poncey]

GBP don't have Ortiz. Top Rank do?

Bautista wasn't badly managed, he had a belter with Medina and then got blown out by a hard rushing De Leon. McEwan and Dib are prime examples of GBP holding fighters back and Juarez is a prime example of them rushing a fighter too quickly so they're a bit mixed in their strategy.

[Autobarn]

Surely the Medina fight suggested, "Bautista's not ready for a title shot yet"?

Thought Ortiz was GBP but I could well be wrong.

The Haye-Thompson is a great example of how a fighter can learn from a loss, and so is Benn-Watson. However, these were not for world titles. Bautista and Banal weren't ready for world titles.

[Poncey]

I thought that was Bautista's peak TBH. He's never gonna beat a monster puncher like De Leon, or a great craftsman, so he got a world title out of it and a bit of money.

Ortiz was Top Rank in November when he fought Maussa, but as he fought on the DLH undercard...I might be wrong. He's not on their website (they're quite quick to put fighters up there and slow to take them down) as their fighter.

[Wales]

he needs to sign with a UK promoter to get a fan base

Craig Mcewan aint doing too badly with them

[El Raincoat]

Ortiz is with Golden Boy he was with Top Rank until the end of last year but after a falling out of sorts i believe he severed ties with Cameron Dunkin and Top Rank and moved to Golden Boy adebuted with them on De La Hoya-Forbes card.

Not a bad move for Gavin if he does go to America and fights with Golden Boy he'd get on there cards with Haye & Hatton in Britain too.

[twenty six]

That's the point sweetscience.
GBP are not just US based, they have a strong foothold in the UK market.
Seems ideal to me.
Exposure in the States, and a chance to build a fan base on UK shows - be it Haymaker or Punch Promotions.

[sweetscience]

That's the point sweetscience.
GBP are not just US based, they have a strong foothold in the UK market.
Seems ideal to me.
Exposure in the States, and a chance to build a fan base on UK shows - be it Haymaker or Punch Promotions.

strong foot hold in the UK market or strong foothold in Haye & Hatton ?

If Haye gets starched in his next bout and with Hatton on his way out where will GBP UK Market be ?? he should only sign for GBP if its an unbelievable offer or he will get promo in the UK for 50% of his fights

[twenty six]

What you're missing is that Setanta have a contract with Haymaker BEYOND David Haye fights.
As long as the stable builds (and we're seeing signs of that already) then there will be plenty of shows promoted by Haymaker, excluding David being on the bill, to go at.
Ricky is only just dipping his toe in the Promotional puddle - so let's wait and see.
Do you seriously only see Wazza as the answer for Gavin ?
How do you think Wazza would promote Gavin overseas ?

[sweetscience]

What you're missing is that Setanta have a contract with Haymaker BEYOND David Haye fights.
As long as the stable builds (and we're seeing signs of that already) then there will be plenty of shows promoted by Haymaker, excluding David being on the bill, to go at.
Ricky is only just dipping his toe in the Promotional puddle - so let's wait and see.
Do you seriously only see Wazza as the answer for Gavin ?
How do you think Wazza would promote Gavin overseas ?

i didnt mention SN, but obviously they are the best in UK so if i was Gavin id go with them unless GBP are throwning a shit load of money his way and are guanteeing a UK Billing so he can develope a fan base

[Poncey]

I agree with 26. GBP have the best of both worlds now with UK and US exposure at the same time. They have access to most of the best trainers in the world. They have access to the best sports channel in the world. They have access to the biggest group of fighters in the world, so matchmaking is easy, and good ties with the WBC.

My only concern is that GBP (not a dig at the UK branches, but the US one) tend to use their young stars to push forward the established stars and haven't managed any of them well IMO. Jordan hasn't done much yet (okay, he's old but new to the pro game), McEwan is taking an eternity to do anything and Juarez was throw in waay to deep too soon.

Gavin could end up on a US card to gain experience against different styles. This would be far more beneficial instead of fighting domestic tomato cans until he's 33-0, defend the WBU and/or WBO title several times face an established name past their best and then go to America in their biggest test and lose.

[Max Molyneux]

GBP are not just US based, they have a strong foothold in the UK market.

They've only helped promote Hatton's last uk fight really though.

DLH's name doesn't mean anything outside the US and to hardcore fans and boxer.

[whiteboy]

You would imagine SN would be very keen to get him onboard and having him Macklin & Broadhurst fighting in the NIA

[stujones]

GBP are not just US based, they have a strong foothold in the UK market.

They've only helped promote Hatton's last uk fight really though.

DLH's name doesn't mean anything outside the US and to hardcore fans and boxer.

Well no - they recently brought John Murray and a few others to the states. GBP might not have had a major impact on Hatton previously (Frank Maloney co-promoted Hatton vs Lazcano) but they will be heavily involved in the future.

[Autobarn]

What did GBP do to promote Hatton-Lazcano? Having their name attached to it wasn't even enough to get the fight on HBO.

[twenty six]

Max,
Do you not read posts ?
The Haymaker deal with Setanta does not kick in until September.
In addition Punch Promotions take their bow in the same month.
Both have links with GBP.
The time to judge whether GBP are any good on the UK domestic scene is AFTER a few promotions have taken place.
Like I've said before, it's a suck it and see situation.
If I was an up and coming boxer with a decent CV I would most defintely be looking for a Promotor who can deliver on the world scene not just the UK.
I have to be honest and say Wazza no longer ticks all the boxes.
When was the last time Wazza was actively involved in a non UK promotion ?

[Poncey]

Is there the possibility of GBP non-Hayemaker fighters, say from the US, being brought over for Hayemaker Prom cards, 26?

That would be cool.