Amateur Rules Reform Suggestion Forum

[therealPunchDrunk]

I think you're about right, a lot of people were bitching about the high scores. This is far worse, though...

[boxmel]

Basically, the higher scores of the past were causing accusations stating that those that merely "throw" and not necessarily land, loads of punches, are benefiting the most

Don't know about the accusations, but judging criteria states that you will not push the button until you see a legal effective, blah, blah, ACTUALLY LAND. So your above explanation isn't off.

...so in their infinite wisdom, the AIBA officials have obviously been briefed to score only what they are SURE they have seen. Of course, the old rule still applies to Chinese boxers (!!)...

See above re what they are supposed to do. I just think the Chinese got a good draw as opposed to the Russians and the US, and possibly others.

That's how it appears to me anyway. I can't recall seeing any RSC-Outclassed stoppages during this whole tournament.

I remember pre-Athens at the Thailand world champs, the scores were like 44-27 etc.

That looks like they were counting everything that was thrown, legal or not!

[boxmel]

Dennis - I checked with an AIBA friend of mine and he told me that the plan after the Olympics IS to use the individual scores in determining the winners and then announcing the scores as "5-0,
4-1, or 3-2."

I still don't like this. If a judge can continually push the button for one boxer, he can force a win. Yes, the jury will be able to see this and, yes, the judge may get suspended for the rest of the tournament and yes, the wrong boxer might have won. We'll just have to wait and see how this pans out.

[Kolya]

Wouldn't they still have back up paper scoring to go to though?

[boxmel]

There will always be back up paper scoring. But the paper scoring is used ONLY if the computer goes down. If it doesn't, the cards are shredded after each bout and have no impact on the bout.

[Grey]

I've been trying to be optimistic about the system as well, but when that Thai fighter this morning got a point for a punch that the ref called illegal, I cringed.

Grey - I haven't had a chance to look at yesterday's bouts, but I've seen a few bouts this week where a punch has been thrown and landed and at the same time the ref gives the boxer a caution for slapping, points pop up. This can happen if the judge doesn't wait until he sees the punch land. Did the point the Thai boxer got impact the decision in any way?

Mel -- Sorry it took me long to reply to this, but the Thai fighter lost anyway. The punch that landed was a shot to the kidneys I believe.

[therealPunchDrunk]

I remember pre-Athens at the Thailand world champs, the scores were like 44-27 etc.

That looks like they were counting everything that was thrown, legal or not!

I disagree. They threw more in those fights, because you'd be rewarded for doing so. I definitely don't think 5-10 landed punches per round for the winning boxer is unrealistic. They throw far more punches than that. Or at least they did, which I would have thought would be to your liking?

[Canada]

At the 2004 Euros there was a fight that was 65-41

[therealPunchDrunk]

That's probably a bit excessive...

[boxmel]

I disagree. They threw more in those fights, because you'd be rewarded for doing so.

True.

I definitely don't think 5-10 landed punches per round for the winning boxer is unrealistic.

Me, either.

They throw far more punches than that. Or at least they did, which I would have thought would be to your liking?

I find an accepted score of 44-27 only slightly less excessive than 65-41.

[therealPunchDrunk]

[quote="boxmel]

I definitely don't think 5-10 landed punches per round for the winning boxer is unrealistic.

Me, either.

They throw far more punches than that. Or at least they did, which I would have thought would be to your liking?

I find an accepted score of 44-27 only slightly less excessive than 65-41. [/quote]
Hmm.... 65-41 is more than 16 punches per round for the winner, and more than 10 for the loser.
44-27 is 11 points per round for the winner, and less than 7 for the loser. If you agree that the winner can get 10 points per round, I don't see your problem with 11, unless you've actually seen the fight, and it was a snoozer. Also, 65-41 is a total of 106 punches, 44-27 is a total of 71. That's 50% added, which is a lot.
In short, 44-27 is within the range of what you agreed is reasonable, 65-41 is 50% above that, so not slightly more, but a lot more...

[emile]

Change to 3x3 is now official, after an Executive meeting. They are also going to push women's boxing for the Olympics, which is good because it is very deserving to be a part of the games.

Not sure what a scoring jury means in this context. One report had this to say. Can't imagine what a more sophisticated device might be. There was also some silliness about a professional team league, which is really not where AIBA needs to be pooling their efforts at the moment, IMO.

Those concerns have been assuaged by Wu's more transparent presidency, with the IOC praising the sport's reform, even after complaints about the judging in Beijing.

Wu expressed disappointment with the complaints from the US, Ukraine, Russia, Britain and other nations over results and overall scoring criteria.

"I hoped everybody would show good sportsmanship," Wu said, noting only two formal protests had been filed.

The AIBA is developing a more sophisticated device to be used in its ringside computer scoring, with hopes of introducing it before next year's world championships in Milan, Italy.

New AIBA Technical and Competition Rules were approved to come into effect on September 1, 2008 including the following key changes:
- change of rounds from four of two minutes to three of three minutes (effective from January 1, 2009).
- removal of scoring jury
- change of weight categories for women and youth girls to be aligned more closely with men to feature 11 weight categories: 46 kg 48 kg, 51 kg, 54 kg, 57 kg, 60 kg, 64 kg, 69 kg, 75 kg, 81 kg and +81 kg (effective from January 1, 2009).

• The AIBA Executive Committee announced its full support for including women's boxing in the 2012 Olympic Games and agreed to develop a proposal and submit it to the IOC in the coming months.

[boxmel]

In short, 44-27 is within the range of what you agreed is reasonable, 65-41 is 50% above that, so not slightly more, but a lot more...

44-27 accepted score is ridiculous - unless I'm not getting what you mean. If that equates to a 10 or more accepted score, then it makes sense. I'm not good at that kind of match so you have a definite advantage.

New AIBA Technical and Competition Rules were approved to come into effect on September 1, 2008 including the following key changes:
- change of rounds from four of two minutes to three of three minutes (effective from January 1, 2009).

Knew that already. 8) Just didn't know it wasn't effective until 1/1/09.

- removal of scoring jury

Whatever in the heck that means!!! Guess the new scoring plans will include some kind of accountability and "cheating/manipulating" safeguard. I sincerely hope so.

-• The AIBA Executive Committee announced its full support for including women's boxing in the 2012 Olympic Games and agreed to develop a proposal and submit it to the IOC in the coming months.

They have been blathering that statement since 2000. And in order to do so, the men's weights will have to be cut. I don't believe the IOC has given additional slots just for the women. It didn't happen when women's wrestling was added.

Yeah - AIBA has this big idea to become honest pro promoters who will take care of, and not rip off, the amateurs turning pro. Wu's backer in this is Jose Suliman - does that tell you something? And the thing Wu does not understand is that boxers will go with whoever gives them the biggest $$$$ and unless Suliman is willing to dish out big bucks, AIBA will be a very little fish in a very large pond of sharks.

[Kolya]

Well, Mel; Baseball and Softball are both out of the Olympics in 2012. With them gone it could free up enough spots for women's boxing. I just wish Amy would be eligible for 2012. :(

[therealPunchDrunk]

Mel, I said 5-10 points per round for the winning fighter was a reasonable number. You agreed. 10 points per round is 40 points, 44-27 is slightly above that. Without having seen the particular fight (could be a very high paced, action fight), saying that the score is ridiculous because it is 4 points above what you agreed was reasonable seems a little.. hmm... unbalanced?

[Dennis]

Mel's math is a little off.

I hate the low scoring as the boxers have an incentive to not throw punches which makes for boring bouts. Get the scores up and reward boxers for being active. Lets try to promote change that will make boxing more exciting and make people want to watch. Two guys standing around staring at each other and being cautioned by the ref for not "boxing" isn't doing it.

[boxmel]

Well, Mel; Baseball and Softball are both out of the Olympics in 2012. With them gone it could free up enough spots for women's boxing.

Doesn't work that way. The open sports will be filled with new Olympic sports. Baseball is lobbying for inclusion starting in 2016, as is golf - can't remember the others.

I just wish Amy would be eligible for 2012.

She'll be too old, huh.

[boxmel]

Mel's math is a little off.

Math is not one of my strong areas - at all. And I can definitely be periodically unbalanced.

[Dennis]

They can get rid of some of the "games" that aren't sports, but it is called the Olympic Games so I guess they don't have to be sports. Examples are badminton and table tennis. Archery and shooting could go to. Handball is a sport, but I could see it being removed.

[emile]

They need to cut about 25% of the swimming, get rid of beach volleyball and synchronized diving. Go from there.

[Canada]

OMG I know!! Its ridiculous how many swimming events there are. A guy should never be able to win 8 medals in the same olympics. Dont even get me started on sailing, syncronized swimming,horse riding....

[Dennis]

Oh no, not synchronized diving! I was hoping that we could implement synchronized boxing for 2012. At the pace of most of the boxers in the '08 Olympics, it wouldn't be too hard to synchronize.

[Dennis]

Sailing - there is another one.

[emile]

I don't mind archery, shooting, sailing, some equestrian stuff - it's sports that harken back to ancient times.

Now trampolining - I'm pretty sure they didn't have that in Ancient Greece.

[Dennis]

I don't mind archery, shooting, sailing, some equestrian stuff - it's sports that harken back to ancient times.

Now trampolining - I'm pretty sure they didn't have that in Ancient Greece.

Is that a sport at the Olympics? If so, I'm glad I missed the coverage of that event.